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Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104889
This gives a whole new meaning to the "Vegas Brothel Decor" so common in modern luxury Diesel Pushers :o)

best, paul

"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon)
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104900
Good one, Linda.

You remind me of an old joke.
 A guy is in the barber chair. The barber asks, "Would you like some hair tonic?" Customer: "No, my wife will think I've been in a whore house." Waiting Customer: "My wife doesn't know what a whore house smells like."

Just to set the record straight, neither do I.

We're celebrating 50 years of marriage August 22.

best, paul

"Thriving not surviving" - Paul Schaye (at 2008 NYC Marathon)
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104937
Sharon N."  wrote:

Quote
In spite of the complaints by some about Lazy Daze interior décor
choices, at least they're not as flamboyant as the interior of this Gypsy caravan in the UK.

Quote
http://weirdrvs.rvtravel.com/2009/08/inside-modern-gypsy-wagon.html
I know the OP was intended as lighthearted, but... in my view, it has glossed over something vital.  Those trailers reflect their  culture.
They are beautiful to them.  They did not (presumably) buy them that way off the showroom floor.  They have made them their own.  I bet they take tremendous pride and joy in them.  Can anyone take tremendous pride and joy in factory supplied LD interiors?  Well, perhaps.  Make do with them?  Sure, O.K.  But to do so is as strong of a cultural statement as that made by the proud Romani owners of the pictured trailers (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/burwash_calligrapher/show/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/burwash_calligrapher/show/>   for more photos).

Rupe (amateur cultural anthropologist)

P.S.  I posted and took this down a couple of times as I was having difficulty formatting it properly.

.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104951
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:20:54 -0000, "rupertdacat" Rupertdacat@...> wrote:

Quote
Can anyone take tremendous pride and joy in factory supplied LD interiors?
We have seen some LD interiors that bordered on tacky.
However, we rather like the 2007 brown that we chose.
We are positive that we could not done better ourselves.

Anyone can have the upholstery changed for a few thousand dollars.
And that is exactly what we will do when it gets worn/stained.
No different than what we do at our stick home.
We can only hope that it will look as good as what we have now.
I suppose we could order new fabric from the Mothership.

So loosen up rupert, open your wallet and get the perfect interior.

signed, no decorating taste
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104954
"Anyone can have the upholstery changed for a few thousand dollars."
 Or make their own slipcovers for a few tens of dollars, as a number of us have done. :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104955
Quote
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:20:54 -0000, "rupertdacat" wrote:

Can anyone take tremendous pride and joy in factory supplied LD interiors?
Actually, what I wrote was: "Can anyone take tremendous pride and joy in factory supplied LD interiors? Well, perhaps."  Some might see a non-trivial difference between that and the truncated quote above.  Be that as it may, what seriously irks me is the LD principals' infamous take it or leave it attitude.  That's no big problem (for me) as I have no need to do business with them.

O.K., I've said what I needed to.  No offense intended.

Rupe
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104958
Yes, Rupe, this was intended to be lighthearted. I have long admired the old-style Romani wagons.  They do reflect the taste and culture of their owners, as do the re-decorating efforts of many LD owners.
 I must confess, though, that I could not spend a night in the Romani caravan in the orginal link. To each his own.

Sharon N.

Crossville, TN
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104978
"...Be that as it may, what seriously irks me is the LD principals' infamous take it or leave it attitude.  That's no big problem (for me) as I have no need to do business with them.

Quote
O.K., I've said what I needed to.  No offense intended..."

Rupe
Well, Rupe, Lazy Daze, Inc. does seem to be a problem for you (even though you say it isn't) because you continue to find fault with its business practices.  If you don't intend to become an LD owner, why do you allow the way the Newtons do business to "irk" you?  In fact, since you are not a player, why do you even bother to comment?  As I mentioned to you in an earlier response to one of your messages, many (if not most) of us would rather have a quality product at a lower price and put up with a fewer choices.  After 53 years it's pretty obvious that LD management has determined that it can satisfy its customers by keeping quality up, prices down and at the same time minimize choices.

Now I've said what I needed to.  No offense intended...

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104979
Quote
... why do you allow the way the Newtons do business to "irk" you? ... many (if not most) of us would rather have a quality product at a lower price and put up with a fewer choices.
Chris, maybe you should try thinking of the "irk factor" as a successful screening tool that helps  to steer the whiners and primadonas away from the cult. Congeniality rules!

Joanne in Boston NE-44
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104987
"Chris Horst"  wrote: ... Lazy Daze, Inc. does seem to be a problem for you (even though you say it isn't)... "
 I don't appreciate being misquoted.  What I actually said is: "that's no big problem (for me)... "  Do you see the non-trivial difference?

" ... because you continue to find fault with its business practices."
 I don't recall previously having had occasion to express any opinion on that issue.

