Refinishing cabinets January 15, 2010, 09:47:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 109201I am making a table for the rear lounge of our MB. I have done several wood projects over the years that had a varnish finish. Sometimes the finish came out good, sometimes not so good. I always said that's what sandpaper is for. I asked a friend of ours for tips on finishing this project. His projects are always perfect as far as we are concerned. He suggested a varnish rub. He Goggled and found the common recipe is three parts paint thinner [Mineral spirits] to two parts varnish [polyurethane]After six coats, it's starting to look real good! If you have any nicks, scratches on your cabinets, I suggest you get a can of Miniwax's Golden Pecan stain and the makings for varnish rub. Remove the existing varnish with, say 00, steel wool. Then stain and rub on several coats of varnish using say 0000 in between coats.Thanks to Ted H for finding the stain. It's 98% dead on the factory color.Cheers, Don
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #1 – January 15, 2010, 11:10:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 109206QuoteIf you have any nicks, scratches on your cabinets, I suggest you get a can of Miniwax's Golden Pecan stain and the makings for varnish rub. Remove the existing varnish with, say 00, steel wool. Then stain and "Maple in the yellow can" is what the parts guy gave on my last trip to LD. I assume that is Minwax. Looks real close to that Golden Pecan.Joe Hamm
Re: Refinishing cabinets - Minwax Golden Pecan stain Reply #2 – January 15, 2010, 11:46:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 109208Quote I am making a table for the rear lounge of our MB. I have done several wood projects over the years that had a varnish finish. Sometimes the finish came out good, sometimes not so good. I always said that's what sandpaper is for. I asked a friend of ours for tips on finishing this project. His projects are always perfect as far as we are concerned. He suggested a varnish rub. He Goggled and found the common recipe is three parts paint thinner [Mineral spirits] to two parts varnish [polyurethane]After six coats, it's starting to look real good! If you have any nicks, scratches on your cabinets, I suggest you get a can of Miniwax's Golden Pecan stain and the makings for varnish rub. Remove the existing varnish with, say 00, steel wool. Then stain and rub on several coats of varnish using say 0000 in between coats.Thanks to Ted H for finding the stain. It's 98% dead on the factory color.Cheers, Don
Re: Refinishing cabinets - Minwax Golden Pecan stain Reply #3 – January 15, 2010, 12:05:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109209Hi Chris,Coming to you from Dorothy's Mac.My friend uses old CLEAN tshirts, so am I. I cut out a 3x3 square. I would use the same for the stain. I do not suggest diluting the stain. I was only talking about using the varnish rub as the top coat, over the stain. The varnish will protect the stain from water and make it look original. As always, dust control is in order while the material dries. PS I used high gloss varnish, but since it's diluted, I doubt that one could tell the difference if you used a low gloss. The factory finish is not high gloss.DonP double S It warmed up here today! Yippy!
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #4 – January 15, 2010, 02:05:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109213I am familiar with rubbing stain on but I don't understand the "Varnish rub" concept? Could you please elaborate on this? Be well. Dale.__
Re: Refinishing cabinets - Minwax Golden Pecan stain Reply #5 – January 15, 2010, 02:12:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109214I noticed that maybe there are different colors of sta
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #6 – January 15, 2010, 08:38:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109218"Rubs" or "wipe-on" finishes are usually just regular finish, such as varnish or polyurethane that is thined down with mineral spirits (typically). As a result, as one respondent noted, it takes more coats to build up the finish. Miniwax's "Wipe On Poly" is a durable, easy to apply finish that I've used on my exotic wood lamps for 8 years. Later, after the finish is cured (dried) well one can use a good wood wax such as Howard's to keep a fine surface. Happy Finishing. JB
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #7 – January 15, 2010, 11:04:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109219For what it's worth, I have a different point of view on finishing cabinetry. (This is something I learned from my father, who's made a lifelong hobby of refinishing two-hundred-year-old solid cherry and maple furniture.) I don't like glossy finishes; they look plastic to me. I especially don't like finishes that just sit on top of the wood, such as polyurethane or most varnishes. And while I did use a stain on Skylark's pantry cabinet, because I had to match Lazy Daze's fake-pecan paneling, I normally don't stain wood. I want to see its natural color. My ideal is a hand-rubbed linseed oil satin finish--natural wood with a glow, but not a gloss. But I frankly don't have the patience for the standard linseed oil rule of thumb--"rub in a coat of oil once a day for a week, once a week for a month, and once a year from then on." What I learned from my father was to use a resin-loaded penetrating oil finish such as Watco Danish Oil Finish. (I used to use Minwax Antique Oil Finish, a similar penetrating oil product, but it's hard to find nowadays.) The oil sinks deep into the wood--it's