Cargo Capacity and Full Timing March 05, 2009, 12:02:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 99972I am planning on retirement into full timing in the near future. I have decided on a 27' RK versus a 31' TB. (The Kodiak is too expensive and apparently will be produced in limited quantities due to a lengthy build time.)My concern is that the 31'TB has only about 1500 lbs CCC after full fluids while the 27'RK has about 2500 lbs CCC (but fewer compartments,)I would like to add levelers which will reduce the useable CCC. Most books recommend about 2000 lbs CCC for a couple who are full timing. (I am single.) I would appreciate any comments from experienced LD'ers regarding this issue.Thanks.Peter
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #1 – March 05, 2009, 01:45:39 pm Yahoo Message Number: 99984QuoteMy concern is that the 31'TB has only about 1500 lbs CCC after full fluids Peter, actually the 31TB has 2,013 lbs CCCQuoteMost books recommend about 2000 lbs CCC for a couple who are full timing. (I am single.) Since you're single, you can add around 400 lbs (the weight of 3 people which is already included in the calculation) to your CC. That would give you 2,500 CCCSam
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #2 – March 05, 2009, 03:57:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 99990"Peter, actually the 31TB has 2,013 lbs CCC. Since you're single, you can add around 400 lbs (the weight of 3 people which is already included in the calculation) to your CC. That would give you 2,500 CCC." Unfortunately, no. The old CCC spec, used through the 2008 model year, included full gas, propane and water tanks plus 154 pounds per belted seat (four seats in the case of the 31' rigs). But new CCC spec, used starting with the 2009 model year, included NONE of this--no fuel, propane, water or people. That's why the 31' coach's published CCC jumped from 840 pounds to 2,103 pounds between 2008 and 2009, even though there was no change in the actual cargo capacity. Therefore, the USABLE cargo capacity (with full tanks and two people on board) for a couple in a 31' Lazy Daze--either 2008 or 2009--is 840 + (2 x 154) = 1,148 pounds. Similarly, the USABLE cargo capacity for a couple in a 27' RB is 1,509 + (4 x 154) = 2,125 pounds. Now getting back to Peter's question: The capacity of the RK should be adequate, going by the rule of thumb Peter quoted. As far as the 31-footer is concerned, 1,148 is obviously a lot less than 2,000. Is that something to worry about? It all depends on how much stuff you insist on carrying. If you live a fairly spartan lifestyle, you can get by. If you like to cook in cast iron pots and pans and insist upon bringing along a library of books, you'll be in trouble. If you have previous RVing experience (always a good idea before jumping into fulltiming!), you may have an idea, but you've probably never weighed your belongings. (Weigh your coach with full tanks, and then subtract the vehicle's rated GVWR to get the weight of yourselves and your stuff.) If not, you'll have to wingo it. Start with the minimum you think you can survive with, and increase gradually. As you travel, discard anything you haven't used in a year. Most important of all, weigh your rig every few months to see how you're doing!"I would like to add levelers which will reduce the useable CCC." Then don't add levelers--at least at first. While convenient, they are by no means a requirement. Most of us find that with a couple bags of Lynx leveling block or a pair of ramps, plus the bubble levels in the cab, leveling is easy to do in a few minutes. Just pull forward or back until you're as close to level as you can get in the campsite you've chosen... then if necessary, drive onto blocks or ramps to correct any remaining offset. Try it the simple way for six months, and THEN if you feel you absolutely must have automatic levelers, you can add them. By that time you'll have a better idea of whether you can afford a couple hundred pounds of extra weight and a couple thousand dollars of extra cost. Most of us do just fine without. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #3 – March 05, 2009, 04:15:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 99992Quote from: Andy Baird" "Unfortunately, no. The old CCC spec, used through the 2008 model year, included full gas, propane and water tanks plus 154 pounds per belted seat (four seats in the case of the 31' rigs). But new CCC spec, used starting with the 2009 model year, included NONE of this--no fuel, propane, water or people."Oops, my bad. Thanks for pointing out, Andy.Sam
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #4 – March 05, 2009, 04:21:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 99993"Thanks for pointing out, Andy." This major change in the qway CCC is calculated is going to cause confusion for years to come, unfortunately. I'd better write a FAQ document about it soon! :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #5 – March 05, 2009, 07:43:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100017Peter, I am a single guy fulltiming in a 27' LD. I initially expected to have a problem with the Cubic volume as well as the weight issue (CCC). When I actually got into my RV, I found that I had ample room for everything I took from my former home. Now, I don't have everything I want in here yet. I want to add a small compressor. I want to add a water pump and filtration system so I can safely refill my fresh water tank from a mountain stream or river. Also, I am cheating a bit. I am towing a small car. I put a Thule Cargo carrier on the Toad and I am carrying two folding chairs, two hoses and a small day pack there. I get DishNetwork and I store the dish in the back seat of the Toad and the tripod in the cargo carrier. If I were to put all that into my rig, not using the Toad, I would be pushed for places for everything, but would still be OK for CCC. I hope that helps a bit. Ken