"If you don't intend to become an LD owner, why do you allow the way the Newtons do business to "irk" you?"

I have not said that I do not intend to become an LD owner.

" ... many (if not most) of us would rather have a quality product at a lower price and put up with a fewer choices."
 What could be higher in price (whatever that price might be) than something that someone does not want (such as the LD interior aesthetic)?

"After 53 years it's pretty obvious that LD management has determined that it can satisfy its customers by keeping quality up, prices down and at the same time minimize choices."
 But LD probably does not know how many potential customers it has not satisfied.
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104988
Quote
"Chris Horst"  wrote: ... Lazy Daze, Inc. does seem to be a problem for you (even though you say it isn't)... "
 I don't appreciate being misquoted.  What I actually said is: "that's no big problem (for me)... "  Do you see the non-trivial difference?

" ... because you continue to find fault with its business practices."
 I don't recall previously having had occasion to express any opinion on that issue.

"If you don't intend to become an LD owner, why do you allow the way the Newtons do business to "irk" you?"

I have not said that I do not intend to become an LD owner.

" ... many (if not most) of us would rather have a quality product at a lower price and put up with a fewer choices."
 What could be higher in price (whatever that price might be) than something that someone does not want (such as the LD interior aesthetic)?

"After 53 years it's pretty obvious that LD management has determined that it can satisfy its customers by keeping quality up, prices down and at the same time minimize choices."
 But LD probably does not know how many potential customers it has not satisfied."
It's somebody else's turn.  I don't think Rupe gets it.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104989
Chris and Joanne,
 While I agree with you (obviously, I bought "Yonder") in spite of the "LD factory culture". In my case, I researched on-line and got a lot from this list. I also had some experience with SOBs, so knew well what to compare LD to.
 Still, I think there is some validity to the complaint. Yup, I know the reasons the Newtons quickly give to brush off the complaints, requests and suggestions. And to an extent, I agree with them also. However, one should be clear about just *why* the Newtons have succeeded with the LD.
 It's all about quality, value, and a "Model T Ford" production line model, as we and the Newtons know. In an industry rife with scoundrels and shoddy workmanship, the LD stands out as one of the few RVs that are consciously made with quality and value in mind.  Could it be made better? Yes, easily, and in some areas incurring only minimal additional cost. The LD stands out, in at least a small part, because the competition (before they went bankrupt :c) was or is so crappy.
 I think the LD factory has a culture of believing that they know what's best for the customer even more than the customer. Sometimes they indeed may, but often they don't. Consider LED lighting, MPPT solar controllers (which they finally switched to a year or two after I unsuccessfully tried to get them to install one for me), cheapo plastic faucets and plastic sinks as but a few examples.
 There *is* room for improvement in both product and customer relations at LD. There are some good reasons for listening to one's customers (something I've not seen the factory do all that well). Yet LD obviously succeeds in spite, buoyed up by quality, value, word of mouth, and by being very fiscally conservative.
 Not all people want or are willing to accept a cookie cutter product. If LD wants to forego those customers, it's certainly their right to do so. Though it might make more business sense to be a little more accommodating and then charge enough extra for the extra effort to make a profit as well.
 BTW, I'll admit to being on the extreme fringe on this issue. Come's from founding and growing a medium sized company some 30 years ago that remains all about quality and more than simply pleasing the customer. And without focusing on the bottom line all the time. If you do that, and price product fairly, the bottom line almost takes care of itself. Don't just settle for pleasing the customer - - they should be regularly amazed.

bumper Yonder Minden, NV
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104990
"I have long admired the old-style Romani wagons. They do reflect the taste and culture of their owners, as do the re-decorating efforts of many LD owners."

At the Grand Caravan, in Cheyenne, there was a MB owned by a couple named Rene (the Gadabout Bohemian) and David.
The outside of the rig was perfectly stock but the entire interior had been completely reworked into a gypsy wagon. It had a full office conversion in the rear that was unseen when folded away. While it isn't my style, I was impressed with how complete the transformation was. Unfortunately, I did not have my camera
 I remember seeing interior photos a couple of years ago, most likely posted on this site.
If they were, they are now gone.
Anyone have copies that could be posted?

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104992
Quote
Chris and Joanne,
 While I agree with you (obviously, I bought "Yonder") in spite of the "LD factory culture". In my case, I researched on-line and got a lot from this list. I also had some experience with SOBs, so knew well what to compare LD to.
 Still, I think there is some validity to the complaint. Yup, I know the reasons the Newtons quickly give to brush off the complaints, requests and suggestions. And to an extent, I agree with them also. However, one should be clear about just *why* the Newtons have succeeded with the LD.
 It's all about quality, value, and a "Model T Ford" production line model, as we and the Newtons know. In an industry rife with scoundrels and shoddy workmanship, the LD stands out as one of the few RVs that are consciously made with quality and value in mind.  Could it be made better? Yes, easily, and in some areas incurring only minimal additional cost. The LD stands out, in at least a small part, because the competition (before they went bankrupt :c) was or is so crappy.
 I think the LD factory has a culture of believing that they know what's best for the customer even more than the customer. Sometimes they indeed may, but often they don't. Consider LED lighting, MPPT solar controllers (which they finally switched to a year or two after I unsuccessfully tried to get them to install one for me), cheapo plastic faucets and plastic sinks as but a few examples.
 There *is* room for improvement in both product and customer relations at LD. There are some good reasons for listening to one's customers (something I've not seen the factory do all that well). Yet LD obviously succeeds in spite, buoyed up by quality, value, word of mouth, and by being very fiscally conservative.
 Not all people want or are willing to accept a cookie cutter product. If LD wants to forego those customers, it's certainly their right to do so. Though it might make more business sense to be a little more accommodating and then charge enough extra for the extra effort to make a profit as well.
 BTW, I'll admit to being on the extreme fringe on this issue. Come's from founding and growing a medium sized company some 30 years ago that remains all about quality and more than simply pleasing the customer. And without focusing on the bottom line all the time. If you do that, and price product fairly, the bottom line almost takes care of itself. Don't just settle for pleasing the customer - - they should be regularly amazed.

bumper Yonder Minden, NV
You make good points, bumper, in a positive, constructive manner.  I think most would agree with your assessment of the LD manufacturing mentality.  I don't know for sure, but it would seem that Steve is more receptive to change and listening to the customers than Ed was.  Nevertheless, there's something I really admire in a family when the business the family founded has been successful "doing it their way".

OK, I'll lay this to rest...

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB
You gotta love those Newton's
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104993
When we saw our first Lazy Daze, we recognized the quality and we fell in love with the windows. We were advised about Ed. No problems. We get along OK, with curmudgeons, as long as they know what they doing.
Since the Newtons build a quality product, we just ignored being treated as yesterday's newspaper. We didn't get much of a hello when we went to pick KoKo up. No thanks for the business either, but we really did not expect it. We got what we wanted; an RV without problems at a price we thought was entirely reasonable. I can only hope the Newton's end of the business was as satisfying.

As to decor, as I said the other day, we like it. But, we are also quick to admit that we have always let our decorator handle our home.
 We had a couple in KoKo the other day. He had told us of all the RV's he had owned with considerable pride. He had not sat down in the rear lounge for a minute, when he started yammering about "You can really see out". "There are so many windows". etc. We have learned to just nod.

Life is good in a Lazy Daze!

We would love to hear from others who have their wheels turning.

Cheers, Don
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104994
On Aug 17, 2009, at 8:22 PM, Chris Horst wrote:
 
Quote
...Nevertheless, there's something I really admire in a family when the business the family founded has been successful "doing it their way".
I agree Chris, and would only add that Lazy Daze makes coaches to order.  To my knowledge, it does not, nor has it ever claimed to be in the custom-coach business.  "Doing it their way"?  Isn't that what all motorhome builders do?  Makes sense to me!  If Rupe doesn't like *any* of the several upholstery choices, I say:  Hey Rupe, good luck finding another motorhome that's as well made and has the customer service reputation enjoyed by  Lazy Daze.
 I'd also like to remind Rupe and others, that upholstery choices are (1) limited by law to fire resistant fabrics; (2) a fabric sample is only a few small inches of the whole -- one is better off looking at an actual installation to see how it (upholstery, cabinetry, floor, sink, counters, etc.) all ties together; (3) if you just absolutely can't live with it, it is *ridiculously* cheap and easy to hide or cover the offending fabric.  Did someone mention IKEA recently?  IKEA is a great start for ideas.  I still have a chair I haven't been able to satisfactorily cover.  I've simply hidden the offending original fabric with *stuff*...books, a bag for Goodwill, cat toys!!!
 I think people should also understand that the "family" is basically a one-man show, and he is Steve Newton.  I happen to agree with Terry Tanner about the LED lights -- seems that it would be such a simple upgrade, but I'll wager that when his ducks are lined up just so, Steve will make that change.  But I also know that when Steve received complaints about the miniscule RB sink counter, he personally designed, had fabricated, tested, redesigned and redesigned again the larger, nicely beveled sink/counter in today's Rear Bath models.  I don't think many of us realize just how much time, effort, retooling and retraining goes into every single design change that Lazy Daze does make and again: that it is all done by one man.

