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Topic: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing (Read 2 times) previous topic - next topic
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Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Yahoo Message Number: 112024
I was excited to get on the reservation list for the Nissan Leaf tonight!
 But a chat with Nissan confirmed that the Leaf can only be towed with NO wheels turning- only on a flatbed trailer.

Just sharing,

Tessa in TX '92 MB - Ciao Baby!
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112027
As far as I know, no current or planned electric or hybrid can be towed "four down."
 Meanwhile, I noted this afternoon that in my most recent 850 miles of driving (much of it in mountainous New Mexico terrain), my 2009 Honda Fit has averaged 48.9 mpg. You don't have to buy an electric or hybrid to get good fuel economy.
 The Fit has other advantages over the Leaf as well: it has four times the range, it costs half as much, and it won't require a $15,000 battery pack replacement a few years down the road.

And of course it can be towed four down. :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112029
Andy,
 At least some years of the Ford Escape Hybrid can be towed 4 down.  It is a bit on the heavy side though for LDs.

Alex Rutchka, SE #4 '05 MB
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112032
Quote from: teresadhill
I was excited to get on the reservation list for the Nissan Leaf tonight! =========================== Tessa - will you be putting in a 40 amp dedicated circuit to charge your Leaf?

Anne Johnson

Lovely (Raining!) La Verne, CA
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112048
Well you raise many fine points, Andy.  I'm very impressed with your gas mileage- 48.9 mpg is substantially higher than the 35 mpg highway I read online.  Are you hypermiling?
 Also, I see it does hold 5 people.  Do you think it's reasonably sized to carry the 5 of us on runabouts since 3 of 4 are bigger than me now?  If so, it is a definite contender!

I thought you'd enjoy this rather strange and delightful link: http://automobiles.honda.com/2009-fit/

Anne, the reservation for the Leaf is just a place-holder
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112052
"I'm very impressed with your [Honda Fit's] gas mileage - 48.9 mpg is substantially higher than the 35 mpg highway I read online. Are you hypermiling?"
 I read a little about that, and it sounds like a potentially dangerous game. No, I'm just driving normally. My normal driving style is fairly conservative, but I'm not going to the kinds of gas-saving extremes generally labeled as "hypermiling." I've tracked the Fit's gas mileage pretty carefully over the 5,000+ miles I've driven the car, and it has averaged between 43 and 49 mpg.
 I attribute the high gas mileage I'm getting to the fact that very little of my driving is within cities--in other words, while I may be going up and down hills, I'm not doing stop-and-go driving, which is what really kills gas mileage. In city traffic, a hybrid car would probably do better. But most of my trips in the Fit are of the "drive fifteen miles from the campground into town for groceries" type, and even if those fifteen miles are on curving mountain roads, there are few stops. That seems to make the difference between what I'm getting and what the EPA's tests (which are conducted on a stationary dynamometer) show.

"I'm in love with that Leaf being all-electric"
 That sounds attractive, I agree. But when buying an electric car (or a mostly-electric hybrid like the Chevy Volt), you have to look at the whole picture: the total cost of owership or "TCO." Manufacturers of these cars love to quote insanely high mpg figures--230 mpg is claimed for the Volt--but these numbers are deliberately misleading, because they assume that electricity is free. As we all know, it isn't.
 To determine the TCO of a car like the Leaf, you have to factor in not only its high initial price, and the cost of the home charging station, and the roughly $15,000 cost of replacing the massive battery pack every few years (Nissan is being coy about this, but industry experts estimate $12,000-$25,000 for the Leaf's batteries)... but also the cost of the electricity needed to charge the car on a daily basis.
 The real question with the Leaf is: How many miles will you get per kilowatt hour? The EPA has no test in place for this, and the car manufacturers are doing their best not to make it easy for you to find out, because they'd rather tell you you'll get a zillion milles per gallon.
 Bear in mind that not only does the electricity that goes into the Leaf's battery pack cost you money, it also carries a cost in pollution. How was it generated? Coal? Nuclear power? Those are the most common sources.
 Next consider that on average, about a quarter of the generated electricity is lost between the powerplant and the end user, due to resistance in transmission lines. And changing the electricity into chemical energy (which is what you do when you charge a battery), and then back into electricity to run the car, involves still more losses. By contrast, very little gasoline is lost between the time it leaves the refinery and when it enters your engine's fuel injectors.
 I wish I could give you a concrete example, comparing a small electric car like the Leaf with a small gasoline-powered car like the Fit, but as I said, meaningful numbers are very hard to come buy for electric vehicles. It's not in Nissan's interest to make it easy for you to compare total cost of ownnership, because that might just expose the Leaf as an expensive prestige item that actually creates more pollution than a ULEV (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) car like the Fit. I say "might" because I just don't know... for now, at least, the Leaf's actual cost of operation is shrouded in mystery.
 You get the point: it's not safe to assume that "electric = good," or economical, or low-pollution. Electric vehicles *may* turn out to be a good thing in the long run... but for now, a healthy dose of skepticism is called for.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Fit for five?
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112053
"I see [the Honda Fit] does hold 5 people.  Do you think it's reasonably sized to carry the 5 of us on runabouts since 3 of 4 are bigger than me now?  If so, it is a definite contender!"
 It certainly has the seating (and the added storage space for a bunch of gear)... but the only way you can be sure your family will be comfortable in one is to find a Fit and sit in it. :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112061
"I wish I could give you a concrete example, comparing a small electric car like the Leaf with a small gasoline-powered car like the Fit, but as I said, meaningful numbers are very hard to come buy for electric vehicles.

