Propane ON while driving August 11, 2009, 02:01:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104696How many Lazy Dazers are driving with the propane on for refrigeration? I am aware of the long debate on this subject regarding safety but I am wondering what LD owners have chosen to do. The LD factory suggestes that running the propane for refrigeration and furnace while driving is just fine.Thanks Keegan and Brenda[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #1 – August 11, 2009, 02:13:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104698Quote How many Lazy Dazers are driving with the propane on for refrigeration? Thanks Keegan and Brenda shhhhhhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone but I leave my fridge on propane while I drive, shut it off when re-fueling.Jerry (in Simi Valley) 2000 30IB
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #2 – August 11, 2009, 02:24:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104699Quote "How many Lazy Dazers are driving with the propane on for refrigeration?"Keegan and Brenda Keegan I for one! I did it with a TT for 10 years before I got the LD and have now continued to do it for the past five years, 15 total. I'm somewhat comforted by the fact that, on my 30IB at least, the fridge is on the off side, opposite the fuel filler. That, in my mind, lessens the chance of ignition from that source. The water heater is another matter but I rarely have it on while traveling. YMMV.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #3 – August 11, 2009, 02:27:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104700We freeze 2 half gallon milk cartons full of water and place one
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #4 – August 11, 2009, 02:48:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104702Been driving a variety of RV's with propane on since the mid-70's. I don't see any measurable risk in continuing to do so.Ed
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #5 – August 11, 2009, 03:00:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104704I have survey results on this question. More than half polled drive with propane appliances on.Stan__
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #6 – August 11, 2009, 03:20:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104705Quote from: lejest2003 I for one! I did it with a TT for 10 years before I got the LD and have now continued to do it for the past five years, 15 total. I'm somewhat comforted by the fact that, on my 30IB at least, the fridge is on the off side, opposite the fuel filler. That, in my mind, lessens the chance of ignition from that source. The water heater is another matter but I rarely have it on while traveling. YMMV. Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs keep in mind that there will probably be an aisle next to you where someone may be filling their tank right by your fridge, that's why I shut mine off when re-fuelingJerry2000 30IB
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #7 – August 11, 2009, 04:01:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104706Quotekeep in mind that there will probably be an aisle next to you where someone may be filling their tank right by your fridge, that's why I shut mine off when re-fuelingJerry 2000 30IB True enough Jerry! However, that person adjacent to me will have his vehicle acting as a buffer between my fridge and the pump nozzle from which he is fueling. Now if it's crowded and he has had to run the fuel hose over his vehicle and is pumping gas quite close to my fridge then all bets are off. I have rarely seen that sort of scenario. In most stations the pumps are located a considerable distance apart so that it is not much of a concern for me. Are there any statistics as to the frequency of RV fires in gas stations caused by propane fired appliances??? I'd bet the frequency is very low.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #8 – August 11, 2009, 04:51:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104708From: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lejest2003 Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:01 PM To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Subject: [LD] Re: Propane ON while driving
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #9 – August 11, 2009, 05:47:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104709I used to leave the fridge running on propane while driving, but eventually came to the conclusion that even though the risk of a mishap is small, no risk at all is better--and since I have a whole-house inverter, I might as well just run fridge on AC while driving. I just have to remember to switch back to gas if I'm boondocking at my destination, because if I don't, it'll drain my batteries faster than I'd like.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #10 – August 11, 2009, 06:10:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104711Quote I am aware of the long debate on this subject regarding safety but I am wondering what LD owners have chosen to do. The LD factory suggestes that running the propane for refrigeration and furnace while driving is just fine. Although Andy uses his whole-house inverter, you don't need a very big one to run the fridge on AC. Some folks buy a small one just for that purpose. Just remember to switch manually to propane when you boondock.Steve
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #11 – August 11, 2009, 06:20:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104712Quote How many Lazy Dazers are driving with the propane on for refrigeration? We have always driven with the propane on no matter what RV we've had, and that included the Lazy Daze.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #12 – August 11, 2009, 06:28:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104713I run with it on.The thing no one ever mentions is the safety switch that the fridge has(at least my '91 3 way model does). The fridge automatically shuts off for 15 minutes when the ignition is turned off or on. Yes, I suppose there is still a slim chance of ignition as you drive up to the pump. There is also a slim chance I can be struck by lightning the next time a storm comes by, but that won't stop me from going outside. Better yet, there is also a chance my fridge will be struck by lightning while I'm driving down the road with the propane on. :-) What I am trying say, is be prudent, not paranoid. I know we all have our own levels of comfort and that's fine, but now the facts/risk before making your decision.-Victor (on my way to buying a lotto ticket)