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #6 – March 05, 2009, 07:45:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100019QuoteAndy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ Andy, thanks for the cogent advice. Definitely it gives me facts to consider in a slightly different manner from which I have previously seen them presented. I have been class B'ing for several years on weekends (and occasionally a week.) With food, all the equipment and fluids I need for comfort I am several hundred lbs below the CCC, but that is not full timing. I am interested in automatic levelers because at the campgrounds I have used I almost always need blocks to bring the vehicle within specifications for the Dometic reefer (3 degrees side-to-side and 6 degrees front-to-back.) How do you use blocks on dual rear wheels? I imagine it is necessary to use 2 sets.Peter
Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #7 – March 05, 2009, 07:48:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100020Quote Peter, I am a single guy fulltiming in a 27' LD. I initially expected to have a problem with the Cubic volume as well as the weight issue (CCC). When I actually got into my RV, I found that I had ample room for everything I took from my former home. Now, I don't have everything I want in here yet. I want to add a small compressor. I want to add a water pump and filtration system so I can safely refill my fresh water tank from a mountain stream or river. Also, I am cheating a bit. I am towing a small car. I put a Thule Cargo carrier on the Toad and I am carrying two folding chairs, two hoses and a small day pack there. I get DishNetwork and I store the dish in the back seat of the Toad and the tripod in the cargo carrier. If I were to put all that into my rig, not using the Toad, I would be pushed for places for everything, but would still be OK for CCC. I hope that helps a bit. Ken Yes it does help. I will be using a Toad and had thought about using it for storage. I did not think of a Thule, however.Peter
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #8 – March 05, 2009, 08:22:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100023"I have been class B'ing for several years on weekends (and occasionally a week.) With food, all the equipment and fluids I need for comfort I am several hundred lbs below the CCC, but that is not full timing." No, but the fact that you have camping experience in a class B is good--you've learned to pare things down to the bare essentials. It's good practice, you might say. :-) Now with that said, I'll have to admit that in four years of traveling in my old 22' Lazy Daze (three weeks max) I never came close to the rig's modest CCC... but as soon as I went full-time, I found myself hundreds of pounds over the limits. fulltiming *is* different. Still, it's always better to go from a small rig to a larger one than vice versa. :-) Based on what you've said, I think you'll do fine. "How do you use blocks on dual rear wheels? I imagine it is necessary to use 2 sets." Yes, absolutely. If you need to raise one side in back, you must raise both wheels on that side--if you only raise one, you'll seriously overload that tire. I carry three sets of Lynx levelers (30 total). I tried plastic ramps, but I prefer the levelers because they're much more flexible, both in use and in storage. (I carry two bags in a storage compartment on one side of the coach, and the third bag on the other side.) They're also MUCH lighter and less cumbersome to handle than traditional homemade ramps made from 2x6 lumber. With Lynx blocks, I can build ramps to any height I need--unlike plastic ramps, which only go to four inches. For example, if you look at this page, you can see how I used Lynx blocks to raise the front end of my Honda by five inches when I needed to work underneath:http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2009/towing.htm> And if I need to lift one entire side of the coach, I can distribute my blocks among the three wheels on that side. I don't know anybody who carries three ramps to deal with this situation, but the blocks can be configured any way you like. Lynx leveling blocks are available at Walmart for $30 per set of ten. Whatever you do, don't buy the yellow Lego-like leveling blocks that Camping World sells--they're extremely prone to breakage. The Lynx blocks are almost indestructible.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #9 – March 05, 2009, 08:26:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100026"I will be using a Toad and had thought about using it for storage. I did not think of a Thule, however." Lots of RVers--probably the majority--use their toads for storage. Just be sure you respect the car's own CCC.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #10 – March 06, 2009, 07:32:29 am Yahoo Message Number: 100045On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:22:47 -0000, "Andy Baird" andybaird@...> wrote these inspiring words:QuoteYes, absolutely. If you need to raise one side in back, you must raise both wheels on that side--if you only raise one, you'll seriously overload that tire. I carry three sets of Lynx levelers We use Lynx, but more often we use two 2 x 14's that are bolted together. The boards are a little wider than the duals. I rounded the corner on the top board, so there is not a sharp corner for the tires. If I need to get up really high, I put one or more Lynx on the top of the board and drop bolts through the Lynx into predrilled holes in the boards. Yeah, the suckers weigh 15 pounds each, but we like them. They fit in a lower bin and there is still room for all the other stuff we carry around. If we only have to raise the curb side, the other board makes a fine step to the step to the LD.YMMVDon & Dorothy A MB named Koko SE #21
