Bad fuel pump and new tires August 29, 2009, 01:38:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105358Group Tooling down Hwy 395, on my way to the Tire Man, I stopped over at an RV park just south of Lone Pine, CA. That's within the afternoon shadow of Mt. Whitney. When I went to pull out in the morning the engine would crank but would not fire. A tow back to Lone Pine and a quick diagnosis says 'yo gonna be here a while'. They dropped the tank that afternoon. The new pump arrived the next AM and by noon I was on the road again. Man says this is typical, 40K to 50K is about all you're gonna get out of the Ford OEM pump. My odometer read 41,796. So I arrive (somewhat late) at the Tire Man and now have a new set of Goodyear G947 RSS tires. (LT225/75R16, LR E, All Steel, M+S) Somewhat firmer than the old Michelins but not too bad overall. Don't ever go down into that country in August unless you absolutely have to! Triple digits all the way.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #1 – August 29, 2009, 08:25:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105362I really wonder what this group has experienced regarding fuel pump failures. As we get ready for a trip to the Midwest this fall, I decided to do some preventitive maintenance. As we have about 75K miles on our 2000 MB, I had the cooling system hoses and water pump replaced as well as the serpintine belt. These are areas that my experience tells me fail at or about that age/mileage, but I never gave a thought to the fuel pump. I have never had one fail, but what Steve was told makes me wonder. How about other folks who have over 50K miles on your LD. Many other fuel pump failures? ? ? ? What about water pumps and hoses?? Did I over maintain in those areas? Any other areas that tend to fail (besides the poorly designed parking brake) at 75K/10 years old?Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #2 – August 29, 2009, 09:14:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105363I don't think you "over-maintained". It's always good to make sure you're in good shape. One of the things that kills fuel pumps, is running out of gas. The fuel in the tank is a lubricator and cooler for the pump as well as fueling the engine. It's to bad that the OE Ford pumps are only good for 50K as it is a relatively inexpensive part, but the getting it out and back in to the fuel tank is where most of the effort and money is spent. I recently had one replaced in my daughters Chevy S-10, which went out because she habitually ran it out of gas, and it was a 500.00 bill. I know the pump itself was about 80.00 at Napa. The other thing you may want to think about at 75K is changing the brake fluid, changing the transmission fluid, and changing the differential oil. It's probably time to check out your front brake pads and rotors as well, if you haven't replaced the yet.
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #3 – August 29, 2009, 09:20:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105364QuoteI really wonder what this group has experienced regarding fuel pump failures. I just changed the fuel filter at 15,000 miles. As the mechanic told me at Scarff Ford Truck Center in Auburn: It was a good idea to change this out for several reasons. Getting fuel from unknown sources along your route and the fact that this isn't your fathers fuel pump. From what I understand the fuel pump runs at extremely high PSI, around 2100 LBS! (remember the old carburetor that had a fuel pump that ran at 7 to 14 PSI) My rig is a 2006 MB, next year I will be power draining the anti freeze and brake fluids. At 30,000 miles ditto the transmission and rear axle. Can you do too much preventative maintenance? It depends on how much trust you have in machines I guess. for myself, I'd rather fix it on my schedule and not on what the engine decides to do. After all, it's just money! (g) BTW, How much did the repairs cost? Thanks, Jim Pappas Tacoma, WA
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #4 – August 29, 2009, 09:33:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105365I have a 3/4 ton 1994 Chevy G-20 van with a 4.3 V-6 engine. It's a conversion van with captain's chairs and only 15 feet long; it's not a camper van. The fuel pump went out after 178,000 miles and 16 years; so it lasted a long time. The pump was 150 and the labor 465, so it cost me $615 at a Chevrolet dealer. The labor might have been a little higher than a major repairer like Pep Boys, but I like the Chevrolet guarantee on the parts and labor. I hadn't changed the fuel filter
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #5 – August 29, 2009, 09:37:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105366QuoteBTW, How much did the repairs cost?Thanks, Jim Pappas Tacoma, WA Jim $590 total, with parts (pump & screen) amounting to only $194, the remainder being labor. Actually I thought it quite reasonable considering the remote location and minimum wait time. I was kept informed and made comfortable in a secure maintenance yard overnight. It could have been much worse.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #6 – August 29, 2009, 10:46:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105367A AAA study I saw years ago said the most common reason for highway breakdowns was belts & hoses. When you change hoses, remember the heater hoses. They also fail now & then. When you change the belts & hoses, it's a good idea to save the old ones. Carry them with you as emergency spares. Should one fail on a trip, you have a serviceable replacement ready to go. Might just get you out of a tight spot.Ed
