Mid Bath battery question December 11, 2008, 09:26:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97836Although I do not yet have the need, at some point I may consider beefing up my battery capacity on my '08 MB. Have any of you MB owners ever considered using the cabinet under the fridge in conjunction with the existing battery space to create a space for a bank of 4 AGM batteries. It wouldn't be too hard to cut out the back of the existing battery box and removing the faux wood panel at the back of the cabinet space under the drawer to create a rather large space that could easily handle the 4 agm batteries and maintain a clean wiring assembly. Of course you would have to do it with agm batteries because of the proximity to living space. I imagine there may be issues with weight but maybe not. Any thoughts?
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #1 – December 11, 2008, 10:01:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97838"at some point I may consider beefing up my battery capacity on my '08 MB. Have any of you MB owners ever considered using the cabinet under the fridge...?"I've done this in my 2003 MB--search the archives for the relevant messages. I used Concorde Lifeline Group 27 12V AGM batteries (104 Ah each). Two batteries fit in the regular battery compartment, but you must remove the tray for vertical clearance and cut off the strap-mounting ears on the batteries for depth clearance. (Concorde's published dimensions are incorrect; the batteries are an inch longer than the spec sheet says, due to the ears.) Under the fridge you can fit three more of the same batteries--there's just enough room.Don't be stupid the way I was and install two outside and two inside... then realize that there's just enough room for another battery inside, and go back and retrofit. It's much easier and less expensive to install all five in the first place, and the additional cost of one more battery is insignificant compared to the overall cost of labor to do this job.The setup I've just described--five Group 27s--packs the largest possible number of amp-hours (520) into the available space *in the midbath*. Other floorplans will probably have different optimum solutions. Mike Sylvester and I reviewed the dimensions of all available 6V and 12V AGM batteries before settling on the Group 27s.As for weight, get your rig weighed and then do the math, adding up the weight of the five batteries. With five solar panels and five batteries, I'm still under my limits--just barely. :-) With a 2008 you have a few hundred extra pounds of CCC to work with, so you should be OK.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #2 – December 11, 2008, 10:16:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97839I did something similar. I removed the furnace right next to the compartment under the fridge and put two batteries in. There is room for one more I may add at some future date when I get another solar panel. Here are som pictures. The water tank is on the left. The compartment you refer to is on the right: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=battery%20motorhome&w=9754872%40N08Michelle * http://safoocat.blogspot.com/%c2%a0 * http://flickr.com/photos/safoocat/ * http://amazon.com/shops/safoocat As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #3 – December 13, 2008, 05:07:00 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97898Quote "at some point I may consider beefing up my battery capacity on my '08 QuoteMB. Have any of you MB owners ever considered using the cabinet under the fridge...?"I've done this in my 2003 MB--search the archives for the relevant messages. I used Concorde Lifeline Group 27 12V AGM batteries (104 Ah each). Two batteries fit in the regular battery compartment, but you must remove the tray for vertical clearance and cut off the strap-mounting ears on the batteries for depth clearance. (Concorde's Quotepublished dimensions are incorrect; the batteries are an inch longer than the spec sheet says, due to the ears.) Under the fridge you can fit three more of the same batteries--there's just enough room.Don't be stupid the way I was and install two outside and two inside... then realize that there's just enough room for another battery inside, and go back and retrofit. It's much easier and less expensive to install all five in the first place, and the additional cost of one more battery is insignificant compared to the overall cost of labor to do this job.The setup I've just described--five Group 27s--packs the largest possible number of amp-hours (520) into the available space *in the midbath*. Other floorplans will probably have different optimum solutions. Mike Sylvester and I reviewed the dimensions of all available 6V and 12V AGM batteries before settling on the Group 27s.As for weight, get your rig weighed and then do the math, adding up the weight of the five batteries. With five solar panels and five batteries, I'm still under my limits--just barely. :-) With a 2008 you have a few hundred extra pounds of CCC to work with, so you should be OK.Quote Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ Nice... looks like a tight fit but it works. Have you always used 12v batteries and in your opinion is ther a big difference in the longevity of a 6v battery over a 12v battery. From what I have read from various sources, the 6v battery has a longer life. Now, in 10 years, I don't imagine that I will discharge-charge my battery bank as many times as you will in a year, so it would seem that a 12v would be a better value for the dollar.
