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Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Yahoo Message Number: 105814
I figured there was nothing new to add to Shurflo tales of woe, but it was suggested that I post my experience.
 I have a 2008 MB.  Walking from the dinette to the rear two nights ago, I felt a wet floor.  I traced the leak to my Shurflo pump, a Shurflo Extreme 5.7 unit.  It was dripping at a rate of about 1 drip per second.  When I turned off the pump and drained the system pressure, the leak stopped.
 The next morning, I called Shurflo.  They asked me to check if all 10 screws on the front of the pump were tight.  They were (boy, there is a LOT I could have added about getting the pump out before this sentence!).  Shurflo then said they would ship me a new pump.  It would take a week to get to me.
 With shore water available to me, I left the pump connected but off, left my tank empty, and hooked up to shore water through the pressure reducer for the first time.  I expected that the check valve that I had heard about would prevent water from getting to the pump and leaking onto the floor.  I was wrong.
 With the hose shore connection pressurized, I still had a leak at the pump, same rate, 1 drop per second.
 I tried to think of how to make it for a week without drenching my rig.  A friend of mine suggested putting in my own shut-off valves to isolate the pump.
 That sounded like a great solution, so off I went to the hardware store.  I bought two shut-off valves for 1/2" PEX tubing.
 Guess what - the tubing into and out of the pump is not PEX.  It is a softer material similar to Tygon tubing, with a 1/2" internal diameter.
 Back to the hardware store...  I returned the unused PEX valve and bought two plastic valves that would work on the type of tubing present.  They had 3/4" threaded connections to which I attached 1/2" barb to 3/4" threaded nylon adapters.  I connected the valves in line on the inflow and outflow hoses, shut both off, and re-pressurized the system.

So far, my floor is dry.

Key lessons that I learned are:
1) To remove my pump, I had to dump a full fresh water tank, because there was no shut-off valve between the tank and the pump. (There is now!)
2) The check valve between shore water and pump water is apparently part of the pump.  In my case, that allowed the shore supply to leak from the pump. (That won't happen again!)
3) For a total of $20 I was able to install two valves in the tubing that would allow me to isolate the pump from shore power and from the fresh water tank.  With my current system, I can completely remove the pump while my shore water supply is under pressure.

If anyone wants to add these valves, the steps are:
1) Purchase two plastic shut-off valves with 3/4" threaded female fittings.
2) Purchase 4 nylon adapters, 1/2" hose barb male to 3/4" threaded male.
3) Purchase 4 hose clamps big enough to go over the hoses.
4) If you don't have teflon tape, get some.
5) Using teflon tape on the threads, connect two of the adapters to the ends of each of the valves.
6) Turn off your pump, open a faucet and drain your fresh water tank.
7) The hoses attach to the pump with snap-on and snap-off plastic clips.  Put a towel under the pump and remove the plastic clips.  You should need no tools for this.
8) Use a magic marker to note where you want the valves to be.
9) Pull off the nearest hose.
 10) Cut the hose at the magic marker mark, put the hose clamps onto the hose ends, push the barbs fully into the hoses, and place and tighten the hose clamps.
11) Replace the hose fitting on the pump and re-attach the plastic clip.  Note that the narrower opening on the clip should face toward the hose and the wider opening toward the pump. If necessary to rotate the valve position, loosen the hose clamps by the valve, turn the valve to the desired position and re-tighten the clamps.
12) Repeat steps 9-11 with the farther hose.
13) Open both valves.
14) Refill your fresh water tank, purge air from the system and turn the pump on to check for leaks.
 If you want to be able to isolate your water pump, this is an easy and inexpensive way to do it.

Ken F., still at Baxter SP in Maine for 12 more days.
'08 MB
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105816
Hi Ken,

Getting the pump out is fun isn't it? I managed it with only a scratched wrist that did not bleed on anything. A success for sure.
 Just curious, where is the leak? The end with the pressure sensor or from the fittings or ?

Quote
1) To remove my pump, I had to dump a full fresh water tank, because there was no shut-off valve between the tank and the pump.
Ah gravity! I found that I could raise the inlet tubing higher than the tank and tie a string to it to keep it up. The closest source of fresh water for us was a several miles away. But a valve is much better.

Our spare pump is not working much better than the one it replaced.
But it does not leak. I will pick up another one in ALQ when we pass through there in two weeks. Meanwhile we have hookups, for the first time in three months. So the pump is off. We have always used the pump, even the few times we have had hookups since the water pressure is better and it keeps the water in the tank fresh. This is how we found out about the check valve. After we had been here a few days, water was dripping from the overflow drain of the fresh water tank. I let out a gallon or so and the next morning, it was dripping again.
Not a problem, just a wet spot on ground for us, but it shows that water can pass through the pump.

I am wondering if the pass through of water is related to pump problems? Of course, that is not something I am going to get an answer to.

I will replace the 5.7 with a 4.0. We have no need for the water volume the 5.7 can produce. It is rare when we have two faucets on at the same time. I will also add shut-off valves. Thanks for a good idea.

