Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

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August 03, 2009, 12:34:49 am

If you don't have a Progressive EMS Surge Protector - get one installed!!!
After almost 2 years, this last week we learned the wonderful blessing of our hard wired EMS protector - It is a "Protector" for sure:
We were staying in rv park near Cheyenne WY to visit old haunts of Jim's younger days - first night around midnight power shuts down, we're fumbling around to see what is matter - shine that tiny LED flashlight on the flashing EMS monitor to see we are "Over Voltage" to the tune of 139 volts - Bless that protector 'o)to shut us down and save our beautiful Starr -
Next morning went to rv park office to request another space to learn the whole park had been hit by lightening the week before - Oh Joy - they reluctantly moved us, but this did not solve the issue of spiking voltage as the next night same happening, but we were prepared then for our EMS to take care of us and keep us safe -
Moral of story - we are so grateful to Andy for recommending the hard wired EMS and Mike S. for installing it into our new LD upon delivery back in October '07 -

Virginia, Jim and Cricket Full-timing & not a clue as to next stopping point 'o) Starr '07 Red 26.5RB Midnight Roadie '07 Black Matrix This week visiting Kent Foster in Bozeman MT

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #1 – August 03, 2009, 09:55:45 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104435

wrote:
If you don't have a Progressive EMS Surge Protector - get one installed!!! --- An EMS from Progressive (or Surge Guard) is an essential piece of equipment, IMO; the one I have now and the two I had previously have done their "save the wiring" jobs well on several occasions.
This is the link to the hard-wired unit from Progressive; they also offer a version with a remote readout:
http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_lchw30.htm

This page shows the portable EMS; I have this one and it works exactly the same as the wired-in product:
http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_pt30c.htm

No, the units are not cheap, but I'm quite sure that their cost(s) is/are a *whole* lot less than repairing or replacing fried motorhome wiring. YMMV.

Joan

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #2 – August 03, 2009, 12:20:37 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104442

"If you don't have a Progressive EMS Surge Protector - get one installed!!!"
Just this weekend, while parked in our friend's driveway we had our Progressive EMS Surge Protector shut the power off.
We were plugged into a 120-VAC circuit in the garage that turned out to be half of 220 circuit used to run a swimming pool pump. The LD's A/C was running when the pool pump's timer started the pump. The power the leg we were using dropped to less than 100-volts, causing the surge protector to kick out. Turned out that the garage plug was a bootleg installation. I will soon be installing a properly wire 30-amp outlet in their garage.
The Progressive EMS Surge Protector has also found two improperly wired outlets (ground and neutral wires reversed).
It's a good device to have (thanks Joan Taylor for convincing the wife that we needed one!).

Larry

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #3 – August 03, 2009, 12:51:07 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104447

"If you don't have a Progressive EMS Surge Protector - get one installed!!!"
Not much needed if you only boondock and never hook up to crumby campsite power!
The Prosine 2.0 (inverter / charger) provides automatic load switching, when incoming line voltage goes out of spec, for everything except the air conditioner when installed as a whole house inverter. It also provides some measure of protection for the air conditioner as it will go into alarm and warn you if the voltage/frequency goes too high or low.

bumper Yonder Minden, NV

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #4 – August 03, 2009, 01:51:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104449

"Not much needed if you only boondock and never hook up to crumby campsite power!"

bumper
You have NEVER plugged your LD into shore power, even in your hanger?

Larry

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #5 – August 03, 2009, 03:42:02 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104454

The timing of this thread is great for our purposes. We live in lightning country and stay at some places with hookups and others without. I've been considering installing one of these EMS units since the quality of the power sources varies considerably. To those of you that have done it, where did you put the remote display? The big issue for my wife is that she doesn't want me cutting holes all over our new rig, so I have to be sure that I'll only need to make one. I won't go into why she doesn't want to set me loose with power tools. Of course we could go with the portable model, but I noticed that the hard wired version has a three year warranty versus a one year for the portable. I would guess that the unit itself can go in with the existing power converter which in our case is under the rear dinette seat. We have a 2008 24' front dinette. Thanks for any ideas or experiences.

Larry Jones

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #6 – August 03, 2009, 04:53:19 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104456

"To those of you that have done it, where did you put the remote display? The big issue for my wife is that she doesn't want me cutting holes all over our new rig"

Larry

Our LD has the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C with remote monitor.
The remote monitor is surfaced mounted and connected to the main box with a small telephone-type connector wire. There are no big holes to drill.
In most floor plans, the main box is located near or next to the converter.
Below is a photo of the monitor in our 2003 23.5'FL. Your FD should be similar.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157603766438572/>

Feel free to ask questions.

