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Topic: should wannabee hold out for '03 model (Read 4 times) previous topic - next topic
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should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Yahoo Message Number: 102983
I would like to know LDer's opinions on whether they think a fulltimer should hold out for an '03 model due to the double paned windows and the newer engine or if it's that big a deal.  I do not plan on just staying in warm weather places.  I do not plan on towing but that could change.

Thanks Nancy in Atlanta
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102987
"I would like to know LDer's opinions on whether they think a fulltimer should hold out for an '03 model due to the double paned windows and the newer engine or if it's that big a deal."
 Let's start with the engine. As far as I know (and I'm just going by the "LD Models Over the Years" document in our Files area), there were no significant changes in the engine for 2003. The important change occurred in 2000, when the 265 HP engine was upgraded to 305 HP.

In 2002, LD made the following changes:

* Cabinets built of light-colored wood * White textured vinyl wall surface white instead of patterned * Onan MicroQuiet generator instead of Onan Emerald * New solid state converter/charger: Magnetek 7345 instead of 6345 * Shore power cord detachable (Marinco fitting)
 For anybody who uses their generator, the MicroQuiet is MUCH more desirable, in my opinion, because it's very noticeably quieter than the old Emerald model.
 The 7345 converter is also a significantly better unit than the old, crude 6345, although both are easily outperformed by the popular IntelliPower converters that many of our members have retrofitted.
 Changes for 2003 included double-pane windows, removal of wall-to-wall carpeting from the bath area, and the change from E350 to E450 chassis for all 23.5' models. That last one is very important if you're looking at a 23-footer, because it means a much larger cargo capacity, and also a wider coach body.
 Now about those windows. Before buying my 2003 midbath, I set 2003 as the oldest year I'd consider, precisely because of those windows. But having lived through three winters with them, I have to say that the difference in insulation is not really noticeable, compared to the tinted windows in my 1985 LD. The double-pane windows still get cold. (The frames get even colder.)
 So in summary, while the double-pane windows are desirable... knowing what I know now, I wouldn't put too much weight on them in a buying decision.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102990
Andy

So how much more is the cargo capacity on the '03 23.5 than the '02 23.5?

Thanks a million! Nancy
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102992
Andy
 How much larger carrying capacity does the 23.5 '03 have over the 23.5 '02 model.
Thanks! Nancy
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102996
"How much more carrying capacity does an '03 23.5 have than an '02 23.5?"
 Depending on floorplan, a 2002 23.5' Lazy Daze on the E350 chassis has a CCC of 488 to 567 pounds. A 2003 23.5' Lazy Daze on the E450 chassis has a CCC of 2,651 to 2,869 pounds--roughly *five times* as much.
 That's a huge difference, and I can tell you from experience that there is no such thing as too much CCC when you're fulltiming! I'd choose the 2003 rig without a second thought.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102997
Andy,
 I was going to answer Nancy's question about CCC differences and looked at the 2002, 2003 LD spec sheets posted on Techsnoz site and noticed on the 2003 spec sheet the 23.5 still shows being on the E350 chassis. It could be an error on LD's spec sheet.

-mike
2006 TK
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 102999
"on the 2003 spec sheet the 23.5 still shows being on the E350 chassis. It could be an error on LD's spec sheet."
 Gotta be an error. According to that same LD spec sheet, the 23.5' models' CCC quintupled in 2003, which is clear evidence they were built on the E450 chassis.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103000
-

Quote
Let's start with the engine. As far as I know (and I'm just going by the "LD Models Over the Years" document in our Files area), there were no significant changes in the engine for 2003. The important change occurred in 2000, when the 265 HP engine was upgraded to 305 HP.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy,
 I believe in late '03 Ford modified the cylinder heads to alleviate the spark plug blow out problem. It might behoove one to move up to an '04 model to avoid a possible expensive repair.

John
should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103002
Hi, Nancy,

As others have mentioned there's no difference in the engine between the "02 and the "03.

As for the windows, prior to '03, LD windows were double-paned, but not insulated double pane.  There was a film between the two layers of glass.
In '03, LD switched to a true double-paned, insulated window.

I understand your concerns about the CCC; previous posts have been correct about the vastly increased CCC with the switch to the E450 chassis for the 23.5 models.

Here are the various weight figures right from the sticker in my rig:

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating = 11,500 lbs

Unloaded Vehicle Weight = 9860

Sleeping Capacity Weight Rating = 616 (4 people x 154 lbs)

Cargo Carrying Capacity = 488

Gross Combination Weight Rating = 18,500

On the other hand, please remember that the CCC assumes a full load of 4 people, full water, propane and gas tanks.  A full tank of water weighs 500 lbs!  So if you travel with only half a tank, you can add 250 pounds of "stuff".  Likewise, if there is only you in the rig, you can add yet another 462 pounds, bringing your CCC to 1200 pounds.   Last year we were gone for 8 months in the LD (two of us) and we were within weight limits.  I've weighed it several times over the years and we've never been over.

But I understand your concerns, so no problem.

But I understand your concerns, so no problem.  If money is no problem, there are some nice '03 or newer 23'5's out there.  Good luck in finding the one that's right for you.

Cheers,

Ted

www.wxtoad.com http://www.wxtoad.com/>
 I would like to know LDer's opinions on whether they think a fulltimer should hold out for an '03 model due to the double paned windows and the newer engine or if it's that big a deal. I do not plan on just staying in warm weather places. I do not plan on towing but that could change.

Thanks Nancy in Atlanta

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103007
As I recall, Ford resolved the vigorously denied spark plug blowout issue in 2003.
It's not a common problem, but one that further supports waiting on a 2003 model year.

Ed
should wannabee hold out for '03 model (Spark Plug Blowout)
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103010
I am not trying to respark the debate on the Ford V-Block engine spark plug blowout, but the root of the problem, as I understand it, is that the spark plugs are not installed by Ford at the factory to a uniform torque (i.e., torque varies from plug to plug) and the Ford spec torque (14 ft-lb) is really not enough torque.  Granted, 8 threads
Re: should wannabee hold out for '03 model
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103016
"I would like to know LDer's opinions on whether they think a fulltimer should hold out for an '03 model due to the double paned windows"

Nancy
 Having owned at 1983 22'FL and presently, a 2003 23.5' FL, we have a direct comparison between the performance of the windows.
The double insulated windows do keep it a little warmer or cooler inside but it's not a huge difference. We do get much less frosting, in cold weather. The big difference is the reduction in noise. We hear much less of what's going on outside with the double glass. To a light sleeper, like myself, this is a real plus.
 The most appreciated feature of the 2003 23.5' models is the huge increase in CCC. The 1983 FL was always at or slightly over its GVW when fully loaded and our kayaks (with their own camper gear) were on top. Our 2003, loaded the same way, still has over a thousand pounds of CCC left.
Unless you start collecting boulders or carrying your wealth in gold bullion, you should never have a problem with weight in a 23.5". There just isn't enough room to store that much stuff.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze