About message deletions December 12, 2009, 03:47:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108419I really hate censorship, and I very rarely delete messages, other than accidental duplicates. But when I asked politely to close the recent thread on park fees, after it turned into a general "Let's bash the government" session, some folks didn't seem to get the message... so I've deleted all messages posted to that thread from then on, including some that made intelligent points and others that I agreed with (not necessarily the same ones ;-). I apologize to those whose messages I deleted, but as I said, I asked politely (twice!) and people kept on posting, so I had to draw the line somewhere. Of course those of you who get these messages as emails or in digest format read everything--deletions only affect messages on the group's website. Folks, I oversee this group with as little interference as I can manage while keeping things polite and pleasant. For the most part, it works--many members have commented that this is one of the politest groups they've ever seen. But when we start getting comments like "You voted for so-and-so... I hope you're happy with what you got"--*even if I agree*--that contributes nothing and just stirs up bad feelings. That's when I have to take action. I don't want to play censor and I don't want to be a "topic Nazi," but there are times when a group needs some guidance--that's what moderators are for. I do my best to keep my hands off as much as possible, and to be even-handed when I need to act. You can help by applying the golden online rules: before posting something, ask yourself whether it's necessary and whether it's kind.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: About message deletions Reply #1 – December 12, 2009, 04:48:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108423Andy, Thank you for your guidance. As I said, I am here to learning about RVing and Lazy Dazes in particular, not political disagreements.Jules
Re: About message deletions Reply #2 – December 12, 2009, 06:04:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108431Andy: You do a top drawer job of managing this group. We appreciate your good judgement in keeping everything in line and support your totally in deleting postings that aren't appropriate for we readers.Anne JohnsonLovely (RAINING!) La Verne, CA
Re: About message deletions Reply #3 – December 12, 2009, 07:18:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108437I totally agree. Thank you, Andy.Jeanne
About message deletions Reply #4 – December 12, 2009, 09:42:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108443Thaks Andy for managing this site so well. It's ok to hear a point of view once in a while, but lots of us do not want arguments reiterated over and over again. Appreciate your well balanced management of this site.Barry O[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: About message deletions Reply #5 – December 13, 2009, 10:39:57 am Yahoo Message Number: 108446Thanks Andy for moderating the LD site. Wise words and actions. Best, David (1998 LD MB)
Re: About message deletions Reply #6 – December 13, 2009, 11:40:33 am Yahoo Message Number: 108447As the author of one of the apparently deleted messages, I do not agree with the cherry-picking censorship. Either leave all of the messages and let a thread die a natural death (they all do) or remove all of the thread messages. Or perhaps change the name of the group to lifewithalazydazervaslongasyounlyagreewithmyopinions.Regards, Ricihard
Re: About message deletions Reply #7 – December 13, 2009, 02:35:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108459"I do not agree with the cherry-picking censorship." Neither do I, and that's why I don't do it. When the "Forest Service fees" thread veered into political ranting, I asked the group to close the thread, and when that didn't happen, I deleted ALL messages in that thread from then on, regardless of whether they agreed with my own opinions. (Some did and some didn't. I deleted them all.) Conversely, when I opened this "Message deletions" thread to discuss what I'd done and why, I allowed ALL messages, including yours. The fact that most members who posted agreed with what I'd done isn't the result of any "cherry-picking." It simply reflects the opinions of the majority of the group.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: About message deletions Reply #8 – December 13, 2009, 02:51:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108460Quote"The fact that most members who posted agreed with what I'd done isn't the result of any "cherry-picking." It simply reflects the opinions of the majority of the group."Andy Baird Andy "Most members...[?]" Funny, I only counted five (5) postings agreeing with you. This hardly constitutes a "majority of the group". Seems to me that there are substantially more than five members in this group. And as one of the silent Majority I do not agree with your actions at all. As the last poster said: The thread would have died a natural death, given enough time. But instead you exercised your 'rights' and squashed mine. By definition a Forum is: 'A medium of open discussion' That apparently does not apply here!Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: About message deletions Reply #9 – December 13, 2009, 03:01:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108461QuoteBy definition a Forum is: 'A medium of open discussion' That apparently does not apply here! Perhaps a good solution would be a separate LD forum for political and other controversial or highly opinionated discussion, with essentially no moderation. That would result in the type of forums most newsgroups have funneled into, but provide the outlet some may feel the need for. As a former head moderator of THIS group, I can honestly say that Andy's style of directing the group has led it into a direction that I feel most of us would agree is much more comfortable to participate in than most other groups - and better than it was under me!Steve
Re: About message deletions Reply #10 – December 13, 2009, 03:04:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108462#1 rule
Re: About message deletions Reply #11 – December 13, 2009, 03:09:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108463Well, if you insist: I certainly agree with Andy. I'm surprised anyone would wonder whether most members agreed with him. I was in another Yahoo group (Foretravel) where one member veered off topic so often he was banned. Fortunately, that apparently has not happened here yet.best, paul"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com "Most members...[?]" Funny, I only counted five (5) postings agreeing with Quoteyou. This hardly constitutes a "majority of the group". Seems to me that there are substantially more than [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: About message deletions Reply #12 – December 13, 2009, 03:23:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108464Quote from: richardg1952" Or perhaps change the name of the group to lifewithalazydazervaslongasyounlyagreewithmyopinions. This is a very low shot and not deserved at all. Andy was very patient and clear about it. I have to agree with others that political ranting has no place whatever on this forum. I appreciate Andy's response, but only wish it was done more quickly. Probably the best thing is for members to simply not respond to posts that move in that direction. I also don't appreciate people hijacking the topic of posts. It seems to happen far too often. I wish the moderators could move wayward responses to a new thread with an appropriate title. It gets very hard to find wanted info when the thread title has three or four topics within it.Just my two cents worth.
Re: About message deletions Reply #13 – December 13, 2009, 03:24:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108465Correct! Just so some don't feel they've been selected for special punishment I suggest there are MANY off topics, for example, my own personal opinion of a list of possible Off Topics off the top of my head:Politics Religion Marriage Issues Child Rearing Issues Dogs Cats Hamsters, etc, etc, through all the other mammals Police Review Committees Capitalism Foretravel RVs Datastorms and so forthbest, paul"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com
Re: About message deletions Reply #14 – December 13, 2009, 04:27:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108468Quote from: Andy" Of course those of you who get these messages as emails or in digest format read everything--deletions only affect messages on the group's website. ANDY: too bad you can't delete them from the digest form as well. Keep up the good work, please! -- Jon
Re: About message deletions Reply #15 – December 13, 2009, 04:37:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108469On Dec 13, 2009, at 12:51 PM, lejest2003 wrote:Quote "Most members...[?]" Funny, I only counted five (5) postings agreeing with you. Steve, some of us sent Andy personal messages of agreement and support. Perhaps he was counting those PM's in the "most" members?Lorna Santa Cruz http://uppity-woman.blogspot.com/
Re: About message deletions Reply #16 – December 13, 2009, 05:09:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108473"...Hamsters, etc, etc, through all the other mammals" Hey, anybody see "Bolt"? One of the three main characters was a fearless RVing hamster--definitely on topic! ;-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: About message deletions Reply #17 – December 13, 2009, 05:11:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108474Quote"Steve, some of us sent Andy personal messages of agreement and support. Perhaps he was counting those PM's in the "most" members?Lorna Yes Lorna, perhaps he was! However, I'm not privy to PMs of any sort except those I receive and send. I do not get postings from the forum as e-mails (too cumbersome) but rather go on line to the Group and read each posting there. One of the postings Andy deleted was mine. I was trying to reach the group members with a message having to do with the thread in question. It stayed on the board only long enough for me to see it 'immediately' following the posting and then it was gone, a conspicuous gap in the sequence numbers left in it's place. As to the original thread, loss of discounts in federal facilities, I believe it to be quite germain to a Lazy Daze forum (or any other RV forum for that matter) and of vital importance to the very people who read this board. Limiting comments on this topic is not in the best interest of folks who utilize federal parks and USFS campgrounds.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: About message deletions Reply #18 – December 13, 2009, 05:16:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108476OK. Hamsters are in. My apologies )best, paulPS> As is RV humor, I guess..."Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon) - See our website at www. LazyDazers.com