Larry

Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #7 – August 03, 2009, 04:59:01 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104457

I've been considering installing one of these EMS units since the quality of the power sources varies considerably. To those of you that have done it, where did you put the remote display?
Larry, I recently installed a built-in EMS unit in my 23.5 TK. I put it in the compartment where the black rubber-coated shore power cable is stored. There is a junction box where the shore power cable splices to house wiring which leads to the converter. I simply replaced the junction box with the EMS. As to where to put the remote I can't advise you on, since my rig is different from yours and besides you don't want to drill a hole as I did. However, I am sure there is a spot to mount it which may or may not be at eye level. I wanted my display at eye level even though the install entailed drilling a hole.
Tom Johnston Red 2000 TK, Whidbey Island, WA......79 degrees, dry and pretty nice

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #8 – August 03, 2009, 05:15:35 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104458

Thanks Larry and Tom for your help. I should clarify that I am allowed to drill holes, but not more than one for a specific purpose. I was concerned about fishing the remote cord up to the area around the solar panel display since we have solid foam insulation in our rig. However, I like the idea of having the monitor at eye level, so I'll do some head scratching and figure it out.

Larry Jones

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #9 – August 03, 2009, 05:47:44 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104460

"However, I like the idea of having the monitor at eye level, so I'll do some head scratching and figure it out."

Larry
Getting the monitor wire from the converter to the overhead kitchen cabinet is a challenge.
Use surface mount wire guide for the wall area between the seat and the side window valance. Run the wire up the inside the valance, up into the hollow bottom of the lounge's overhead cabinet. Pry up the false bottom of the overhead cabinet. It is held down with staples. Remove the staples and use small sheet metal or wood screws when reattaching. Inside the hollow area, drill a hole rearward into the kitchen's overhead cabinet, entering the wire into the empty area behind the microwave (remove the microwave, it's only four screws).
Make sure the holes will not be visible before drilling (keep the wife happy).
The rear of the monitor is accessed from the inside of the microwave's cabinet. Drill the wire's exit hole next to the monitor location. The monitor screws onto the cabinet wall.
I like to use double-sided tape to mount things because it is removable without causing any damage. Once you are happy with the location, then install the screws.

Easy to type, a whole lot more work to do.
Have fun! Larry

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #10 – August 03, 2009, 06:10:31 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104461

Larry,
Thanks for the additional info. I believe that I can do the job with your instructions. That amp hour gauge is another neat upgrade. Now I have to have a conference with SWMBO regarding that one little tiny hole in the wall...

Larry Jones

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #11 – August 03, 2009, 08:37:52 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104462

Quote

Larry,
Thanks for the additional info. I believe that I can do the job with your instructions. That amp hour gauge is another neat upgrade. Now I have to have a conference with SWMBO regarding that one little tiny hole in the wall...

Larry Jones

SWMBO = She who must be obeyed???

Chris

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #12 – August 03, 2009, 09:03:31 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104463

Quote

This page shows the portable EMS; I have this one and it works exactly the same as the wired-in product:
http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_pt30c.htm

Thanks, Joan - their specs mention a Lock Bracket to prevent theft - is it sufficient or have you added more security?

Barb & Gypsy Encinitas, CA

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #13 – August 03, 2009, 11:34:36 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104465

Yeah, Chris. That's it. Of course I am JBF...just being facetious...after 31 years of marriage, one learns to negotiate certain things. Kathy and I had a Fleetwood Jamboree many moons ago when the boys were young, and I got tired of fixing it, so I sold it. Five years later, after I realized that she would not go Jeeping with me and sleep in the backpacking tent, I said if we buy another motorhome, it has to be a Lazy daze and I have to be able to tow the Jeep. So, here we are. Broke and happy.

Larry Jones

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #14 – August 04, 2009, 12:33:52 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104466

Quote

From: Larry W
To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: [LD] Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

"Not much needed if you only boondock and never hook up to crumby campsite power!"

bumper
You have NEVER plugged your LD into shore power, even in your hanger?

Larry

Not saying that, Larry. However, where I do plug in, there is good quality AC power. "Yonder" lives at my house in a purpose build RV garage-shop with it's own 200 amp service. Plus, when it is plugged into shore power, most of the time all appliances are turned off, save for the Prosine's battery charger.