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #13 – August 11, 2009, 06:46:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104714Quote... The thing no one ever mentions is the safety switch that the fridge has(at least my '91 3 way model does). The fridge automatically shuts off for 15 minutes when the ignition is turned off or on. That safety switch was apparently discontinued some time between 1991 and 1994. My original 3-way fridge stays on when I turn off the ignition. However, the 3-ways also have that third option: running entirely on 12V. I have no idea how this might affect the battery, gas mileage, etc., but I don't use it anyway since I don't want to take a chance on forgetting to switch to gas or 120V when I park.Joanne in Boston NE-44 1994 TK
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #14 – August 11, 2009, 06:53:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104715QuoteHowever, the 3-ways also have that third option: running entirely on 12V. I have no idea how this might affect the battery, gas mileage, etc., but I don't use it anyway since I don't want to take a chance on forgetting to switch to gas or 120V when I park. If you can run the Fridge on 12v and the high powered alternator/solar panel is recharging the house bank while driving then this would seem to be the way to go, but it appears that that is not the preferred choice from the group. I am aware that in 12V DC mode the three way frig is very inefficient, but there again, the alternator should be able to keep up. HmmmmI suppose I will err on running the propne while driving unless I can get the 12vDC solution functioning.Keegan[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #15 – August 11, 2009, 07:49:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104720"That safety switch was apparently discontinued some time between 1991 and 1994."More's the pity--it was an excellent idea. "If you can run the Fridge on 12v and the high powered alternator/solar panel is recharging the house bank while driving then this would seem to be the way to go, but it appears that that is not the preferred choice from the group." Oh, I wouldn't say that--it just isn't a choice that's available to most of us, because LD hasn't installed 3-way fridges since the early 90s. Otherwise, I'm sure more of us would be doing it. As Steve was kind enough to point out, you don't *have* to have a whole-house inverter setup to run the fridge on 120VAC while driving. A $30 400W inverter would do the job, since the fridge's heating element only draws about 350 watts. Of course you'd have to get an extension cord from the inverter to the fridge's AC plug, which is in an outer compartment, but that's doable.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #16 – August 11, 2009, 10:41:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104728Quote If you can run the Fridge on 12v and the high powered alternator/solar panel is recharging the house bank while driving then this would seem to be the way to go, but it appears that that is not the preferred choice from the group. I am aware that in 12V DC mode the three way frig is very inefficient, but there again, the alternator should be able to keep up. Hmmmm If your fridge is a 3-way, know that the 12V mode is not inefficient. It is less powerful than the propane mode, but we have found it fine for keeping the fridge and freezer cold if they were already. The problem with that mode is the large current flow required to flow through various relays and switches, which tend to underperform or fail with age. The AC heater coil requires about 1/10 the current flow to keep the fridge as cold, and the inverter can be mounted close to the power source.Steve
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #17 – August 11, 2009, 11:08:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104731LD installed a three-way fridge for an extra $100. Tim Pease, working there at the time, ran a 16 gauge wire from the engine compartment to the back of the refrigerator. I hooked the 16 gauge wire to the center of the isolator at one end and the other to a 30 amp relay put in the line controlling current to the DC heater on the refrigerator. When moving, the propane tank is off and fridge is on DC. DC current only flows when the engine is running. The fridge controller doesn't seem to know or care if the engine is off and fridge not cooling. There is even a tab on the refrigerator to hold the relay. It has worked well for two years. I, too, traveled many years with propane on. One time, in a forgetful moment, I was fueling when fuel flowed under the coach, under my feet, from an adjacent island. I hurried inside and cut the pilot as soon as possible. All was well. I would never purposely drive up to a pump island with pilot on or ignitors active. The advantage of the DC system is not having to stop away from the pumps to turn ignitors and flames off or parking off level and having to turn things off. The disadvantage is, when parking level for an extended period you need to open the propane valve and turn the fridge to gas. Works for me. You do have to have a 3-way fridge.A work around with an inverter, of course, is possible. Harry
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #18 – August 12, 2009, 12:08:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 104732Steve, We purchased a 1990RB LD a couple of years ago anticipating being able to use it more at some point in time. We are approaching that point and I have been using the the exchange of comments by members to build my knowledge base on the best practices for using and maintaining the LD. Our unit had 23,000 miles on it when purchased and we have put about 5,000 on it. I have been interested in the comments about driving with propane on. I received the original LD operating manual and specifications with the unit. The manual reads that it is OK to run the frig (3 way) on 12V while driving, but it is not recommended due to the load placed on the alternator and the loss of gas mileage. Either I read or assumed that it was not safe to leave the propane on. Therefore, we have kept ice in the frig as much as space would allow to get through each day on the road. It would be great to be comfortable using the 12V feature. Your comment that it is efficient is the first time I have heard this. My question is, is there a reasonable way to bypass the relays and switches and, therefore, avoid wearing them out prematurely if the 12V feature is used? I am not uncomfortable with trying to work on or modify the mechanisims and systems in the LD as long as I am sure that I understand how they function and how modifications might impact them. At this time, I am still a little "green" on the combination engine charging/AC/inverter functions but I from what I have read, I am most concerned about overloading the alternator. Can you add any further comments that might improve my confidence on using the 12V feature while driving. Our Ford 460 engine has averaged 7-8 mpg. I would rather not change anything that would lower that further. I don't know about newer models but the 1990 model's gas tank size limits us to about 200 miles between fueling stops. That is probably the thing that I am most disappointed with. Overall, I really like the LD.Jim in NC
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #19 – August 13, 2009, 03:59:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104802We had a three way installed in our '99 and really like the 12 volt, it will not chill from warm, but will maintain when already cold and on the road. Had to fight Ed tooth and nail to get it, must have been a slow time and he needed the sale!Carl #2671
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #20 – August 17, 2009, 07:58:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104991Where did install the whole-house inverter?We are considering doing the same. David and Verna 2004 26.5 MB__
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #21 – August 17, 2009, 09:33:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104995Quote From: David Renggli To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [LD] Re: Propane ON while drivingWhere did install the whole-house inverter?We are considering doing the same. David and Verna 2004 26.5 MBDavid and Verna, While not Andy, I have an MB (Yonder) and a whole house inverter (Prosine). I installed the inverter on its edge on the front wall of the driver side outside storage compartment. Here, as I'm sure Andy will agree, one doesn't have to listen to a cooling fan kicking on and off. It's close to the factory battery box (very important to keep wire runs to a minimum if possible). And it's conventient from a wiring perspective, as it's easy to remove the inside walls from the compartment below the fridge in order to gain access to a considerable area for routing wires. If you are installing a larger inverter or and inverter/charger like the Prosine, then you should also consider venting. On the Prosine, air is sucked into the front of the unit and exhausted out the back via a "muffin" fan. I simply fabricated a duct from plastic pipe and routed it out the inboard wall of the compartment. I installed a deflector shield on the outside of the compartment to keep water out of that exhaust. Then on the rear wall of the compartment, in cut a couple of vent holes and used caulk to stick some hardware cloth on them to keep any vermin out. A most workable solution from a storage standpoint as well, as the on-edge Prosine doesn't take up much room and the compartment isn't lost storage space. Pictures should be in the Yonder solar album - - haven't checked in awhile.bumper Minden NV
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #22 – August 17, 2009, 09:52:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104997"Where did [you] install the whole-house inverter?" Mike Sylvester installed my proSINE 2.0 inverter in the outside storage compartment just below the battery compartment of my midbath. This allowed him to keep the cables to the batteries as short as possible--an important consideration, since with the microwave oven running, the inverter draws upwards of 130 amps. Mike used AWG 0000 ("four ought") cable, again to ensure minimal resistive losses at high currents. It was an expensive upgrade, but I've been very happy with it. One caution: be sure the inverter gets plenty of ventilation. I cut holes in the plastic storage bin to allow it to "breathe."Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Propane ON while driving Reply #23 – August 18, 2009, 02:12:59 am Yahoo Message Number: 105005QuoteMy question is, is there a reasonable way to bypass the relays and switches and, therefore, avoid wearing them out prematurely if the 12V feature is used? Not really. Sorry it took so long to answer - I missed your post until now. The relays allow the high current required for the 12V heater coil to be supplied without excessive wear or heat to the mode switchover and temperature control circuitry, and to allow the ignition switch contacts to activate that mode without burning out that switch. For those who have a 12V mode and can service and maintain the related wiring and circuits, it may be worth the effort. Most of that can be reduced, and with much less component wear, by the use of an inverter and AC mode. There are solid-state relays that could be used instead, which would last indefinitely without problems, but there are voltage drops they would introduce which reduce cooling effectiveness, as well as phantom loads on the battery during idle periods that could drain it. A better solution would be to have the mechanical relays replaced when they get old. As far as efficiency - what most folks are probably referring to is reduced cooling effectiveness in the 12V mode. The 12V heater is just not as powerful as the 110VAC heater, and both are less than the propane burner.Steve
Propane ON Reply #24 – August 11, 2009, 08:09:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 104721"If you can run the Fridge on 12v and the high powered alternator/solar panel is recharging the house bank while driving then this would seem to be the way to go, but it appears that that is not the preferred choice from the group." Oh, I wouldn't say that--it just isn't a choice that's available to most of us, because LD hasn't installed 3-way fridges since the early 90s. Otherwise, I'm sure more of us would be doing it." I figured there was a good reason people were not using 12V. Are the three way fridges less reliable, or more expensive? Seems like people would have liked having three choices instead of two but it appears that the food is staying cold either way for folks.Keegan[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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