Resealing Windows May 13, 2009, 11:02:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 102298I need to completely reseal my windows on our '88 MB. My understanding (after searching through a bunch of threads) is that there are a couple of options. For either option, I plan to completely remove and re-install.1) Remove window, clean everything like mad, reseal with butyl tape as originally done and re-install. 2) Remove window, clean, reseal with rubber gasket.When we bought the rig in Spring 2007, the butyl was oozing out around the edges of the windows. I scraped and cleaned it all off, then re-sealed using a clear sealant from RV supply place. By the end of the summer, the butyl was oozing out again, past the sealant I had applied. I stopped in at the factory two years ago when we were still living in Arizona, and Steve said the butyl tape needs to be replaced about every 5yrs or so by completely removing the windows, or by replacing it with the gasket, which is what they now use. Since I plan on removing the windows in both cases, my preference would be to reseal with the gasket option, but wanted to get some insight from those that may have already done it either way. I assume one can buy the gaskets from the factory, but are they any other sources?thanks, Adam
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #1 – May 14, 2009, 01:05:17 am Yahoo Message Number: 102299I have to reseal a couple of mine as well, also an '88MB. I have looked at the windows, but do not see how to remove them. I my old Dreamliner the removal was straight and easy. How do the windows come out?__
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #2 – May 17, 2009, 04:45:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 102395QuoteWhen we bought the rig in Spring 2007, the butyl was oozing out around the edges of the windows..... I stopped in at the factory two years ago...Steve said the butyl tape needs to be replaced about every 5yrs or so by completely removing the windows, or by replacing it with the gasket, which is what they now use. I am reading that your rig was oozing butyl tape when brand new. Regrets Anyone know when did they start use gaskets? Ours is September, 2007 and I see no tape.Cheers, Don
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #3 – May 17, 2009, 06:29:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 102402Quote I am reading that your rig was oozing butyl tape when brand new. Regrets Anyone know when did they start use gaskets? Ours is September, 2007 and I see no tape.Cheers, Don
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #4 – June 14, 2010, 04:52:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 113445Well, last summer I resealed most of my windows, ran out of time for the last few, but got all the big ones and the problem children. I had a little dry rot on the back window along the bottom that was easily repaired with a new piece of wood. My dinette window was another story...i knew it had some dry-rot, as it was soft underneath near the bottom front corner, and the aluminum skin was wavy as it was lacking structural support. It ended up being pretty significant, with me removing nearly all of the bottom support wood and piecing in replacement. I replaced the fiberglass insulation with foam board, and then added 3/8" plywood attached to support beams for additional rigidity. The rot extended almost down to level of forward bench seat at my dinette, so I had to remove the dinette, padded panel and some of the paneling was rotten as well near corner of bench seat. The padded panel covers up wood panel as well, so i cut out a piece to patch the visible area that had rotted, unless you look very close you can't even tell it's patched. I also used rot doctor epoxy products to attempt saturating all the areas inside the wall for reinforcement before putting it back together. I didn't manage to get pictures of my process, but hope to do so for the remaining few windows when I get to them. Francine Rose from the group had emailed my offline to ask what process I used, so I did my best at writing it up (copied below) to help out and thought I'd share with the group. I did get several KEY tips by calling the Mothership and talking to Steve, so please call them if you have questions.Note that for the larger windows, this is a 2-person job. You will need putty knife, polyurethane sealant, utility knife, rags, mineral spirits, acetone.1) Remove interior window trim ring by removing screws. Note window will not be secured after removing the screws, so you may want someone outside to catch the window, though it's likely the remaining butyl rubber will hold it in place. 2) Remove window, cleaning all the old sealant off of all surfaces, both on the window frame and from the LD. I used a putty knife to scrape off and then cleaned surfaces with mineral spirits. Inspect window opening for any signs of dry-rot...I had a couple that I had to repair, cutting out the rotten wood and replacing with 1x2 if I recall correctly. 3) Measure the D gasket and cut a length long enough to go around the entire window with just a little overlap for margin (you will trim later). The D gasket is going to be applied to the lip of the window frame, sticky-side applied to frame over the small channel that is in the lip. Do NOT apply the gasket yet or remove the tape. 4) Thoroughly clean the window lip, removing all residue, then clean the lip surface where you will attach the gasket with acetone. Acetone is important as LD will tell you...it's very important the gasket seals well against the window frame. 5) Applying the gasket: You will want the joint in the gasket to be at the bottom of the window frame. Apply starting at middle bottom and work your way arond the frame. Where the ends meet back up, trim to fit, then squirt a little sealant into both ends before 'closing the loop'. Next, using your utility knife, put a small 1/2" slit in the inside edge (toward window) of the gasket on all four sides of the window...this is important as it allows the gasket to compress when you re-attach it to the LD. 6) Prepping for Re-install: Make sure window opening is clean from all residue. Where there are seams in aluminum sides on the LD, clean out old sealant and re-apply some polyurethane, working into the joint about 1" back from the edge of the window opening. This is very important! 7) Re-install: apply a 1/8" thick bead of polyurethane sealant along top of gasket on window. Now, picking up the window carefully, avoiding wrapping fingers around the edges, insert window back into opening on the LD. You may have to jockey it around a bit to slide it in completely. Have a helper to hold the window in place while the other person re-installs the window frame inside. Be careful not to strip out screws on the aluminum window frame. After all the screws are re-installed, clean excess sealant around the outside of the window.Good Luck!
