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Dreaded parking brake leak (sorry, this is long)
Yahoo Message Number: 103966
Hi Group,
 After noticing a few damp spots under our 2003 rig, I crawled underneath to find the source. It appears that our rig has the dreaded parking brake leak.
 If you aren't familiar with this issue, I'll give you the short and condensed version. You can read more about it by searching the archives.
 On the Ford E 450 chassis, Ford uses a transmission mounted parking/emergency brake that contains automatic transmission fluid. It mounts between the transmission and the drive shaft. If the fluid leaks out of this parking brake, it can lead to transmission failure. I've also noted that some have blamed driving with the parking brake on can lead to this problem. (I have not done that!)From what other's have posted, Ford has not had a repair available, only replacement of the system. It has been posted that the part alone is over $1000 + labor. This problem is not uncommon and Ford has issued technical service bulletines about the problem. As far as I know, Ford has *not* extended any warranty on this part. And it has not been involved in any recall campaigns that I can find.
 I've also read that Larry W. has been asking that if someone has this replaced, he would like to get his hands on the leaking unit to see if it can be repaired.
 Last year, I found an independent repair shop that services everything from lawn equipment to commercial duty trucks. They repair a lot of RVs too. (When I visited them two days ago, they were even doing a recall on a Norcold refrigerator, apparently Dometic is not alone!) The service manager was well aquainted with the leaking parking brake issue.
I enquired how much they would charge to replace the unit. They told me to bring the rig in next week so they could confirm the problem but that they could *rebuild* my leaking parking brake (as Larry W has been suspecting) for around $400 in labor plus parts. And those would most likely be seals and gaskets, it depends on what they find when they look at it.

Two questions:
 I was wondering if anyone has had this problem fixed with a rebuild instead of full replacement?
 Also, has anyone had any luck getting Ford to cover repairs or replacement? (Like that is going to happen, right?)
 If you have a rig on the E450, you might want to check your rig for the problem. Our's is a 2003 and has 76,000 well maintained miles on it. And don't yell at me, but I don't use the parking brake, ever.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Dreaded parking brake leak (sorry, this is long)
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104035
"I enquired how much they would charge to replace the unit. They told me to bring the rig in next week so they could confirm the problem but that they could *rebuild* my leaking parking brake"

Steve K
 Do keep us posted on how this turns out. If they can rebuild, see it you can get the part number for the seal and any other parts they use.
If they end up replacing the whole unit, I sure would like to have a look at it.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104171
Quote
"I enquired how much they would charge to replace the unit. They told me to bring the rig in next week so they could confirm the problem but that they could *rebuild* my leaking parking brake" Steve K
 Do keep us posted on how this turns out. If they can rebuild, see it you can get the part number for the seal and any other parts they use.
If they end up replacing the whole unit, I sure would like to have a look at it.
Larry
Hi Larry,
 I got my rig back on Friday after having the leaking parking brake repaired/rebuilt. I've learned a few things about this problem during the last week. Hopefully some of the group will learn from this.
 A little background for the group. On the E450 chassis, the parking brake is mounted on the rear of the transmission and is connected to the drive shaft. The parking brake housing contains 4 ounces of transmission fluid. A loss of fluid can lead to even more expensive damage to the transmission. Posts in the archives have indicated that this part was not repairable; the only repair was an expensive replacement of the parking brake unit. I believe the replacement usually ran over $1200; failure to catch the problem in time could lead to serious transmission repair or replacement. There is an good article about checking the fluid level on Terry's excellent Technoz website including a photo of the fill plug.

***Don't overlook this item!!!!***
 By the time you notice drip marks under your rig, which are around the size of a silver dollar under the parking brake unit, it will probably be too late to prevent more damage. Those drips are usually caused by the parking brake unit becoming overheated........ and by that time you will probably experience damage to your parking brake unit like I did. But if you check the fluid level or have your servicing shop do it when they change your engine oil, perhaps you can prevent the overheating issue. Another cause of overheating this part is driving with the parking brake engaged.
 I think the problem has become more common and Ford now has rebuild kits for this unit. When I was told my parking brake unit could be rebuilt, I was quoted a labor figure that included removal an the rebuilding of the unit which I thought would be a few seals and gaskets. Once the unit was taken apart, it was discovered that some bearings in the unit had overheated and needed replacing. Those weren't cheap either.
 Larry, if you are going to try to repair one of these, Ford does have some diagrams of the unit taken apart. I saw it at the repair shop but it had been discarded when I returned for my rig.
 Here is the parts list and prices, which you requested: All are Ford parts.