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #7 – August 30, 2009, 10:39:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 105371Rich Gort-W7JVL wrote: How about other folks who have over 50K miles on your LD. Many other fuel pump failures? ? ? ? What about water pumps and hoses?? Did I over maintain in those areas? --- My 2003 has 55000 miles, receives regular (some might say *overly* regular) services, and I've not had any mechanical problems. I was very surprised to read Steve's mechanic's opinion that one could expect only 40-50 thousand miles out of the Ford OEM fuel pump; I wasn't able to find any substantiating evidence to support the accuracy of this statement on the web. If what the mechanic says is true, it seems to me that there are a *lot* of higher-mileage Ford owners out there who have dodged the bullet! ;-) I plan to call the Ford service center on Monday to get their take on the validity of the mechanic's statement (they have been very candid with me in the past about Ford's "glitches"), but I hope that owners will report their experiences with any fuel pump failures. Steve didn't mention whether the mechanic diagnosed the problem using a code or by some other means; I would be interested in knowing that, too. I am likely guilty of "overmaintaining" my motorhome, in the sense that it gets checked and serviced before the scheduled maintenance time and/or mileage. I also take the troubleshooting advice and experiences of the seasoned and knowledgeable mechanics on this board very seriously, and check/service items *not* necessarily included on the printed maintenance schedules. Hopefully, if something on the truck or "box" breaks down or blows up or falls off while I'm on the road, any failure will *not* be the result of inadequate or deferred maintanance!Joan
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #8 – August 30, 2009, 11:12:44 am Yahoo Message Number: 105374"Steve didn't mention whether the mechanic diagnosed the problem using a code or by some other means; I would be interested in knowing that, too."QuoteJoan Joan Apparently they diagnosed the problem via the OBD port as it didn't take more than five minutes to determine the pump failure and later on I noticed that my ScanGuageII had been disconnected (it was later reconnected).Interestingly enough, the ScanGuage did NOT register a fault code.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #9 – August 30, 2009, 01:10:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105377"It was a good idea to change this out for several reasons. Getting fuel from unknown sources along your route and the fact that this isn't your fathers fuel pump. From what I understand the fuel pump runs at extremely high PSI, around 2100 LBS!"Jim You are right, this isn't your father's fuel pump but changing the filter does little to protect the pump since the fuel goes through the pump before the inline filter. Changing a plugged filter does protect the pump against pushing against excessive head-pressure. There is an in-tank filter sock that pre-filters the gas before going through the pump but the replaceable in-line filter does the fine filtering. I have cut open three in-line V-10 filters that were replaced at about 30,000 miles and found that they were still in good shape and not excessively filled with debris. Changing filters too early is normally just a waste of money unless you get a batch of really dirty gasoline. The Factory suggested change interval of 30,0000 miles is a good one to follow. BTW, Ford's V-10 fuel pumps produce around 40 pounds of pressure (PSI), nowhere near 2100 PSI. Before we start another round of paranoia, such as blown spark plugs and failed transmissions, we need to remember that the V-10 is a very durable engine with few widespread problems. Fuel pumps do fail but not very often. Very few members of this forum have reported pump failures and I have not seen very many on the Ford forums. The best thing you can do for your fuel pump is to never let the fuel tank run dry and to have a minimum of a ¼ tank at all times. The fuel pump is cooled and lubricated by the fuel in the tank.LarryHot and smoky LA
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #10 – August 30, 2009, 01:38:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105378"There is an in-tank filter sock that pre-filters the gas before going through the pump but..." "BTW, Ford's V-10 fuel pumps produce around 40 pounds of pressure (PSI), nowhere near 2100 PSI." "The best thing you can do for your fuel pump is to never let the fuel tank run dry and to have a minimum of a ¼ tank at all times. The fuel pump is cooled and lubricated by the fuel in the tank."Quote Larry Larry That "filter sock" is more often called a 'screen' and I was told it filters out particles of xxxx microns. At any rate, it bumped the price of the pump by $24, sure hope it does it's job.The pressure I was quoted was 45psi. I'd want to keep my tank topped off if for nothing more that the sake of the generator. The fuel level in my tank at time of failure was half full/empty, hardly enough to be detrimental to the fuel pump. Actually I had prior warning that something was amiss. On my trip to Canada this spring I started experiencing a 'hesitation', particularly accelerating up a grade. When I mentioned it to the service manager at the repair facility he said, "that is a classic symptom of an impending pump failure".Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #11 – August 30, 2009, 02:37:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105381Jim, Not sure if you are asking Steve about the fuel pump replacement cost or my preventitive maintenance cost. My cost for all hoses (including heater hoses), water pump replacement, system flush, fuel and air filters, pcv valve, belt and belt idler pulley replacement, differential drain, flush and refill (4 Qts at $18.95 a Qt) as well as an oil change and lube job came to a total of $1473.70 of which $788.45 was labor and $685.25 was parts. That was fine, but I also had them (the local Ford service in Lynden, WA) check my parking brake. When they opened the filler cap, fluid shot out under presure indicating a leak between it and the transmission. The resulting rebuild of the parking brake added an additional $1293.81 that I hadn't planned on.Joan, please pass along any information you get from Ford about the frequency of fuel pump failures. Thanks,Rich Gort - 2000 MB - Birch Bay, WA
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #12 – August 30, 2009, 04:54:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105388QuoteI really wonder what this group has experienced regarding fuel pump failures. My '99 RB has 78K and has the original fuel pump.