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #5 – June 14, 2010, 06:22:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 113451This sounds like a LOT of work. I have a few non-technical questions.1) What part of the country do you live in? I am guessing not in the desert SW.2) How old is this rig? 3) Anyone, do the windows need to be resealed after x number of years to prevent water damage to the structural wood? Is this a known maintenance item like the roof seams? Life's tough......it's even tougher if you're stupid John Wayne
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #6 – June 14, 2010, 07:01:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 113452Hi Don, it's not a hard/complicated job (unless you end of with major dry-rot repairs, which need to be taken care of regardless), it's just tedious work...I know others on the list have done it themselves as well, perhaps they can chime in. 1) What part of the country do you live in? I am guessing not in the desert SW.QuoteI live in Portland area now (Hillsboro), though we relocated from desert SW, Phoenix/Chandler area. 2) How old is this rig? QuoteIt's an '88 MB. I had the butyl rubber oozing out on all my windows, which is what LD originally used up until 19??. 3) Anyone, do the windows need to be resealed after x number of years to prevent water damage to the structural wood? Is this a known maintenance item like the roof seams?QuotePer the Mothership, this is/was a maintenance item on all rigs that used the butyl tape for sealing. I see no reason one would need to re-seal once you have the rubber D-gasket, unless you spring a leak!Adam[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #7 – September 27, 2011, 07:34:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125544Quote from: ajandkj"" 3) Measure the D gasket and cut a length long enough to go around the entire window with just a little overlap for margin (you will trim later). The D gasket is going to be applied to the lip of the window frame, sticky-side applied to frame over the small channel that is in the lip. Do NOT apply the gasket yet or remove the tape."Sorry for resurrecting an older thread...One question regarding the "D" gasket.. On our '85 LD is it safe to assume I have no such "D" gasket but have the older butyl rubber stuff instead. To that end, can the newer "D" gasket be used on these older windows or is the frame sufficiently different on the older Hehr windows to preclude it's use. I'm just wanting to make sure I don't order the "D" gasket stuff if it's not to be used with our older Hehr windows.Also - The rubber seal that holds the window glass in the frame appears to be original and is VERY hard -- if I'm going to remove these windows should I get replacement seals as well? Seems like a good idea..I'm just trying to picture all of this in my head and after talking with Yogi at the Hehr window parts place (Parkin Accessories) I think I came away more confused.. Please advise..-- Rick
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #8 – September 28, 2011, 01:19:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125547Rick I believe LD used a putty tape, not butyl tape in the mid-80 models. Today, most use butyl tape for resealing window frames. Eternabond also makes a window tape. Butyl tape, properly installed, should last as long as your LD. If the windows are not leaking, you may op for a simpler sealing job that seals the edges of the frame to the coach. http://rv-living-magazine.com/leaking-rv-windows.html> JUST DO NOT USE SILICONE!!. Instead of taking the chance on breaking an old window by replacing the rubber ring around the glass itself, I would try to seal it with Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure, a product I have used for many years to seal tiny cracks and gaps. I would try sealing the rubber to the glass, with Capt Tolley's, and then use a hose to test the windows sealing. http://www.captaintolley.com/>Larry 1 Likes
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #9 – September 28, 2011, 02:00:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125549QuoteOn Wed, 28 Sep 2011 17:19:08 -0000, Larry wrote: " Butyl tape, properly installed, should last as long as your LD. If the windows are not leaking, you may op for a simpler sealing job that seals the edges of the frame to the coach." Ok.. So I do not need the D-gasket material mentioned in the LazyDaze companion? I just wanted to double-check before I order something I don't need.. " JUST DO NOT USE SILICONE!!."Ok -- I've read that elsewhere and will not go there.. :-) " Instead of taking the chance on breaking an old window by replacing the rubber ring around the glass itself, I would try to seal it with Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure, a product I have used for many years to seal tiny cracks and gaps. I would try sealing the rubber to the glass, with Capt Tolley's, and then use a hose to test the windows sealing."Sounds like a plan! I'll see about getting some of that!
