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Topic: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage? (Read 6 times) previous topic - next topic
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HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Yahoo Message Number: 111502
I wasn't sure which setting to use on my controller, Dry Camp or Shore Power, when in storage outside so I e-mailed Dave Reurter at AM Solar. Thought I'd pass his response along to those who might be interested.

Dave says: "Make sure the batteries are fully charged before you put the rig in storage then put the place the HPV-22B switch in the "shore power" position.  Fully charged means they have have been brought up to 14.3V and kept there for a number of hours.  If you are charging the batteries by way of the solar then full charged is when (in dry camp mode) the charge light is pulsing.  If you are charging the batteries with an inverter charger then fully charged is when the inverter goes into float mode.
 By following this procedure you have full batteries that are kept full by way of the float charge from the HPV-22B."

Hope this helps,

David G
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111505
Quote
I wasn't sure which setting to use on my controller, Dry Camp or Shore Power, when in storage outside so I e-mailed Dave Reurter at AM Solar. Thought I'd pass his response along to those who might be interested.

Dave says: "Make sure the batteries are fully charged before you put the rig in storage then put the place the HPV-22B switch in the "shore power" position.  Fully charged means they have have been brought up to 14.3V and kept there for a number of hours.  If you are charging the batteries by way of the solar then full charged is when (in dry camp mode) the charge light is pulsing.  If you are charging the batteries with an inverter charger then fully charged is when the inverter goes into float mode.
 By following this procedure you have full batteries that are kept full by way of the float charge from the HPV-22B."

Hope this helps,

David G
No, David, it doesn't help; it's got me confused - which is easy  when talking about things electrical.  I have the HPV-22B and have always understood "shore power" and "dry camp" to mean exactly what they say, i.e., if I am connected to shore power, then I switch to shore power, understanding that even if the bats are discharged a bit, they will be charged soon.  Conversely, if I am not connected to shore power, I switch to dry camp and let the solar panels do their jobs.  Even if I were under cover, sans sun, and not connected to shore power, I would switch to dry camp.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111517
In an LD there are potentially multiple charge sources. If you have an HPV-22B, one of them has two settings. they are all hooked together in parallel. So the answer is, it depends.

The sources line up sort of like this...

HPV dry camp setting in bright sun:  14.6 v max HPV on shore power setting in bright sun:  13.2 v Shore power converter on:  13.6 V Truck alternator running: 13.8 -14.2 (this varies a lot)
 The highest voltage source present from those above, wins the race and sets the ultimate charge voltage. If you do not have the "B" model, there is no shore power setting. The non-B model is always in dry camp mode.
 For long term storage, somewhere around 13.6 is ideal.  So if it is convenient to have shore power connected, I would use that and turn the HPV completely off (or pull the fuse for the non-B HPV).  At 13.6, battery water consumption will be minimal.  Obviously if your LD is stored outside, the sunlight will vary quite a bit. So if no shore power is available, I think I would leave it on the dry camp setting and let the normal solar cycle take care of it. You will have to watch the battery water level. This will also depend on how much sunlight you actually get (arizona desert vs oregon rainforest).
 In my case, the vehicle is stored in a garage on my property, so I can easily plug it in to shore power, and I turn the HPV completely off (unless I want to read the battery voltage from the display).  I have no personal experience with outdoor storage, since I avoided that requirement.  But that is what I *think* I would do, if forced to store outside for a season.  Indiana is pretty gray over the winter.
 I think this topic being confusing for many folks, is why LD does not include the HPV "B" model in their vehicles. It was annoying to me, but that is LD for you.  Personally, I upgraded mine for the on/off switch more than the shore/dry switch.
 Everything here assumes flooded cell batteries are used (standard T105). If you have changed to a different battery technology (AGM, etc) you will have to adjust all the charge points for optimum coverage.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis

Quote
 
 No, David, it doesn't help; it's got me confused - which is easy  when talking about things electrical.  I have the HPV-22B and have always understood "shore power" and "dry camp" to mean exactly what they say, i.e., if I am connected to shore power, then I switch to shore power, understanding that even if the bats are discharged a bit, they will be charged soon.  Conversely, if I am not connected to shore power, I switch to dry camp and let the solar panels do their jobs.  Even if I were under cover, sans sun, and not connected to shore power, I would switch to dry camp.
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111519
Chris, David's question and Dave Reuter's answer refer to a rig "in storage outside," whereas you're talking about "under cover, sans sun." That's an important difference.
 In your scenario it doesn't matter how you set the controller, because the solar charging system isn't functioning.
 But in David's scenario--outside storage--leaving the controller in "dry camping" mode while there's no appliance use to drain them could result in overcharging the batteries and/or boiling off electrolyte over a period of weeks or months in storage.
 That's why Dave Reuter advises using the "shore power" setting in that situation. That setting reduces the controller's charging voltage to one that is just sufficient to keep the batteries topped off without overcharging them.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111520
Great explanation Andy. I didn't respond myself because I really wasn't positive about the correct answer. I suspected this was the reason, but didn't want to throw inaccurate info out there.

Thanks, David G.
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111522
Chris,
 If you are under cover, sans sun, not connected to shore power, you should turn the on/off switch to off.  The other switch can be left in either position. These controllers typically draw 100 - 200 ma which adds to your "phantom current" and run your batteries down  that much faster.
If you don't have an on/off switch, (such as the HPV-22) best to pull the fuse to the battery under those conditions.
 When I installed my BZ MPPT 250 controller, I added 2 switches externally, (1) on/off to the battery and (2) a center off series/off/parallel switch to the panels.

Rich - Birch Bay, WA
Former 2000 MB- Now Bullet Crossfire 1800RB trailer pulled by a Chevy 2500HD
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111588
Quote
HPV dry camp setting in bright sun: 14.6 v max HPV on shore power setting in bright sun: 13.2 v Shore power converter on: 13.6 V Truck alternator running: 13.8 -14.2 (this varies a lot)
If you do not have the "B" model, there is no shore power setting. The non-B model is always in dry camp mode.

Quote
For long term storage, somewhere around 13.6 is ideal. So if it is
convenient to have shore power connected, I would use that and turn the HPV completely off (or pull the fuse for the non-B HPV). At 13.6, battery water consumption will be minimal. Obviously if your LD is stored outside, the sunlight will vary quite a bit. So if no shore power is available, I think I would leave it on the dry camp setting and let the normal solar cycle take care of it. You will have to watch the battery water level.
 Well, I'm happy to finally have a cogent explanation of the readouts on the HPV22 (non-B) on my '06TK.  At the same time, I'm dismayed to learn that those "great" 14.6 readings I've been getting for the last 3 years have probably fried my batteries.  We store at a remote facility for several months at a time, outside, with no AC available, and have one 100w solar panel that was installed by the factory.  I've been diligent about ensuring the two Trojan batteries have been properly watered (using the ProFill) during my biweekly checks while it is in storage.
Also during each check, I drive the rig around for about half an hour.
The rig is three years old last month (delivered in March of '07 on an '06 chassis), and at the recent dry-camp get-together at Lake Cachuma we experienced the whiff of impending battery demise.  With a full charge during the day (14.6 reading at day's end, and "full charge" indicated on both the HPV and the factory's light panel), we had one fluorescent light on and turned on the water pump;  the light dimmed while the pump was running.  The next morning, we tried running our portable 400w inverter to power our coffee mill (which in years past we have done with no problem); as soon as the mill was activated, both the inverter and the mill stopped altogether.  We could run just lights without a problem (minimal draw), but anything requiring extra power resulted in a brown or black out.  Checking the batteries with a portable meter showed about 12.6 the next morning.

So, that's the long background.  I'll probably buy new batteries, especially as we are about to take off on a two month trip, but I'd like to get more than 3 years of life out of them.  What to do?
 Obviously, one solution is to upgrade to the 22B to avoid the "always in dry-camp mode (thus 14.6)" of the 22.  I'm assuming (??) that when I put the rig in outside storage I could then set the switch to "shore power" so that it would stay at the safer 13.2v level.  Correct?
 OR, is there any other solution?  If I kept the 22 and didn't upgrade, would it help to leave something small running all the time or would that be meaningless to this problem of high charging level?
 OR, should I just disconnect the batteries (I have the factory battery disconnect switch) and rely on the biweekly run-around to keep them topped up?