In 4 years, we've only plugged in to an RV park AC mains one time - - and I have no intention of doing that again as I'd really rather boondock. During that one civilized stay, the Prosine indicated the incoming AC was fine and there were no alarms.
At home, do you have a whole house surge protector? I don't. I do for only select stuff like my audio visual equipment which has a surge protected UPS.
There is no protections for things like the HVAC, appliances or most outlets. Why would my Lazy Daze require more protection than the other equipment at my home?
Okay, I'll admit that the LD does already have more protection than the stuff at home. "Yonder's" Prosine acts like a big UPS, switching over to inverter if the incoming AC goes out of spec.

all the best,

bumper

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #15 – August 04, 2009, 01:27:21 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104467

"At home, do you have a whole house surge protector?"

bumper

You mean one of these? :-)
http://tinyurl.com/m4g2u3>
http://xponenta.com/cgi/shop.cgi?page_type=detail&sku=4870>

Nah, but I have thought about it. I am suprised how cheap they are.
I do have the computer stuff on a UPS and the rest of the home electronics on surge protectors.
We stay out of RV parks as much as possible but surges or other electrical problems can occur almost anywhere, like I reported in this morning's posting.
When it's hot, my wife insists on the A/C so we will plug into almost any circuit when necessary. She could care less about the quality of the electrical service, that's my `problem'. I try to be prepared for the predictable problems.
Make sure to camp in cool places where shore power isn't necessary.

Larry

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #16 – August 04, 2009, 03:34:35 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104468

Quote

From: Larry W
To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:27 PM
Subject: [LD] Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

"At home, do you have a whole house surge protector?"
No. When I lived in CA, I visited several thousand homes and never saw one.
I'm a licensed electrician in CA. Haven't seen one installed in NV either.
Perhaps they are used back where lightning is a real problem . . . Florida??
Now most telephone lines have a rudimentary protector where the lines enter the house . . . but not the AC.

bumper

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #17 – August 04, 2009, 03:46:05 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104490

....We stay out of RV parks as much as possible but surges or other electrical problems can occur almost anywhere...Make sure to camp in cool places where shore power isn't necessary.

Quote

Larry

It is not just "staying in rv parks" in relation to having surge protection - but also the fact that Gen-Sets can spike -
Thus the shore power line as well as gen-set are wired through the EMS Surge Protector on Starr to protect from either source -

Virginia, Jim & Cricket Starr & Midnight Roadie Enjoying Montana

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #18 – August 05, 2009, 12:48:34 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104519

Thanks for bring up this issue of the EMS surge protector again. We just orderd the portable EMS from Tweety's

Question is how do you secure it to the pedestal ?

Thank Lenore and Gary

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #19 – August 05, 2009, 01:17:11 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104522

...Question is how do you secure it to the pedestal ?

Quote

Thank Lenore and Gary

Hi Lenore and Gary -

There are several ways to secure the portable Surge Protector:
I've seen over the years a tight clamp with lock on surge guard and attached via chain/cable to the pedestal or coach electrical cord -
Others keep the portable inside a storage unit then run electrical cord to it, this is the safest -

Use your imagination and you'll do fine -

Virginia

Starr and Midnight Roadie
Enjoying Montana

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #20 – August 05, 2009, 04:12:00 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104523

"Question is how do you secure it to the pedestal ?"

Gary
The best way to secure a surge protector is to get a hard-wired model instead of the portable.
Once it is installed, it does it job automatically, all you need to do is to plug into shore power.

Larry

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #21 – August 05, 2009, 10:02:55 am

Yahoo Message Number: 104526

Quote

"...Question is how do you secure it to the pedestal ?"

Thank Lenore and Gary

http://www.trci.net/products/surge-guard/sg-lock-hasp This is a link to a lock hasp for the 30 amp portable Surge Guard. Click on lock hasp instructions to see a rendering of how it works.
If you are asking how it works at the pedestal rather than how to keep it from being stolen, the surge guard simply hangs from the outlet on the pedestal and then you plug your RV electrical cord into it.
I have a length of chain and a padlock and I wrap the chain around the Surge Guard to secure it to the pedestal.
This is a graphic representation of why a Surge Guard is great protection to have: http://www.elepent.com/2009/07/surge-protection-is-good/

Chris

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #22 – August 05, 2009, 04:24:27 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104536

"The best way to secure a surge protector is to get a hard-wired model instead of the portable. Once it is installed, it does its job automatically, all you need to do is to plug into shore power."