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #10 – September 28, 2011, 05:10:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125554QuoteOn Wed, 28 Sep 2011 11:00:57 -0700, Rick & Nellie Flower wrote:" Ok.. So I do not need the D-gasket material mentioned in the LazyDaze companion? I just wanted to double-check before I order something I don't need.." Ok.. I think I found a few hints in the archives that is relevant to this discussion -- it might be nice to clarify this (assuming its correct) in the LD Companion :In Message #113452 (dated 14-Jun-2010), I found this comment : " Per the Mothership, this is/was a maintenance item on all rigs that used the butyl tape for sealing. I see no reason one would need to re-seal once you have the rubber D-gasket, unless you spring a leak!" Another comment in Message #102395 (dated 17-May-2009), I found this:" I stopped in at the factory two years ago...Steve said the butyl tape needs to be replaced about every 5yrs or so by completely removing the windows, or by replacing it with the gasket, which is what they now use."So, to summarize -- old or new LD's may be constructed either way but the newer ones (starting sometime in '89) switched over to the D-Gasket from the Butyl tape used on older rigs. However, as the owner of an older rig, you can still do the R&R using either product -- Butyl tape or D-Gasket -- it's your preference...Consider this closed for me -- sorry for being pesky with the questions!-- Rick
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #11 – September 28, 2011, 06:11:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125555By the way.. In a thread from a few years back it was noted that the Mothership sells D-Gasket for $0.75/ft.I just called and spoke with Todd (IIRC) and the price is still the same, so I guess we're going to take a local visit to the Mothership on Friday sometime since it's only about an hour away.. perhaps my wife can get an idea of what a much newer/nicer LD looks like...Yes, I realize I can buy it elsewhere but I'd like to get a jump-start on getting this rig water tight before it starts raining and don't want to mail-order and wait..Thanks all!
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #12 – September 30, 2011, 01:19:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 125575"Ok.. So I do not need the D-gasket material mentioned in the LazyDaze companion? I just wanted to double-check before I order something I don't need.."Rick The D-gasket must be the right stuff as I have never pulled a leaking windowed sealed with just a rubber gasket. Most every leaker, I have seen, was sealed with a putty tape. I think Steve's comment about butyl tape only lasting 5 years is a little pessimistic.Larry
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #13 – October 02, 2011, 12:16:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 125643So.. Yesterday we went down to the Mothership literally 7 minutes prior to closing and we're able to buy the requisite amount of "D" gasket for doing all of the windows on our LD with a little margin factored in.. This morning, I decided to take out the passenger side upper bunk window first and was able to remove the interior screws (quite a few of them) -- some short (1/2"x8) and some long (3/4"x8) with no particular rhyme or reason as to which was which. Anyway, it took a bit of tugging to remove the window from the opening.. I was able to enlist my kids help to remove some of the old caulking which didn't appear to be super old -- and was still semi pliable.. I removed the last bits of it and cleaned with mineral spirits and later acetone to get the remnants off -- I was surprised at how filthy my rags were after both cleaning steps.. So, in the write-up for applying the gasket is the following statement as part of step 5 as listed on the LD Companion site: "Next, using your utility knife, put a small 1/2" slit in the inside edge (toward window) of the gasket on all four sides of the window...this is important as it allows the gasket to compress when you re-attach it to the LD." This step as well as the step I got yesterday from Lazy Daze (they gave me a sheet outlining the steps to follow when doing window R&R) leaves me confused.. Is this slit running around the entire length of the "D" gasket or just on each of the 4 sides? The LD paper only indicates doing this on the bottom and I should have asked Steve while I was talking to him. I guess I don't understand why making a single (or multiple) 1/2" slits helps with gasket compression.. I have installed the window but the gasket is easily visible from the outside of the rig.. Is that the way these new setups look or did I install it incorrectly? I did have to buy replacement screws as the original 1/2"x8 screws just wouldn't reach far enough to get to the other side and make contact with the outer edge.. With the way this window is, I can see the wood framing between the metal window 'sandwich' -- is that good or bad? I realize the D-gasket is thicker than the older butyl rubber so' P.S. two of the screws are marginally stripped -- whats the best approach to fix this -- just using a #10 screw of the same length?comments?