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #4 – December 13, 2008, 11:09:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97904"Have you always used 12v batteries?"Yes, I've always used 12V batteries, since my first rig (Gertie, a 1985 22' T/K Lazy Daze) came with four 12V gel batteries. And as soon as I bought my current rig, I replaced the 6V Trojan flooded-cell batteries with 12V AGMs, as described.Of course I didn't do that because I thought 12V batteries were better--just because in the space I had available, Group 27 12V batteries let me pack in the maximum possible amount of storage. One advantage of 12V batteries is that they need not be paired. I didn't have room for six 6V batteries, so I'd have been limited to four. But I was able to use five 12V batteries."in your opinion is ther a big difference in the longevity of a 6v battery over a 12v battery. From what I have read from various sources, the 6v battery has a longer life." In my opinion there's no significant difference. While there are some theoretical arguments in favor of 6V batteries--mainly based on thicker plates making them more shock-resistant---I haven't seen anything that makes me think the in the real world there's a noticeable difference in longevity, and I certainly haven't experienced anything of the sort. Assuming the batteries are suited to the application, and that they're not physically or electrically abused, I believe 12V batteries should have just as long lives as 6V batteries.If you want to ensure maximum lifespan with any battery--6V or 12V, flooded-cell, gel or AGM--you'll want a three-stage charger (unlike the Parallax converters that are standard in these rigs), and a Link-10 or XBM digital battery monitor that accurately shows the charge state (unlike the crude LED voltage meter that's standard), so you can make sure you don't overstress the batteries.Old-timers here are probably tired of hearing me say this, but nonetheless it's true: without one of these digital monitors, you have only a vague and untrustworthy guess about what's happening to your batteries. With a Link-10 or XBM monitor, you can 1) get the maximum useful operating times out of your batteries, while at the same time 2) treating them more gently to extend their lifespan. It's a win-win situation. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #5 – December 14, 2008, 08:34:57 am Yahoo Message Number: 97907QuoteIn my opinion there's no significant difference. While there are some theoretical arguments in favor of 6V batteries--mainly based on thicker plates making them more shock-resistant---I haven't seen anything that makes me think the in the real world there's a noticeable difference in longevity, and I certainly haven't experienced anything of the sort. Assuming the batteries are suited A lot has to do with intended use - it is almost impossible to find conventional automobile sized TRUE deep cycle flooded-cell batteries. I believe the Trojan 6V will outlast pretty much anything competitive in such 12V batteries, given equal care and use - because they MUST in a golf cart, which is the intended application. A typical marine 'deep-cycle / starting' battery only has to satisfy typical retail consumer use for that application, pack in a lot of rated 'A-hrs', and be cheap. We used to run a pair of group 27 12V batteries with solar charging, which provides ok conditions for longevity, and 6 years was about a max lifetime. Under the same conditions, folks have gone up to twice that with the Trojans. AGM batteries are a different world, since the design is by nature and intent very rugged. For this reason, you'll find A-hr ratings are lower than the flooded cells, and the price far higher. I suspect any differences in longevity between 6V and 12V versions will be minimal. When we recently upgraded to a pair of AGMs, I used the larger group 31, since that kept our charge capacity about the same. I also upgraded the converter and mounted the batteries together and inside, to maximize efficiency and climate conditions, since at upwards of $500 the pair, I want them to last a very long time.Steve
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #6 – December 14, 2008, 04:47:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97919Along what Andy has said about not knowing at what charge your batteries are, Toyota in the Prius has determined that the bank of batteries will last *LONGEST* by being charged only to 62% of a full charge. But they are nickel hydride batteries not lead acid type used in most Rv's. Larry
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #7 – December 14, 2008, 05:02:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97920"Toyota in the Prius has determined that the bank of batteries will last *LONGEST* by being charged only to 62% of a full charge." I assume you mean DIScharged only to 62%. Batteries should always be charged to 100%. :-) And that 60% number is probably a good one to go by for lead-acid batteries, too. One of my favorite features of the Link-10 and XBM monitors is that you can set a value that you don't want to go below, such as 60%, and then read on the display exactly how long until you get there at the present rate of battery usage--e.g., 8 hours and 37 minutes. That feature makes it really easy to manage your power use. (Of course you can also read percentage of full capacity or usable capacity, if you like.)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Mid Bath battery question Reply #8 – December 14, 2008, 06:06:10 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97922Quote "Toyota in the Prius has determined that the bank of batteries will last *LONGEST* by being charged only to 62% of a full charge." I assume you mean DIScharged only to 62%. Batteries should always be charged to 100%. :-) And that 60% number is probably a good one to go by for lead-acid batteries, too. One of my favorite features of the Link-10 and XBM monitors is that you can set a value that you don't want to go below, such as 60%, and then read on the display exactly how long until you get there at the present rate of battery usage--e.g., 8 hours and 37 minutes. That feature makes it really easy to manage your power use. (Of course you can also read percentage of full capacity or usable capacity, if you like.)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ Yep, I already have the XBM installed along with a PD9270. Of course I will beef up the cabling along with the new batteries whenever that may be and that should be enough. The 12v setup that you have Andy with 5 batteries looks like it might be just what the doctor ordered.
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