Amen! And of course it can't be stolen.
As has been pointed out here in the past, by the time you add up the higher purchase cost of a portable unit plus the mandatory locks, chains, etc., you've paid as much as an installed unit would cost... but what you have is much less satisfactory. It can still be stolen by anybody with a pair of bolt cutters; it's exposed to the elements (portables are known to have a higher failure rate)... and it's one more thing to set up and take down every time you move.
For all these reasons--cost, security, reliability, and convenience--a hardwired unit is the best way to go, in my humble opinion.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #23 – August 05, 2009, 04:58:17 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104540

wrote: "by the time you add up the higher purchase cost of a portable unit plus the mandatory locks, chains, etc., you've paid as much as an installed unit would cost... but what you have is much less satisfactory."
It's true that the initial cost of the portable is higher than the hardwired unit, but since I don't have the expertise to install the hardwired unit myself, I'd have to pay somebody to do this; I suspect that, factoring in the installation labor costs, the total costs of the hardwired unit would be considerably higher than the portable.

"It can still be stolen by anybody with a pair of bolt cutters"
Yes, theft is a concern, but a cable and lock reduces the risk considerably.
"it's exposed to the elements (portables are known to have a higher failure rate)..."
I made a simple Goretex "rain jacket" sleeve for my EMS; I did the same thing for the EMS I had previously. If a person is concerned about the EMS being exposed to the weather and isn't able to sew a covering, a plastic bag offers functional, albeit temporary, protection.
"and it's one more thing to set up and take down every time you move."

This process takes *very little* time during set-up and take-down.
"For all these reasons--cost, security, reliability, and convenience--a hardwired unit is the best way to go, in my humble opinion."
An addtional point: I didn't want to give over any compartment space in my TK for the installation of the hard-wired unit. The driver's side rear compartment where the unit would be installed already is plenty full!
For me, the only real drawback to using the portable EMS is that it's only "on" when hooked up to shore power; if I'm using the generator and it decides to hork out some "dirty" power, yes, the rig's systems are vulnerable. But, since I seldom use the genset except to exercise it, I haven't really worried about it. The portable EMS works well for me, but, as ever, YMMV! ;-)

Joan

Re: Blessings of the EMS Surge Protector

Reply #24 – August 05, 2009, 07:24:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 104542

Quote

If you don't have a Progressive EMS Surge Protector - get one installed!!!
After almost 2 years, this last week we learned the wonderful blessing of our hard wired EMS protector

Sorry to be responding to a days-old post, but I'm just catching up with emails after some non-LD travel.
Just wanted to weigh in with an additional benefit of the portable Progressive unit. All the protection of the hard-wired model, with one plus. We checked into Pederales Falls State Park in Texas recently and were assigned a site. We did the usual back-in, level, then went to hook up to the pedestal. The Progressive showed a reverse polarity, which was the first fault code we had seen in our travels with the unit. I walked the unit over to another site. Open ground fault. Yikes. Walked to another site. Open ground fault. Double Yikes. Walked to a fourth site and got a clean reading. So, the "plus" is that I could just walk around instead of having to maneuver the rig all over the place.
Yes, I do recognize that having to lock it (length of chain and padlock) is a small PITA, but it hasn't been that big a deal.
Clearly, regardless of hard-wired or portable, these things are potential rig-savers.

--Jon ('06TK "Albatross")

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August 03, 2009, 12:34:49 am

Reply #1 – August 03, 2009, 09:55:45 am

Reply #2 – August 03, 2009, 12:20:37 pm

Reply #3 – August 03, 2009, 12:51:07 pm

Reply #4 – August 03, 2009, 01:51:41 pm

Reply #5 – August 03, 2009, 03:42:02 pm

Reply #6 – August 03, 2009, 04:53:19 pm

Reply #7 – August 03, 2009, 04:59:01 pm

Reply #8 – August 03, 2009, 05:15:35 pm

Reply #9 – August 03, 2009, 05:47:44 pm

Reply #10 – August 03, 2009, 06:10:31 pm

Reply #11 – August 03, 2009, 08:37:52 pm

Reply #12 – August 03, 2009, 09:03:31 pm

Reply #13 – August 03, 2009, 11:34:36 pm

Reply #14 – August 04, 2009, 12:33:52 am

Reply #15 – August 04, 2009, 01:27:21 am

Reply #16 – August 04, 2009, 03:34:35 am

Reply #17 – August 04, 2009, 03:46:05 pm

Reply #18 – August 05, 2009, 12:48:34 am

Reply #19 – August 05, 2009, 01:17:11 am

Reply #20 – August 05, 2009, 04:12:00 am

Reply #21 – August 05, 2009, 10:02:55 am

Reply #22 – August 05, 2009, 04:24:27 pm

Reply #23 – August 05, 2009, 04:58:17 pm

Reply #24 – August 05, 2009, 07:24:39 pm

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