[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #14 – October 02, 2011, 11:27:58 am Yahoo Message Number: 125653I think it dawned on me REALLY late last night that the reason for the slits is to let the air out as the gasket is compressed against the outside of the LD during the installation -- obviously since you're sealing the end up with caulk then the air can't escape hence the need for the holes. I'll probably re-remove the window and re-do it just to make sure I've done it correctly.By the way, should any of the gasket be visible afterwards or should it be sealed with the 3M 5200 marine sealant to keep UV damage of the gasket from occurring?Seems to me that it should not be visible.. Unless I hear otherwise I'll probably seal it over so no exposed gasket is seen.Also, for the stripped holes I'll probably adjust my procedure to test each hole prior to reassembly on a bench and if a hole is stripped or near stripped then I'll abandon that hole and drill a new one nearby through the inside frame hold-down but won't drill into the window itself as that's the job of the screw.. That ought to work but I'll have to mark the old stripped hole to ensure I don't try putting a screw in there during reassembly..-- Rick
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #15 – October 02, 2011, 11:56:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 125655"By the way, should any of the gasket be visible afterwards or should it be sealed with the 3M 5200 marine sealant to keep UV damage of the gasket from occurring?"Rick After you mentioned the d-gasket, I examined our 2003 LD's windows. The gaskets are not visible on ours due to the edge of the gasket being covered in sealant, paint or both. Since the gasket is rubber, it could be damaged by exposure to the sun. I would either paint the edges or run a thin bead of polyurethane around the edges. Thanks for the info on the d-gaskets, I will try it on the next reseal project.Larry
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #16 – October 04, 2011, 11:48:23 am Yahoo Message Number: 125725QuoteOn Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:56:08 -0000, Larry wrote: "By the way, should any of the gasket be visible afterwards or should it be sealed with the 3M 5200 marine sealant to keep UV damage of the gasket from occurring?"Thanks Larry.. By the way, I have a page documenting what I'm working on and you can see some photos of my window re-sealing here :http://tinyurl.com/62n3emy-- Rick
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #17 – October 10, 2011, 12:31:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125895Ok.. So some of my windows are in OK shape but others apparently need more TLC -- see the pics at the link below..http://tinyurl.com/4xcu2epAs you can see the window gasket or seal has shrunk on this particular window and I'm afraid it will allow water in.. Unfortunately I've got several windows like this but a PO used some black sealant in the corners of several others with this affliction to seal them up but I'm thinking that I might as well do the job right particularly if one window has 2 or more corners with this issue on the same glass -- which several windows do.Anyone know what the gasket/seal is or should I just take a window apart to see first hand before I order replacement material from Park-Acc (see link below) with their varying seals/gaskets? I tried talking with Yogi and I only confuse him and he's not interested in seeing a photo of what I'm asking about which bothers me a bit.. http://www.parkin-acc.com/page53.htmlOne of the other windows has what appears to be a larger gasket sealing the glass that is coming out in one corner (in the large dinette window if I recall) and that gasket is different -- thicker than the one I linked to at the top..Has anyone actually done this? It seems fairly straightforward as long as I've got a large table to work on and can protect the glass, etc.. and most importantly take my time.. Based on looking at the sliding bunk window I removed, there were 4 screws that held the frame together and I'd assume that if the screws were removed that the window and gasket would be able to be removed, etc..Worst case, I'd assume I'd be able to take it to a decent local glass shop and have them do the swap if I had the replacement gasket material..