not just a surface coating like polyurethane, and it can't chip off like a poly or varnish finish--but the resins fill the pores and provide a finish very nearly as durable as polyurethane, while showing off the natural beauty of the wood to the fullest. Usually two to three coats will yield a perfect satin shine--unlike linseed oil, which needs coat after coat after coat. I've built a fair number of pieces of furniture over the years, from a solid oak couch and coffee table to desks, media shelves, pantry cupboards, footstools, clocks, you name it. The Watco and Minwax penetrating oil finishes did a great job on all of them, and held up well over decades of use. A light reapplication about every ten or fifteen years keeps the furniture looking new--and unlike varnish or poly, you don't have to strip off the old stuff before reapplying an oil finish.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #8 – January 16, 2010, 07:54:12 am Yahoo Message Number: 109220I, too, have been woodworking for a number of years (decades, really) and also have another take on the subject. I think it depends on at least the type of wood (pine vs oak, for instance) and the expected use (floor vs art object). I have finished projects with polyurethane, shellac, Watco, sanding sealer, and just bees wax. I would say that the appropriate finish for the project would be.... it depends.... on the wood, the use, and what _you_ want it to look and feel like when you are "finished" (sorry, that one was too easy...) I might suggest that for an open grained wood, like oak or ash, something that fills the pores (assuming you are not using a filler... almost no one does any more) might be polyurethane, especially if the surface will be subjected to much wear (ie, a floor). For my carvings, I have used (experimented with) poly, shellac, and Watco. I like shellac the best and Watco the least, with a brush applied poly a close 2nd the the Watco. The carvings are in basswood, which is a "closed" grain wood, like pine. With objects that are not subject to as harsh wear as a floor, or have special needs, like a cutting board, you have lots of options. Ken
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #9 – January 16, 2010, 09:10:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 109222Ken and Andy,You mentioned fine ways of finishing wood and I have tried some of them to good effect. For this project, I wanted it to closely match the Mothership cabinet finish. While we like the warm glow look, for this table we wanted a higher gloss to remind us of the bright finish we had on our sailing boats. Call it a trip down memory lane. Also, four zero steel wool can turn a bright finish into a warm glow with a few gentle swipes.The wood is from a 1950's all maple coffee table that Dorothy's parents had in their LR. That makes it special. Her brother had it as first furniture and moved it to the barn to save some decades back. The original table had bullnose edges, so I routed the cut down sides to match.After removing the original dark stain, about the color of Grade B Dark Amber syrup, the color of the wood is close to Grade A Fancy. It's very light, with not much grain. The Miniwax Golden Pecan stain brings out the grain, rather then hiding it.When I quit fussing with the finish, I will install it, take some pictures and post them on our Mods Blog.As always, I hope others will in some way improve on the design.Keep in mind that my prime reason for posting was remind folks that they can hide scratches with Miniwax Golden Pecan stain and top coat it with a varnish rub - stain or semi-gloss seem right.Don & Dorothy An MB named Koko & a Jeep named Pelli SE21, SC54, NW56 Our Travel Blog: http://travelingdorothy.blogspot.com/ Our Mods Blog http://kokoandpelli.blogspot.com/
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #10 – January 16, 2010, 09:40:48 am Yahoo Message Number: 109223Yeah - what Andy said...I don't have his finishing expertise with oils but I have dabbled with them. Woodworking has been one of my hobbies. I have done stains, natural, oil finishes, true varnishes, polyurethane varnishes, shellac, and brush and spray lacquers. Each have their pluses and minuses.A diluted varnish used by wiping on yields a very similar result to the oil finishes Andy mentioned. It is thin enough that the first coat penetrates rather than sitting on the surface. There is one key difference. Once a varnish is fully cured, it must be sanded to create a "tooth" on the surface before it can be recoated. This is because subsequent coats rely on a mechanical bond rather than a chemical bond. Shellacs and lacquers re-dissolve the surface layer when applied, thus creating a chemical bond. Oils oxidize over time. A brief preparation of the surface by cleaning with 0000 steel wool and mineral spirits is all that is needed before applying a new coat. The new oil penetrates any scratches or worn spots, but gets rubbed off the spots that still have good surface protection, yielding a perfect match and mechanical bond with minimum effort. Some cautions are in order. When buying 0000 steel wool, do not get it in places like a hardware or auto store. That steel wool is intended for cleaning metal parts and probably has oils on it to prevent rusting. The oils are not compatible with wood finishes. Rather, go to a paint store and get oil-free steel wool for wood finishes. Next, and VERY IMPORTANT, varnish, oils and polyurethane finishes are exothermic. This means the finish material gives off heat as it cures. No big deal on a wood surface, but when on a rag is crumpled up in the trash, it can produce enough