Don & Dorothy An MB named Koko & a Jeep named Pelli
 Our Travel Blog: http://travelingdorothy.blogspot.com/ Our Mods Blog http://kokoandpelli.blogspot.com/

Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105818
Oh, boy, Ken that $^&*# Shurflo pump again.  When new, mine would constantly burp.  Vince at the factory spent an afternoon adjusting it so it ran OK.  It ran fine for four days and then would shut off and not restart whenever we shut a faucet.  We'd have to turn off the switch, then back on aga
CB radio
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105820
Is there anything special about the CB radio that came in our LD? (Cobra 29 LTD) It was the first thing I pulled out because I kept hitting my head on it.
I just saw it in the stack of stuff for a garage sale, and I wondered if anyone wants one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105821
Quote
...
The next morning, I called Shurflo.  They asked me to check if all 10 screws on the front of the pump were tight.  ... Shurflo then said they would ship me a new pump.  It would take a week to get to me.
...
Ken F., still at Baxter SP in Maine for 12 more days.
IMHO, a week for delivery is unacceptable. That pump is a year old! Shurflo should stand behind their product and get that to you in two days. Even ordinary USPS Priority Mail takes just 3 days (yes, I specifically queried with  the appropriate ZIP Codes).

Joanne in Boston NE-44
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105822
Quote
1) To remove my pump, I had to dump a full fresh water tank, because there was no shut-off valve between the tank and the pump. (There is now!)
Just a note for those with a mid bath.  It is not necessary to drain the fresh water tank to remove the water pump even if you don't have a valve between the tank and the pump.  You just need to drain the tank far enough so the level of the water is below the strainer bowl which is attached to the top of the compartment.  Then you remove the bowl which prevents water from siphoning out of the tank when the hose is disconnected at the pump.  This probably only applies to those with the 5.7 pump but those are the ones that most people are replacing.

Of course anyone who has installed a winterizing kit with a hose to draw antifreeze from a jug already has a valve between the tank and the pump.

Monti

Monument, CO
Re: CB radio
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105826
There is a one price priority mail box that it will fit in.
I think it is $7 or $11. I'll let you know when I get back from the PO.
I'll need an address.
GP

__ From: john owens chernefitter@...>
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:08:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [LD] CB radio

Sure George I will take it off your hands. How much to ship to Orange County, Ca? John 85'FL.
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105832
Replying to Don, the leak appeared to be at the junction of the hemispherical (front) portion to the cylindrical (rear) portion of the pump.
 Replying to Joanne, it is worse than you think.  They would not have a direct replacement ready to ship to me until the 25th.  I leave here on the 24th. They are shipping the marine model rather than the RV model.  The tech guy said the pump is the same except that the marine model's pressure adjustment is waterproof.

We shall see...
Ken F
'08 MB
Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106636
Follow-up...
On Sept. 13 I posted about my Shurflo 5.7 leaking and needing to be replaced.  I received and installed the replacement on Sept 23.  The new pump is now leaking.
Shurflo has a pump on its way to me.  I told them I would like some pump other than the 5.7.  They are shipping the 4.0.
The good news is, Shurflo does not hesitate to replace their pumps, and I now have the ability to isolate the pump so I can connect to shore water without leaking.  The bad news is that blankety-blank Shurflo 5.7 pump.
Ken F., in the Ozarks
'08 MB
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106643
Hi Shurflo owners,

I am one of those who has had repeated problems since I upgraded from the stock Shurflo Whisper King pump to the 5.7 Extreme. But I've had better luck lately. When
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106651
A good discussion Terry, but it leaves me even more confused.
Like you, the number of times we have connected to city water could be counted on one hand. Our original pump lasted almost two years. The replacement lasted two weeks.
 I fail to see how a check value protects the pump from excessive high pressure, based on the definition of a check valve.

A check valve, clack valve, non-return valve or one-way valve is a mechanical device, a valve, which normally allows fluid (liquid or gas) to flow through it in only one direction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_valve

The way I read that is it will pass water one-way without regard to pressure. What am I missing here???

Second, anyone know where the check value is on a MB? Take out the drawers in the closet to see it?

Third, isn't the city water check valve a part of what the hose is screws into?
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106653
Hi Don,

The check valve I discuss allows water to flow downstream unimpeded from the pump into the coach plumbing system to all the fixtures. But it prevents water downstream that may be under higher pressure from either the city water supply or water expanding when it is heated from returning to the pump.

Presumably the pump internals are designed to handle a certain pressure, say the 65psi the pump itself can generate, but can apparently be damaged by higher pressures. The tech at Shurflo said the following situation is common. It would be the typical situation when you arise in the morning. The water pump and water heater have been off and the entire system is cold and unpressurized. You turn the pump on and the system is immediately pressurized to 65 psi. You then turn the water heater on and sit down to read the paper over a cup of coffee. The water heater heats rapidly to a fairly high temp, about 140 degrees I think.
Water expands when heated and cannot be compressed. This increases the pressure
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106660
Quote
Hi Shurflo owners,

I am one of those who has had repeated problems .....
......I called Steve Newton at LD to ask if my Rear Bath includes a check alve. He said yes, in the vicinity of the water heater, to prevent excessive pressure back to the faucets when the tank heats.
This explains a lot.
 My coach does not have a check valve in cold line to the hot water heater.  Therefore when I blow the water out of my coach, I empty the hot water tank, fill it with compressed air (about 40 psi) from the compressor and then disconnect the air line.  I then open a cold water tap and the pressure pushes out about another quart of water out of the bottom of the HW tank.
 When I have tried this stunt on two other LD coaches, it doesn't work at all.  I surmised that there must normally be a check valve in the cold water line.  Thanks for the confirmation.
 I'll have to look and see if there is indeed no such valve in my coach or if it's there and defective.