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #18 – October 11, 2011, 02:48:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125910" Anyone know what the gasket/seal is or should I justQuotetake a window apart to see first hand before I order replacement material from Park-Acc (see link below) with their varying seals/gaskets? " Rick, I you think yours is bad, you should see mine. This is the stuff I told you about in an email that the factory calls glazing. I bought about 75' or 100' of it from the factory. I bought black (they sell brown too) becasue I want to change my frames to black. Others can chime in but I don't think it really seals the water out. There is other glue that seals the window. That crack stuff you bought at CW is what I thought was fixing your sealing problems. I think htis glaze just helps keep the glass in place and gives is a nice look. I have not installed it yet but the gal there said to lay it in the sun before installing. Looks like you might need to cut some water channels too at the bottom. Look at a few of your old window glazings.Ramon
RV Insurance Reply #19 – October 11, 2011, 03:18:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125912Hi , I am wondering who most of you prefer for your RV Insurance. I am currently with GMAC via Good Sam and feel that they are a bit high. Also I was told that when in storage all I needed to do was call them and they would reduce the rate for that period of time. However they won't do that unless I go to DMV and get Non-operational from them. So . HELP with suggestions. Thanks, Betty Jean& Circus Wagon
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #20 – October 11, 2011, 03:21:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125913QuoteOn Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:48:07 -0000, Ramon P wrote: " If you think yours is bad, you should see mine. This is the stuff I told you about in an email that the factory calls glazing. I bought about 75' or 100' of it from the factory. I bought black (they sell brown too) becasue I want to change my frames to black. Others can chime in but I don't think it really seals the water out. There is other glue that seals the window. That crack stuff you bought at CW is what I thought was fixing your sealing problems. I think htis glaze just helps keep the glass in place and gives is a nice look." Hmm.. I did re-seal the one passenger side bunk window with the crack sealer (captain's creepy crack whatever..) and it really wicks into the cracks and whatnot.. Where did you get your glazing -- from LD direct? Shoulda picked some up if that's the case when I was there.. I think I showed them a pic (the one I posted earlier) and didn't get any advice that I recall.. The front upper dinette window has a bulging glazing that I'm sure must leak as I think I could probably almost pull the glazing out without removing the glass.. Doh! What was the original color -- brown? I consider the windows black more or less but would probably also buy black to match the glass color. " I have not installed it yet but the gal there said to lay it in the sun before installing. Looks like you might need to cut some water channels too at the bottom. Look at a few of your old window glazings." Ok.. Sounds good.. I'm almost of the opinion that every window ought to have the glazing replaced since it's SUPER hard at this point -- I'm assuming it's a rubber product? Ours are all very cracked and dry..Thanks for chiming in.. I'll be taking LOTS of photos of this for the next person that might need to do this chore.. Photos are GOOD! (8-)
Re: RV Insurance Reply #21 – October 11, 2011, 03:40:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125914QuoteOn Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:18:27 -0400 (EDT), Betty Jean wrote: " I am wondering who most of you prefer for your RV Insurance. I am currently with GMAC via Good Sam and feel that they are a bit high."Betty.. Funny you mention this.. I got our '85 rig insured recently through Progressive RV insurance and had also just signed up with Good Sam which offers insurance through GMAC. I got a quote from GMAC that was IDENTICAL to the quote through progressive and found that GMAC was MUCH higher for us -- more than double.. Now, you need to keep in mind that our primary (car) insurance is via USAA and they have a portal for USAA members to get RV insurance thru Progressive so that may influence their pricing a little.. I know that Andy had Progressive at one time (and may still) and that he was happy with their claims handling when Skylark was hit by lightning.. Anyway, you might want to check them out..
Re: RV Insurance Reply #22 – October 11, 2011, 04:20:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125916I don't know your particular circumstance, but once our motorhome value dropped to about half it's purchase cost, we switched to liability only, no collision/comprehensive (and we do that for all our vehicles). It's $94/year now from State Farm. It's a lot cheaper that way, and in 45 years of driving, the biggest expense we've had was $800 to fix the door on our mini-van, so we are way ahead. The liability insurance for our Camry is actually higher, at $246/year, so apparently, older couples driving motorhomes are very good risks and don't hit expensive objects very often, but when they get into a "sporty" car - watch out!Eric Greenwell
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #23 – October 11, 2011, 05:06:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125918"Where did you get your glazing -- from LD direct?" Yes.. Is it Steve's sister that runs the front" She sold it to me, about 75 cents a foot. I think I bought 77 feet for the 85 MP. Measure for sure! Here is an example of my front bunk window glazing. As for the cut out I speak of for drainage, check the bottom of each window and you will see this little rectangle cutout center of the window.. at least the bunk windows.Ramon
Re: Resealing Windows Reply #24 – October 11, 2011, 05:14:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 125919On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:06:11 -0000, Ramon P wrote: QuoteYes.. Is it Steve's sister that runs the front" She sold it to me, about 75 cents a foot. I think I bought 77 feet for the 85 MP. Measure for sure! Here is an example of my front bunk window glazing. As for the cut out I speak of for drainage, check the bottom of each window and you will see this little rectangle cutout center of the window.. at least the bunk windows. Ramon.. Thx.. I know the small rectangle you're speaking of -- we might have to play with an exacto knife or similar to recreate that drain.. is that for condensation on the inside of the window pane or ?? P.S. I didn't get any photo if you did post one.. It was missing.. I checked the site too and it wasn't on that version of the message either..-- Rick
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