Hey, I was a humanities major.  I know nothing about this stuff!

--Jon ('06TK "Albatross")

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(Former) ‘06 TK “Albatross.” And (former) Vespa 250.   Alas, no more; both are gone.😕 Great memories remain! 😄
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111590
Quote
was running.  The next morning, we tried running our portable 400w inverter to power our coffee mill (which in years past we have done with no problem); as soon as the mill was activated, both the inverter and the mill stopped altogether.  We could run just lights without a problem (minimal draw), but anything requiring extra power resulted in a brown or black out.  Checking the batteries with a portable meter showed about 12.6 the next morning.

So, that's the long background.  I'll probably buy new batteries, especially as we are about to take off on a two month trip, but I'd like to get more than 3 years of life out of them.  What to do?
Jon, I checked our Delonghi coffee mill, and it is rated at 85W. This is about equivalent to operating three fluorescent lamp fixtures. I still don't suspect your batteries as the problem, but more likely a bad connection somewhere. A reading of 12.6 V after overnight use seems pretty normal to me. Most likely any evaporation due to your high solar charge voltage was compensated by your Profill system.
 Since you call the inverter 'portable', I assume it connects via a cigarette lighter plug. If so, these can cause resistive connections that will drop the input voltage to the inverter, forcing it to cut out with even a small load. You should observe the actual battery voltage when you have a problem. Certainly the voltage would have to drop below 11 Volts to be the cause of the converter stopping. I think you'll find it stays well above 12V, and the batteries are not the problem. Also check all the fuses and connections in the converter fusebox.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: HPV-22B - Shore Power or Dry Camp setting when in storage?
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 111592
Hi Jon,
 Our 2005 MB has two 85 watt panels and did have a HPV-22.  It sits outside all the time.  Typical voltage from the HPV-22 on a bright day was 14.3 volts.
 Last fall at Live Oak our 5-year old batteries started acting like yours.  Our Link 10 meter, portable meter, etc. indicated that they were charged but even with a small load, the voltage fell rapidly to discharge levels.  At home I put them on my 3-stage deep cycle charger and they would "charge" but they really weren't absorbing energy.  The specific gravity would never rise to the point where it should be.

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I'll probably buy new batteries ..........
Before buying new batteries I would measure the specific gravity of the cells with a hydrometer to see how much charge they actually contain.  Can probably get it done at a local battery shop or buy a hydrometer ($10 ?) and do it yourself.  Should be done when you think the batteries are fully charged.

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Obviously, one solution is to upgrade to the 22B.....
We did this in January 2010, right after I replaced my batteries.  AM Solar has (or at least had) a "trade-in deal" for exchanging the HPV-22 for the HPV-22B.  If I recall correctly the price of a new HPV-22B was $275 and they gave you a trade-in of $125 for the HPV-22.  Before doing the trade-in, however, they need you to send them the HPV-22 for "evaluation."  Swapping the two units is a "15-minute, screw driver only" task.  The guy to talk to at AM Solar is(was?)Roger.

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Would it help to leave something small running all the time or would that be meaningless to this problem of high charging level?
I don't think that this would help a lot. To keep from driving current into the batteries, the thing would have to soak up all the current being produced by the solar panel. Don't know how much this is from a single 100 watt panel.  From my two 85 watt panels it could be 4 or 5 amps.

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OR, should I just disconnect the batteries and rely on the biweekly run-around to keep them topped up?
With the battery disconnected you eliminate the "parasitic load" of the propane detector, etc. (Mine measures close to 1 amp.)  The batteries, however, will have some "self discharge" but I don't have a feel for how much or how much driving you would have to do to restore it.  You might have to try it and keep monitoring the specific gravity to make sure that the batteries are staying charged.
 An output of 14.6 volts from the HPV-22 is pretty high.  Our friends (also 2005 MB) had that kind of output.  After about 3-years his Trojans started to bulge and then developed "charging problems."

Doug