Andy
 This discussion has been going on for years in the automotive circles and I have never seen a good breakdown of the operating cost of an electric car compared to a gas powered one.
The number guys have manipulated the mileage ratings to the point they mean little.
http://gm-volt.com/2010/04/19/chevy-volts-230-mpg-rating-will-be-reduced/> I have always considered electric cars to be petroleum-powered vehicles with their exhaust pipes many miles away in someone else's backyard. Over half of the US's power is generated by burning fossil fuel.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=us_energy_home> To pay 25K for a car that cannot venture more than 40-50 miles away from home is unthinkable here in SoCal and we are a small state compared to Texas. Even if the car was so cheap that you could afford one for local use, you still have the expense of insuring, depreciation, degrading (battery has a limited life) and garaging it.
For the best economy, its hard to beat a Fit, Yaris, Cube or Scion and their environmental impacts may be the same or better than a electric car if the source of the electricity is taken in consideration.
 If you want a battery-powered car for around town and high mileage on the road, the new generation of plug-in hybrids will fill the bill, at a cost. Who said that economy comes cheap?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt> BTW, GM has not announced a price on the Chevy Volt, evidently preferring to wait for a peak in gas prices.
It is rumored to cost in the mid to high 30K range.

Another thing you mentioned Andy was battery replacement.
What is going to happen to the millions of batteries when they go bad? Will hybrid-owners rip out the dead battery to lighten the load that the undersized gas engine needs to pull? Will the all-electric cars and hybrid be scrapped out at an early age?  Doesn't sound very green to me but I'm the type that likes to drive a car almost into the ground.
As it stands, no one can say if all-electrics are a good environmental or economical choice at this time.

Larry Thinking that the early Toyota Prius batteries should be nearing the end of their lives
2001 MB
* Not to be confused with Larry W (3000 of my posts are actually from expert Larry W due to Yahoo transition mis-step)
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112082
What gets me in all this to-do over auto gas mileage these days is that there has been so little progress in the past 20 years.  Back in 1991 I bought a Dodge (Mitsibushi) Colt hatchback that routinely gave me 45 mpg.
It had lots of room inside, was comfortable, and had plenty of get-up-and-go.  I drove it for ten years as my commuter car, selling it when I retired.  Wish I still had it to use as a toad!

Ted H.

'05 RB  NE-13

@ Mahlon Dickerson Reservation, NJ

I've tracked the Fit's gas mileage pretty carefully over the 5,000+ miles I've driven the car, and it has averaged between 43 and 49 mpg.

Andy Baird

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Nissan Leaf- only flatbed towing
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 112083
Ted I think that has a lot to do with there is just so much energy in a gallon of gas. But all the manufactures get to a certain point then start adding bulk back into their vehicles.
I bought my daughter a new Ford Escort in 87 and it got better mileage than her professors Honda Civic around 37.  200,000 trouble free miles except for one bad plug wire caused by a mechanic. Then they started putting automatics in all of them and eventually up sized to the Focus.
And my 88  Ford Bronco II gets better mileage than the new "Fuel Efficient" Ford Escape.

Garry