Linley
Re: Another Shurflo failure
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106671
"Water expands when heated. This increases the pressure in the water system. Without a check valve... the pump suffers damage and begins to act up."
 If the gang will forgive my bringing up an old topic, this is yet another reason to choose the timer- or thermometer-based method, which heats the water just to the temperature needed for showering with only the hot faucet turned on. Since that temperature is typically only about 100-105° F., it would put less stress on the pump in the situation you described... as well as saving considerable amounts of water and propane. :-) For more information, see message #99251.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Another Shurflo failure
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106680
Quote
"Water expands when heated. This increases the pressure in the water system. Without a check valve... the pump suffers damage and begins to act up."
 If the gang will forgive my bringing up an old topic, this is yet another reason to choose the timer- or thermometer-based method, which heats the water just to the temperature needed for showering with only the hot faucet turned on. Since that temperature is typically only about 100-105° F., it would put less stress on the pump in the situation you described... as well as saving considerable amounts of water and propane. :-) For more information, see message #99251.
Andy Baird
Hi Andy,
 You've mentioned timing the water heater several times. It probably works great for a solo traveller, but how does that factor in  when more than one shower is needed [and the folks don't want to shower together;-)]? Have a formula for that?

Steve K. (dealing with Shurflo 5.7 issues again..... today)
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Another Shurflo failure
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106684
Quote
From: nukamper2000
 To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 7:06 AM
 Subject: [LD] Re: Another Shurflo failure

Hi Andy,
 You've mentioned timing the water heater several times. It probably works great for a solo traveller, but how does that factor in when more than one shower is needed [and the folks don't want to shower together;-)]? Have a formula for that?

Steve K. (dealing with Shurflo 5.7 issues again..... today)

It works for Jan and I. Installed a thermometer, as posted here, to keep track of temperature. Jan likes showers way hotter than me, so she goes first. There's still plenty of hot water for me!
 There's a fair amount of hysteresis in the display. After turning off the heater, the display temperature continues to rise. Also installed the variable thermostat and turned it as low as it will go.

bumper Yonder Minden, NV
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: Another Shurflo failure
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106689
You can always do like we did, and take "Navy" type showers.  You can have 3 or 4 people in a row without any problem.  Just get a small, plastic bucket.
Fill it part way, and use that water to scrub with.  Then a quick rinse with the shower, and you are done.  Of course you empty the bucket between users.
:-)

Dick
Re: Another Shurflo failure
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106691
Quote
From: W6CCD
 Of course you empty the bucket between users.
:-)

Dick

Umm, er, . . . . . why?
 An' besides, if you really wanted to empty the bucket, wouldn't it be better (i.e. more entertainment value) to empty it directly *on* a user rather than between them? Just wondering . . . :c)

bumper Yonder
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: Another Shurflo failure
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106695
"You've mentioned timing the water heater several times. It probably works great for a solo traveller, but how does that factor in  when more than one shower is needed?"
 Bumper gave you a firsthand report; I'll just say that that the thermometer method is better than timing, because you know for sure when you've hit the desired temperature.
 But if you're using a timer (which after all is cheap and simple), here's a rule of thumb: a one-gallon Navy-style shower will drop the temperature in the water heater about three degrees, and two minutes of running the water heater will get you back up to the original temperature. If you use more than a gallon when showering, adjust your timing accordingly.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106713
Quote
So, I installed a brass check valve just downstream of the pump.
Terry, where and what type of check valve did you get? Did it already come with barbed ends?
 We awoke at 6:45am this morning to the sounds of our water detector alarm going off this morning. The 4th pump had started leaking at the output side fitting or near it and this was while connected to city water. It leaked with the pump on as well.
 By the way this is the new RV model 4008 pump they sent me about 2 weeks ago to replace my third 5.7. They are sending a new 4008 and told me that mine will be the first of about a 1,000 they have out there that has failed. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
 Anyway, I checked with a local hardware store and the smallest check valve they had was 4" long by 1/12" in diameter and was going to requite adapters to fit inline.

I now have my 5th pump, a 5.7, installed.

Jim C
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106714
It's a half inch brass check valve that involves a perfectly machined brass "door" that closes across the line
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106715
I've seen one discussion online from a guy who was told by a Shurflo tech to put
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Re: Another Shurflo failure, or How To Isolate Your Water Pump
Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 106747
To paraphrase Einstein: Those who repeat the same experiment and expect different results are doomed.  Jack in Reno

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