Lorna hitting the road for Blue Ridge Parkway tomorrow travel blog:  http://uppity-woman.blogspot.com
2003 RB
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104996
"At the Grand Caravan, in Cheyenne, there was a MB owned by a couple named Rene (the Gadabout Bohemian) and David... the entire interior had been completely reworked into a gypsy wagon."
 I've posted a few pictures in an album called "David and Rene's colorful midbath." As I recall, Rene was the prime mover behind this redecoration effort, the most extensive I've ever seen in a Lazy Daze. The rig was David's, however, and when they separated a few years back, he kept it. Unfortunately, I lost touch with them, I don't know what has become of the rig or David and Rene since then.
 Like Larry, I wouldn't have decorated my own rig this way... but it was a wonderfully warm, rich, and friendly environment that suited them perfectly. If nothing else, it stands as an inspiration, reminding us all that we don't have to put up with plain-vanilla factory decor if we don't want to. All it takes is courage and a paintbrush! :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104998
I happen to agree with Terry
 
Quote
Tanner about the LED lights -- seems that it would be such a simple upgrade, but I'll wager that when his ducks are lined up just so, Steve will make that change.
When I picked up my '08 in 04/08, Terry installed the LED lights while I did my walk-through. I asked Steve why LED tail lights were not standard equipment.
He said California law requires integral reflectors in the tail lights for any vehicle manufactured in CA. The LED lights don't have built-in reflectors. He didn't care what I (Terry) did after I took possession, but he could not install the LED lights.

Ed
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105000
On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:00 PM, Ed wrote:

Quote
When I picked up my '08 in 04/08, Terry installed the LED lights while I did my walk-through. I asked Steve why LED tail lights were not standard equipment.
He said California law requires integral reflectors in the tail lights for any vehicle manufactured in CA. The LED lights don't have built-in reflectors. He didn't care what I (Terry) did after I took possession, but he could not install the LED lights.
~~~~~~~~~ Ah HAH!  So there IS a reason.  Thanks for that tidbit Ed.  Perhaps that information will cut down on some grousing!  I learned all kinds of stuff when I complained about the upholstery choices way back when.  It's interesting how much we have to learn about what goes on behind the big and small decisions made in a motor home building business!

Lorna
2003 RB
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105002
Quote
From: Ed

I happen to agree with Terry Tanner about the LED lights -- seems that it would be such a simple upgrade, but I'll wager that when his ducks are lined up just so, Steve will make that change.
 When I picked up my '08 in 04/08, Terry installed the LED lights while I did my walk-through. I asked Steve why LED tail lights were not standard equipment.
He said California law requires integral reflectors in the tail lights for any vehicle manufactured in CA. The LED lights don't have built-in reflectors. He didn't care what I (Terry) did after I took possession, but he could not install the LED lights.
Ed
 Sounds plausible. But what about all the busses and truck tractor trailers I see with those nice round LED lights?
 Also, from my time long ago as a cop in CA (and things may have changed, though I've not heard about that), new car and vehicle lighting specs are not written by or mandated by the state or states. Rather they are mandated by the feds, DOT and they are thus uniform across the US.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105003
"I asked Steve why LED tail lights were not standard equipment.
He said California law requires integral reflectors in the taillights for any vehicle manufactured in CA. The LED lights don't have built-in reflectors."

I would like to see the regulation that requires taillights with built in reflectors.
New RVs have been sold for several years in California with LED taillights. My brother's 2005 Winnie has LEDs and plastic reflector strips, the same type of plastic reflectors that are used in the after-market LED installations.
http://tinyurl.com/kj2lmf>
 A quick reading of the California vehicle equipment law found no requirements for reflective taillights, only the requirement for reflectors that meet State and DOT requirements.

California Vehicle Code Division 12 - Equipment of Vehicles
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd12c2a3.htm> Reflectors on Rear
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd12c2a3.htm>
 DOT TRUCKS, BUSES, MPVs: FEDERAL LIGHTING EQUIPMENT LOCATION REQUIREMENTS
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/TBMpstr.html>
 My guess is Ed or Steve got a killer deal on a couple thousand taillights and there will be no upgrades until existing stock is depleted.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: For those who complain about LD's decor
Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105004
"new car and vehicle lighting specs are not written by or mandated by the state or states. Rather they are mandated by the feds, DOT and they are thus uniform across the US."
 Exactly! Federal vehicle laws supercede state laws unless the state is granted an exemption by the Feds.
A good example is California's stricter air pollution requirements, which require an EPA exemption.

I'm sticking with the big box of cheap taillights theory.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: LED taillights
Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 105012
"Steve... said California law requires integral reflectors in the tail lights for any vehicle manufactured in CA."
 When I opened the taillight cans of my 2003 LD to replace the bulbs, I found that the interiors had been spray-painted the same dark maroon as the rest of the lower part of the coach. If that's a reflector, I'm Ray Charles! ;-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"