heat to spontaneously combust. Get the waste rags OUT of your RV. Either lay them flat for several days so they can't build up heat (a rock will keep them from blowing away) during the initial dry/cure or put them in a tightly sealed metal container so oxygen cannot get to them. Only then are they safe to put in a dumpster or trash.Here is a final tip for those who want to play around with oil or thinned varnish wiped on finishes. Some woods like oak, ash and walnut have tiny pores. No matter how much you sand, unless you apply MANY coats of varnish with sanding between coats, the resulting finish will show these tiny pits. To avoid this, get some fine (220 or 320) grit wet/dry sandpaper. Sand your first coat into the surface with the sandpaper. The tiny bits of sanded wood soaked with finish will fill the pores. After the first coat is dry, sand until smooth. Later coats will have a glass-smooth surface. This is not necessary when re-coating an oil finish or when using closed pore woods like maple or birch.Ken F. in New Mexico
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #11 – January 16, 2010, 10:17:47 am Yahoo Message Number: 109224Great advice, Ken! Here's what I do with oil-soaked rags and paper towels; I put 'em in a gallon Ziploc freezer bag and add enough water to soak them, leaving a little extra to slosh around. Then I force the air out of the bag as I seal it. This is as safe as a fireproof can and takes up much less space. Don, I understand that your project was intended to match existing woodwork. As I mentioned, when building the pantry cupboard for my current rig I stained the wood to match LD's cabinetry as closely as i could. And of course all of my recommendations were for furniture--I wouldn't use a penetrating oil finish on floors, boat decks, etc. As others have pointed out, you need to tailor your approach to the project. I just wanted to point out that there is a more natural-looking alternative to varnishes and plastics (such as polyurethane).Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #12 – January 16, 2010, 12:23:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109225Hi all, OK, there has been a lot of discussion about quality finishing, which is great if you have the time and patience and really "care." I have a different question that may have broader applicability. The LD cabinet doors and drawer fronts are made of plastic coated panels surrounded by a hardwood frame or trim. The plastic panels hold up well. The wood frames or trim, which seem to have been stained and then varnished, tend to deteriorate where they are prone to getting wet. Especially the tops of drawers or doors below the sinks. I just want to keep these presentable, not perfect. I periodically clean them with a slightly damp paper towel and then use a Minwax wood finish stain marker http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_maintenance_and_repair/wood_finish_stain_marker.htmlto resta
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #13 – January 16, 2010, 12:36:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109226Quote From: Andy To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 8:59 PM Subject: [LD] Re: Refinishing cabinetsFor what it's worth, I have a different point of view on finishing cabinetry. (This is something I learned from my father, who's made a lifelong hobby of refinishing two-hundred-year-old solid cherry and maple furniture.) I don't like glossy finishes; they look plastic to me. I especially don't like finishes that just sit on top of the wood, such as polyurethane or most varnishes. And while I did use a stain on Skylark's pantry cabinet, because I had to match Lazy Daze's fake-pecan paneling, I normally don't stain wood. I want to see its natural color.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/I have yet a different point of view, and as you know I rarely disagree with Andy except in the most eggregious of cases - - that being the case here. So I hearby formally object, well, all except his distain for glossy finishes. The very best way to finish cabinetry is the "Primal Method". This is far simpler that what Andy suggests, way cheaper, and will solve most of those nagging cabinetry problems that have been plaguing you for years. The Primal Finish is "unglossy" and is a do it once - good for life sort of thing. And while it doesn't exactly resist nicks, dings and abrasion, they hardly matter as they almost never stand out, instead adding to the, ahem, beauty of the surface. Another real plus, the Primal finish and the special tool needed is free! To apply the Primal Finish, you will need to locate a nice flat rock - if you don't have a rock and don't know where to find one, I have them for sale cheap ($5.95 each plus shipping). Today only (or any time actually), order an additional FREE rock for a freind, simply pay the low shipping and handling charge of just $19.95). Almost unbelievably, all the rocks I sell come with an unconditional lifetime guarantee. You don't even need to send back your broken rock. Get a new FREE replacement rock for whatever shipping and handling charge I feel is appropriate. Instructions: Rub your Pet, er, I mean Primal rock over your panels using a circular motion - - or a straight motion, or any kind of motion, it really doesn't matter as one method will look just as "good" as the other. Rub briskly until that ugly original finish is all gone. Stand back and admire your handiwork. Be sure to save your Primal Rock as it is akin to the "Leatherman" of LD tools, being also handy for home defense, winning arguments, and may even be pressed into service as a tire chock.bumper just waiting for the snow (and gathering rocks) in Minden, NV Yonder