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #11 – March 06, 2009, 08:51:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 100052Whatever you do, don't buy the yellow Lego-like leveling blocks that Camping World sells--they're extremely prone to breakage. The Lynx blocks are almost indestructible.Andy is absolutely correct! When we first started fulltiming back in 1998, we bought Lynx levelers from Camping World. When we sold the rig 5 years later, we made the mistake of leaving them with the rig (as I recall, we had almost all of the original levelers). By that time, CW wasn't selling the Lynx, but rather the yellow ones (don't know what brand they are). We had a MUCH lighter fifth wheel but by the end of the first summer of travel, almost all of them were broken. We now have gone back to Lynx levelers. The ones we currently have are over 2 years old and even with our 15,000# fifth wheel, all of them are still intact.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #12 – March 06, 2009, 09:22:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 100056"Linda & Earl Hylton" wrote: By that time, CW wasn't selling the Lynx, but rather the yellow ones (don't know what brand they are). We had a MUCH lighter fifth wheel but by the end of the first summer of travel, almost all of them were broken. --- I had the yellow CW "blocks" several years ago, and every one of the cheesy things cracked, crunched, and/or shattered in a very short time -- under a BabyDaze 23.5'. Lynx levelers work well, and they're sturdy (I like "sturdy"!), lightweight, and versatile. For those unfamiliar with what they look like, here are a few descriptive "use" photos from the website: http://www.lynxlevelers.com/lynx_levelers.htmlI think it's a good idea to shop around; prices vary. The 10-pack is usually a better deal all around.Joan
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #13 – March 06, 2009, 10:07:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 100058Quote I am planning on retirement into full timing in the near future. I have decided on a 27' RK versus a 31' TB. I am not a full timer, so take this for what it's worth. I do have a 2002 RK, and my wife and I had to live in it for 2 months while between jobs. For 2 of us, plus 2 cats, I find the RK to have more storage than we did. We also have the entertainment center, which adds storage above the cab. We just do not fill up the available storage. The only real shortage we have is the kitchen; we have 2 coffee pots (long story), bread machine, food, etc. Careful planning can ease that situation. Again, I can't offer any comparisons, but insofar as the RK is concerned, I find it offers all we need. YMMV Feel free, if you have any specific inquiries, to email me directly.Lee
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #14 – March 06, 2009, 12:12:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100062Quote"My concern is that the 31'TB has only about 1500 lbs CCC after full fluids..."Peter PeterI'm one person alone (plus small dog) and I own a 2004 30'IB. My rig, fully loaded for travel (full water & propane, clothing, tools, food, BBQ, etc.)(including Kwikee levelers) weighs 4,275# front, 9,500# rear for a total of 13,775#. Subtract that from the GVWR of 14,050# and I've got 1,275# to play with. And I haven't even filled all the empty space on board.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #15 – March 06, 2009, 02:01:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100064lejest2003 wrote: My rig, fully loaded for travel (full water & propane, clothing, tools, food, BBQ, etc.)(including Kwikee levelers) weighs 4,275# front, 9,500# rear for a total of 13,775#. Subtract that from the GVWR of 14,050# and I've got 1,275# to play with. And I haven't even filled all the empty space on board. --- Uuuhhhh, Steve, if I subtract 13775 from 14050, I get *275*, not *1275*. Different calculators... ;-)Joan
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #16 – March 06, 2009, 02:15:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100065Quote "Uuuhhhh, Steve, if I subtract 13775 from 14050, I get *275*, not *1275*. Different calculators... ;-)Joan Joan Ooops! I was trying to do it the old fashioned way, you know, pencil, paper and grey matter. Didn't have a calculator handy. Guess I'm a little rusty in that area and it looks like I'd better lose some weight off my own frame if I want to stay under the GVWR. This winter has got to be over soon... ;-}Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs (he could lose some too)
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #17 – March 06, 2009, 02:22:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100066lejest2003 wrote: it looks like I'd better lose some weight off my own frame if I want to stay under the GVWR. --- Steve, my first motorhome was a Dolphin on a Toyota chassis; the GVWR was 6000#! I really wanted to add an awning, but the lightest one I could find weighed about 25 pounds. The little chassis was already almost at max when road-ready, so, if I wanted an awning, the choices were to shed 25 pounds or forego the awning; never did get that awning.... ;-)Joan
Re: Cargo Capacity and Full Timing Reply #18 – March 06, 2009, 02:23:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 100067Would that be 275# to play with ? :-)))
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