E8TZ-2L607-A.......Gasket $55.12 E8TZ-2L602-A.......Bushing 47.63 E8TZ-2L602-A......Bearing assembly 73.03 E8TZ-2L603-A......Bearing assembly  106.75 E8TZ-2L606-A......Gasket  69.42 5534 Transmission to brake gasket  16.15
 I think if I had caught my problem earlier, I would not have needed the two bearing assemblies. but who knows?
 Hope the info about checking the fluid level helps someone avoid problems.

Steve K.
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 104269
"if you are going to try to repair one of these, Ford does have some diagrams of the unit taken apart. I saw it at the repair shop but it had been discarded when I returned for my rig.
Here is the parts list and prices, which you requested: All are Ford parts.

E8TZ-2L607-A.......Gasket $55.12 E8TZ-2L602-A.......Bushing 47.63 E8TZ-2L602-A......Bearing assembly 73.03 E8TZ-2L603-A......Bearing assembly 106.75 E8TZ-2L606-A......Gasket 69.42 5534 Transmission to brake gasket 16.15"

Steve K

Thanks for the update and the part numbers.
I sure would like to see the diagram. There seems to be too many gaskets and no seals.
Still, its good to see that they are rebuildable.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147471
Steve K. and Larry,
 I do not know  in which year these above conversations took place. However, these are of much interest to me since I am stranded and confronted with this situation in Northern Oregon at this moment.
Never having noticed any leaks from this unit, combined with ignorance on my part to check the fluid, I am debating to either have the unit rebuild or replaced entirely. I am leaning over to replacement for the following reason: The shop working on our Lazy Daze is having problems disassembling the parking brake unit. Some parts that should slide off the shaft are frozen to the splines. Being Friday afternoon the work will continue on Monday.
 Although I could not find it on the internet.there was another post on the Lazy Daze website not to rebuilt but to replace the brake unit.
 JFI: The referred articles above were shown to me by a well-established major diesel truck dealer and repair facility in Northern Oregon,
 Needles to say that your opinions and those of others will be very much appreciated.

Aad Rommelse
2001 MB
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147475
Aan

Sorry about the brake, it's an expensive device .
Unless things have changed, the parking brake is not designed to be rebuilt.
The Ford service manual barely mentions it.

A note to the rest of you who own E450s with the transmission mounted parking brakes, check the oil!!! Recently another LD owner I know had their parking brake seize, destroying itself and entire transmission.
A really expensive repair.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147480
What oil should I check? The regular engine oil? The tranny fluid? Or is  there something special?

Thanks Mary Lou

From:mailto:lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:45 PM [.....]

A note to the rest of you who own E450s with the transmission mounted  parking brakes, check the oil!!! [.....] Larry
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147483
The parking brake assembly on our E-450s is filled with an oil (ATF?).  There is a fill plug hidden on top of the unit.  Many (most?) Ford techs don't even know about it.  You have to get a wrench up on top to remove the plug and check if the oil is nearly to the top.  The brake assembly is mounted at the rear of the transmission.

HTH, Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147484
On the home page of the message board's website, use the 'Search Conversations' bar with the phrase 'E450 parking brake reservoir' and you'll find a bunch of posts and, hopefully, Larry's link to his Flickr photos of the brake's reservoir fill cap.

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....long but im
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147485
Aad, I'm sorry you are stranded with this problem. I can only imagine what it feels like to be on the road with a serious problem like this.

I (Steve K.) made the post about the parking brake repair that you referred to in your request for information. I had the parking brake on my 2003 LD (Ford E450 chassis) rebuilt in July of 2009; my rig had around 76,000 miles on it at the time.  I currently have around 118,000 miles on it. Last year, I did loosen the plug on the parking brake to make sure the fluid was still at the proper level; so far so good.

Since this was 5 years ago, I don't recall exactly how much replacement of the parking brake would have cost. I think a replacement parking brake unit was over $1000 plus the labor to replace it. My records indicate that the parts for this repair ran around $350 and the labor was around $400 for removal and rebuilding the unit and reinstalling it. This repair was done at an independent repair facility and they were well aware of the leaking parking brakes on these motorhomes. They had an service diagram of the parking brake and all of its parts.

I would be curious as to what a Ford dealer would do about this problem; repair or replace? IF it were a safety issue, I think there would be numerous complaints to the Feds. about it and maybe Ford would address it.