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #13 – August 30, 2009, 06:30:47 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105395QuoteOn Aug 30, 2009, at 1:37 PM, lejest2003 wrote:o o oThe pressure I was quoted was 45psi.I'd want to keep my tank topped off if for nothing more that the sake of the generator. The fuel level in my tank at time of failure was half full/empty, hardly enough to be detrimental to the fuel pump. Actually I had prior warning that something was amiss. On my trip to Canada this spring I started experiencing a 'hesitation', particularly accelerating up a grade. When I mentioned it to the service manager at the repair facility he said, "that is a classic symptom of an impending pump failure".Steve S. Lazy Bones & JiggsSteve, I had a similar experience experience on my '05 MB the way to Alaska. While trying to keep going up a grade, it was like a "governor" cut in and limited the engine RPM. I had the fuel filter replaced before leaving the lower 48 after the P0191 trouble codes began to show up on the ScanGauge (the original not the II) for the engine check. The odometer on the rig was around 47K. Things did not improve as we continued our journey. The Ford dealer in Dawson Creek, BC got a shot at diagnosis and repair and confirmed that the fuel pump was the culprit. Using Ford's proprietary OBD device he explained that at the fuel flow rate being demanded by the engine the fuel pressure at the fuel rails had dropped to 47 PSI or lower. The replacement pump was going to be $670 CDN (about $620 US at the time). Fortunately for me, the dealer had no pump in stock nor any after market equivalent available in town. I had an AIRTEX replacement fuel pump 2-day FedEx'ed to my niece in Valdez, AK for just under $270 including the shipping. (See my msg #103458 and helpful response from Ken Sann). I later had the fuel tank dropped and pump installed in Anchorage for around $390.So far, several thousands of miles later (odometer at 58K now), no more "governors" or problems with the fuel pump. I spoke to the tech about what the tank and the original pump's "sock" looked like. He said as fuel tanks go, my tank was had next to no debris. Also the sock looked pretty clean. So, I would conclude the pump became inefficient with time. Parenthetically, I asked about the fuel hose to the Onan generator and was told that at the rig's fuel tank it was a high quality plastic hose.Alex Rutchka, SE #4 '05 MB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #14 – August 30, 2009, 06:49:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105396...hesitation particlarly when going up a grade can also be caused by a partially blocked fuel filter. I would check that first. But then a dealer makes a lot more coin replacing a fuel pump than a $20 filter. To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com From: Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:29:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #15 – August 30, 2009, 07:03:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105397On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:29:11 -0400, Alex Rutchka wrote:QuoteI had an AIRTEX replacement fuel pump 2-day FedEx'ed Alex, I take it that you deem this be superior pump to Ford's?Cheers, Don
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #16 – August 30, 2009, 07:26:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 105398Don, It's more hope than knowledge. They have been around for a while and at least aim to improve on OEM pumps. Their website is here: http://www.airtexproducts.com/I have ben told that Denso was the original manufacturer for Ford.Alex Rutchka '05 MB
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #17 – August 31, 2009, 12:16:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 105410QuoteSteve, "I had a similar experience experience on my '05 MB the way to Alaska... Parenthetically, I asked about the fuel hose to the Onan generator and was told that at the rig's fuel tank it was a high quality plastic hose.Alex Rutchka, SE #4 '05 MB Alex Your problem sounds almost identical to mine except I'd describe my symptom as a hesitation or a stumble. I was able to accelerate beyond the symptom and gain speed during which the hesitation diminished. Between the problems encountered on my Canada trip and the outright failure of the pump I discovered a 3" section of the generator fuel line, at the tank, had multiple cracks. While that was being replaced I went ahead and installed a steel fuel line in place of that "high quality" plastic hose.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Bad fuel pump and new tires Reply #18 – August 31, 2009, 12:22:28 am Yahoo Message Number: 105411Quote "...hesitation particlarly when going up a grade can also be caused by a partially blocked fuel filter." LutzAnd it was for that very reason that I had the filter changed as soon as I got home from Canada. But then the pump consequently failed anyway.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
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