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #14 – January 16, 2010, 01:34:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109227Terry, going back to my original post:Remove and smooth out existing varnish with 00, steel wool.Then rub on two coats of Miniwax's Golden Pecan stain.Acquire the makings for varnish rub. 2 parts Polyurethane [satin or semi gloss] and 3 parts mineral spirits Apply several coats of varnish rub using 0000 in between coats.Finally throw a few of bumper's genuine Nevada rocks to even it all out.Cheers, Don
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #15 – January 16, 2010, 01:57:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109228Again, does anyone know the color of stain that is used on the cabinets of a '91?__
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #16 – January 16, 2010, 03:44:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109230" To apply the Primal Finish, you will need to locate a nice flat rock - if you don't have a rock and don't know where to find one, I have them for sale cheap ($5.95 each plus shipping). Today only (or any time actually), order an additional FREE rock for a freind, simply pay the low shipping and handling charge of just $19.95). Almost unbelievably, all the rocks I sell come with an unconditional lifetime guarantee. You don't even need to send back your broken rock. Get a new FREE replacement rock for whatever shipping and handling charge I feel is appropriate." I think Bumper has either been soaring too high or too close to area 51!! He seems to get this way every winter ;-)Karen
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #17 – January 16, 2010, 04:21:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109232"Again, does anyone know the color of stain that is used on the cabinets of a '91?"The easiest way to find out is to call the Lazy Daze factory. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Refinishing cabinets Reply #18 – January 16, 2010, 04:47:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109233"if you don't have a rock and don't know where to find one, I have them for sale cheap ($5.95 each plus shipping)."Now, now, Bumper--you know our rule against commercial posts. ;-) But seriously, folks, while we're on that topic... we DO have a rule against posting ads in this discussion group, yet we also have members who offer products or services that other members might want to know about. Larry Wade and Terry Tanner do various kinds of upgrades, as do Tim Pease and Mike & Lisa Sylvester, and undoubtedly others. Bumper sells flat rocks. ;-) I offer the "Eureka!" CD-ROM/download of RVing tips. And so on. For me as moderator, it gets a bit awkward at times knowing where to draw the line between informative posts and self-promotional ones. So at the suggestion of my co-moderator Judie, I've created a folder called "Services from members" in our Files > Buying & Selling section. Folks like those just mentioned, who offer a services or products commercially, are free to post a text ad in that folder. (One per member, please.) My suggestion would be to briefly describe what you're selling, and then link to your own website, where you can go into more detail. Keep it simple and it's more likely to be read in full. I hope this will give members with services or products to sell a chance to get some visibility, without having to worry about whether a message posted here might cross the line into blatant self-promotion. Do your self-promotion in the "Services from members" folder, and you won't need to do it here in the discussion boards.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Member Services (was Refinishing cabinets) Reply #19 – January 17, 2010, 12:24:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 109243On Jan 16, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Andy wrote:Quote... For me as moderator, it gets a bit awkward at times knowing where to draw the line between informative posts and self-promotional ones. So at the suggestion of my co-moderator Judie, I've created a folder called "Services from members" in our Files > Buying & Selling section. Folks like those just mentioned, who offer a services or products commercially, are free to post a text ad in that folder. (One per member, please.) Judie (and Andy) I think the new "Members' Services" file is a great idea/compromise and should be another helpful resource. Creative solution too! Thanks! So bumper.........do your rocks come in different colors? Can I get red jasper with just a few swirly inclusions of petrified moss agate?!!!Lorna Santa Cruz http://uppity-woman.blogspot.com/
Re: Refinishing cabinets - Atttn: Dale Reply #20 – January 17, 2010, 05:21:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 109250Quote Again, does anyone know the color of stain that is used on the cabinets of a '91?__ Hi Dale, I believe your cabinetry would be the same as our '94. For touch-up I used a blend (1/2 & 1/2) of Minwax Golden Oak and Minwax Provincial. Not knowing how much surface you're planning to do, I'd buy the smallest cans of each and mix a small batch in a container you can throw away. I use a white paper plate to "test" the color. When the 'test' is dry, tear the plate, hold it up to the cabinet and see if the match is close enough. (It will be darker on wood.) If you're wanting to just do a little touch-up of scratches, take a look at the Minwax touch-up markers as they work very well. Hope that helps.Juli '06 26.5 RB
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