Your post made reference to parts being "frozen to the splines"; hopefully your parking brakes failure hasn't damaged the transmission too.

Good luck to you and please keep us posted.

Steve K>
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: Dreaded parking brake leak (sorry, this is long)
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147486
How do I determine if I have this type of brake/transmission design (2004 RB)? Is it just a matter of checking the ATF level?  Thanks--Ted
Re: Dreaded parking brake leak (sorry, this is long)
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147487
Ted, the parking brake fluid reservoir and the transmission fluid reservoir are two different animals. Several of us have dealt with this problem; this link should help clarify the issue and how to check the reservoir level. The E-450 is the only one to have the transmission-mounted parking brake; don't rely on the Ford service department to even know that the parking brake is 'unique', let alone where the fill cap is or even that the job has to be done.

The Lazy Daze Companion: Parking Brake

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Fw: [LD] Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ....lo
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147488
Steve,

Although I do not like to spent money on repairs as a result of my ignorance, I hope that this subject will get enough attention again to avoid similar expenses to other Lazy Daze owners. I really thought that this was a self-sealed unit. Even the shop, which does also big truck repairs, had to do quite a bit of research in addition to my own. They even showed me your  post.

Despite this little setback and interruption of our travels Mary and I consider this as part of "Life on the Road". Being morally responsible for our daughter's Lazy Daze I already past my experience on to her. Needless to say that I'll be checking their fluid as soon as I return home again.

Thanks for your response.

Aad Rommelse

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:02 AM, nukamper2000  wrote:

.
2001 MB
Re: Fw: [LD] Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ..
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147490
I have heard of people driving off with the parking brake engaged and ruining it. I did this in my LD once but it only cost me a set of brake shoes since I have the older e350 chassis with the cable operated rear parking brake. Wondering why Ford didn't install some kind of interlock preventing from engaging reverse or drive when parking brake activated.

Bob 01 23.5 TK, Jeep Cherokee Toad
Re: Fw: [LD] Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ..
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147491
"Wondering why Ford didn't install some kind of interlock preventing from engaging reverse or drive when parking brake activated."

--- I've driven off once with the parking brake on (polarized dark glasses 'mute' the red indicator light), but it was a very short trip; the 'drive feel' was so draggy that I came to and realized that the brake was on! Haven't done it since, but that's not saying that it couldn't happen.... ;-)

You might want to check Terry Tanner's 'Techsnoz' site for the PDF on installing a 'buzzer' to warn that the brake is on; it's titled 'BrakeBuz.pdf'

Joan
2003 TK has a new home
Re: Fw: [LD] Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake ..
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147496
Hi Group, After reading all these post I crawled under our motor home to see if I was included in this problem.......  Sure enough, it looks like I have a leak, however, the leak is on the underside of the chassis directly above the parking break drum as if centrical force has sprayed it up there. The fluid does not look recent but I was able to wipe it off with a little labor and some cleaner.

I've located what I believe to be the bolt /plug for the ATF filler hole but I've been unable to loosen and remove it. This bolt (3/4" socket) is directly behind the drum, on the drivers side and above the main housing. What appears to be a breather plug is on the top of the housing.

Questions:

1. Do you think I have the correct plug? Nothing else looks even close
2. Any suggestions on how to loosen the plug so I can add ATF or at least inspect the level?

We're currently camped in the Moresfield Campground at Mesa Verdi National Park. As most everyone would be I'm a little afraid to drive the coach now that I've discovered this problem.
 One last question, does anyone know a shop that is close to our location that might be able to do the work?
 Sorry to lean on everyone for some help but it sure would be appreciated.....