Re: About message deletions Reply #19 – December 13, 2009, 05:34:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108477QuoteFolks, I oversee this group with as little interference as I can manage while keeping things polite and pleasant.> Andy, I haven't yet read the comments on your message and I imagine I'll be duplicating a lot of what's been said. But I do want to thank you very much, and note that you do - what seems to me - a very balanced and thorough job of keeping this running smoothly. That's never easy when you're dealing with so many folks with so many disparate wants and opinions. It's always a pleasure to come here PRECISELY because there isn't a lot of mean-spirited, immature sniping, not to mention all the good-hearted, caring help.Keep up the great work!Chuck in Bellevue, WA
Re: About message deletions Reply #20 – December 13, 2009, 05:55:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108479I agree with Andy. This is a forum on issues with Lazy Daze or RVing in general. Sometimes politics, religion, sexual orientation, etc. might sneak in once and awhile, as in the previous thread. After a bit of posturing, that thread should have been stopped as it was. I want to know about RVing issues. There are tons of republicans I can fight with here at home and don't want it in this forum.Rick Lechner
Re: About message deletions Reply #21 – December 13, 2009, 06:16:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108481Other forums I belong to have multiple topics, one of which usually consist of wide-open political discussions. We do not have that luxury here but then this is a free forum as opposed to the paid membership variety. I enjoy a good, spirited discussion but things get out of line at times. All of us guilty ones raise our hands now . Andy runs this forum and it is his right to operate it the way he thinks is correct. While we may not always agree, I respect his opinions and his dedication to operating the forum in a civilized manner. Thanks Andy. There are other LD related Yahoo forums (Techsnoz, LD_Enhancements and THE_LAZY_DAZE_30_FT_ISLAND_BED). I run a private one for the 'Past Tents' group of the LD Caravan Club. If someone wishes to start and run a new LD political forum, it is really easy to do. On the homepage click 'Start a group'.Now back to our regularly scheduled program.Larry
Re: About message deletions and hamsters Reply #22 – December 13, 2009, 06:16:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108482Andy wrote: " Hey, anybody see "Bolt"? One of the three main characters was a fearless RVing hamster--definitely on topic! ;-)" I think our moderator is gently asking us to change the topic before it becomes personal. How can anyone look at his response and not see what a tolerant, good humored man he is? Andy, are you thinking about getting a hamster? It would keep Alix from getting bored ;-) Now, if you can get a cat to co-exist with a hamster......Karen
Re: About message deletions Reply #23 – December 13, 2009, 09:44:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 108493Quote I agree with Andy. This is a forum on issues with Lazy Daze or RVing in general. Sometimes politics, religion, sexual orientation, etc. might sneak in once and awhile, as in the previous thread. After a bit of posturing, that thread should have been stopped as it was. I want to know about RVing issues. There are tons of republicans I can fight with here at home and don't want it in this forum.Rick Lechner It's not that easy. When someone says (as Andy did) that he thinks the elderly and disabled shouldn't get a discount on camping fees and you happen to be elderly or disabled, as I am, it tends to raise your dander a bit. Can you blame someone for defending themselves? I also think Andy does a splendid job as moderator. I've learned alot from him and from this forum about Lazy Daze motorhomes. Andy stated his opinion and so did others in opposition and support. I guess I missed the deleted posts that had to do with "who someone voted for". Just my opinion. I'm still with you Andy. Thanks, Dennis S
Re: About message deletions Reply #24 – December 14, 2009, 01:50:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 108495Quote"Most members...[?]" Funny, I only counted five (5) postings agreeing with you. This hardly constitutes a "majority of the group". > Steve S. Well, Steve S., since you're counting, let me add my voice to those who appreciate Andy's even-handed way of moderating this group. It certainly is the most civilized of those in which I participate.Sharon N. Crossville, TN
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