Ted Collmar
Ted C.
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake -- Now--Things t
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147500
Seems like this subject pops up every few years, as if it was previously unknown.
Jonna amd Mimi have the dubious award for being the first here to report to have a parking brake burn up,  about 10 years ago. That's a blast from the past for us old timers.
 The transmission mounted parking brake came about when Ford started building wide-bodies, they needed a rear axle that were a few inches wider. They had nothing that would fit so they patched together an axle without the traditional parking brake mounted at each rear wheel.. Instead, they they went back to the vaults and installed a parking brake installed on the rear of the transmission which is attached to the drive shaft. This style was common back on trucks back in the 30's and 40's.
The down side of the transmission brake is if one rear wheel is lifted, the vehicle will roll away, due to the differential allowing the free wheel to spin. Also having only one set of brake linings, it's less powerful the than newer style brakes.
 Here is a set of photos showing where the parking brake is and where the 17-MM head plug is located.
The fluid level should be at the level of the hole or slightly lower. It uses the same fluid as the transmission.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157627503762313/show
 I have never seen one rebuilt but it seems that someone has figured it out.
I check the oil annually but check for leaks often. Look for signs of oil and dirt, on the bottom of the sheet metal floor, spun out from the rear of the brake drum, a visual sign of oil leakage and the dirt that will stick to it.
 Any shop with a mechanic smart enough to find the brake can check and service it. There is no recommend change interval, nor a drain plug. As long as the remaining oil looks and smells OK (not burnt), top it off and leave it alone. I have found near new LDs, with no signs of leakage,  low on oil.
To simply the filling the brake, use a small hand pump with a long tube.
When you do go to the mechanics, take of copy of the photos above with you, you will most likely need them to convince the mechanic of the brake's existence.

Parts diagram https://www.google.com/search?q=E450+parking+brake+repair&tbm=isch&imgil=gT8HkzFsxiBw4M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQJtH9oNDJ_KMl0JfWtwpxC3q_EfFsJ93F7gvOMs36BqfJ_Frmf%253B576%253B395%253B71q0NcQHBembgM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fstore.stepvanparts.com%25252FEMERGENCY-DRIVE-LINE-BRAKE-PARTS.HTM&source=iu&usg=__Zrh6raU5sALRLp9FFFzm7RrxVFU%3D&sa=X&ei=XTXMU9P0B5Gm8QG95oD4Ag&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAA&biw=1536&bih=743#facrc=_&imgrc=gT8HkzFsxiBw4M%253A%3B71q0NcQHBembgM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.millsupply.com%252Fimg%252Fpage%252Fbk.edlbp.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstore.stepvanparts.com%252FEMERGENCY-DRIVE-LINE-BRAKE-PARTS.HTM%3B576%3B395 New brake http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-OEM-PARKING-BRAKE-ASSEMBLY-2004-07-FORD-ECONOLINE-E-450-6C2Z-2598-AA-/321429940936?_trksid=p2054897.l5669 Used brake- for the 5R110 but has the same same part number. Good chance it is interchangeable and the brake lining and hardware are replaceable. If doing it myself, I might give this a try if confronted with a $1200 alternative http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-6-0-OEM-6C2Z-2598-5R110W-Parking-Brake-DRIVESHAFT-BRAKE-E450-E350-F550-/191253225022?_trksid=p2054897.l5670

Rock Auto sells brake lining and a hardware kit, if the brakes are worn out, usually from driving with the parking brake on. I can find no other parts for the assembly. If anyone comes up with more information, please let me know.
If they are being rebuilt, someone has figured out the proper bearing and seal numbers and isn't making it public.
And my pitch everytime this comes up in the last tens years, I would love to have a leaking parking brake assembly to disassemble to see if they can be rebuilt, so don't let your mechanic throw the old one away, please (assuming it isn't completely destroyed).

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Dreaded parking brake leak (sorry, this is long)
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147502
Thanks, Joan.  Now I get it--and Larry's pics and instructions make it crystal clear.  Ted
Re: A word to the wise about the E450 parking brake -- Now--Things t
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147503
Larry,

I do not think that I have any problem to answer your last request. Depending how the brake assembly will be removed from our Lazy Daze tomorrow, I'll hang on to it and get it to you.

As I mentioned in my earlier post today it seems to be frozen to the splines. My wife, Mary, and I just had a nice conversation, over a lunch with a shop foreman and his wife. and discussed our predicament at length and in a relaxed way. He fully agreed not to even try to rebuild the unit. In response to my question what to do if they can not get unit off the shaft he stated that we could be faced with going into the transmission, although that would be a last resort. He would look into this some more this evening. Tomorrow we'll be faced with decisions and I'll report more on this.

Aad Rommelse
2001 MB
Re: Dreaded parking brake leak (sorry, this is long)
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 147507
I'm all worried about parking brake after the discussion.
 Different times, when I get new tires, I have asked the mech guys at the tire shop to check.  Gave them Larry's printed page. And they say "ok". But I'm no longer fully confident in those guys.
 What -if any- effect will happen in case of *very* infrequent use of the handbrake?  Lo these many years, I only set the handbrake maybe a dozen times.
 I'd use it only on a fairly substantial grade.  My thumb-rule is that if the fridge is happy, then the Park setting on the trans should be enough.

John