Braking Issues... November 06, 2008, 08:52:55 am Yahoo Message Number: 97094Searching through the threads I haven't found an answer to my LD issue. While braking I get some heavy duty brake pedal shuddering that causes the steering wheel to vibrate horribly. I've done a search through various forums including this one and it appears that it might be my front brake rotors. Optimally I would love to do this myself- just to check them out. After speaking to one of our most trusted local members (Thanks again Larry)the conclusion may be to take it to the local RV dealer which I might do, but thought I would first post to this group for feedback. I have a 1997 Twin King and was wondering has anyone pulled their wheels themselves, and if they found that their rotors were bad, what steps they took to replace them. If you have found links that discuss it, or have photo's etc, that would be appreciated. If it's beyond the scope of my doing them myself, then I'm wondering what aftermarket rotors have people gone with to hopefully keep this from happening again, and where you had them done. I live in Simi Valley, and am looking for options on where to take my motorhome besides the one place in Simi Valley. Are there reliable, and honest brake repair centers qualified to do motorhome brakes. I've done my own car brakes over several years and don't have a problem doing those, but think that the jacking up and removal of the hubs in order to replace the rotors might be beyond my scope since one of my most trusted sources here wouldn't do it himself. I guess the weight of the motorhome, rotor and complexity of the bearings has me going from DIY to having it done. Your thoughts? TIA- Arnold
Re: Braking Issues... Reply #1 – November 06, 2008, 09:17:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 97095Arnold Well I sure wouldn't take it to an RV dealer. If I wasn't going to try it myself I'd take it to a good truck shop. I find RV dealers very spotty on any kind of service and even more so with the chassis side of things. If I had a level spot and good jack stands I wouldn't hesitate to do it myself. It isn't any worse than changing a flat, as far as weight and danger is concerned. I would consult the manual for the correct lifting points. Now if you have an RV shop that you "know" handle these types of repairs well then by all means use them.Garry
Re: Braking Issues... Reply #2 – November 07, 2008, 10:33:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 97120Quote Arnold Well I sure wouldn't take it to an RV dealer. If I wasn't going to try it Quotemyself I'd take it to a good truck shop. I find RV dealers very spotty on Quoteany kind of service and even more so with the chassis side of things. If I Quotehad a level spot and good jack stands I wouldn't hesitate to do it myself. QuoteIt isn't any worse than changing a flat, as far as weight and danger is Quoteconcerned. I would consult the manual for the correct lifting points. Now if Quoteyou have an RV shop that you "know" handle these types of repairs well thenQuoteby all means use them.Garry Just an idea, but I had a slight shimmy while braking on downhills. Not so much that I was overly concerned. However when I traveled up to see Chuck "The Tireman" for valves upgrade, the resulting rebalance of the tires cured the shimmy.As far as brake rotors go, my experience has been that warped front rotors cause more of a pulsing than shimmy. And my rear brakes on a 92' TK E350 have standard drums that come off when the wheels are removed. A do-it-yerself brake job is no so out of the ordinary.Terry
Re: Braking Issues... Reply #3 – November 07, 2008, 11:45:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97127Hi Terry- since this only happens when I brake and not during the rest of my driving, I don't believe that tire balancing will solve it. I will investigate further what is causing it as it might be a stuck Caliper, my gut tells me that it's rotors. I've never experienced any rotor issue prior and can't think of any one thing that might of caused it, but will have to get the tires's off to check it out. I've never taken any of these tires off or jacked the LD up so that would be a consideration to look at
Re: Braking Issues... Reply #4 – November 08, 2008, 11:10:12 am Yahoo Message Number: 97130QuoteHi Terry- since this only happens when I brake and not during the rest of my driving, I don't believe that tire balancing will solve it. > ArnoldHi Arnold.My front wheels did not shimmy either while driving, only braking. The steering wheel would shimmy and vibrate, but I did not feel any at the brake pedal.As opposed to a warped rotor, you could have glaze or hard spots on your rotors. Since you are going to have a look, possibly new pads would help, like the new ceramic pads offered these days. Popping them in the front is really easy.Anyway, those tires and wheels are heavy. I use my linx levelers to roll them into position instead of trying to lift them. The original lug wrench seems to work fine. The big problem for me was jacking up the wheels. That 6 ton bottle jack is just plain scary weak. I have been thinking of a 12 or 20 ton jack. You will see what I mean when you try it. That being said, the biggest problem so far has been changing a flat. At the end of the task, lifting a wheel onto the rear carrier almost did me in. Better to have 2 people lift it.Terry
Braking Issues Reply #5 – November 06, 2008, 10:10:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 97096Arnold, Had a similar issue with my 94MB. Had the brakes checked at a brake shop who is quailfied to do brakes on trucks and rvs, and who I trust, and was told the rotors were fine. Steering wheel shutter still persisted. Do you have the problem constanly or is it intermittent. Usually my problem would disappear if I stabbed the brakes once or twice, or sometimes when I came to a complete stop. Turned out my parking brake was not releasing all the way causing it to heat up the rear brakes which in turn caused the shuttering or shaking when I applied the brakes, mostly at highway speeds. If you have thew same symptoms you might look at this. Good luck. Skip
Re: Braking Issues Reply #6 – November 06, 2008, 08:52:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97113Hello Arnold it sounds like your front brake rotors got hot and warped causing the brake pedal to pulse and steering wheel to vibrate when applying the brakes it should be a simple fix for a brake shop to repair they can machine the rotors and replace your brake pads as long has the rotors are at proper specs .............JodyQuote.Usually my problem would disappear if I stabbed the brakes once or twice, or sometimes when I came to a complete stop. Turned out my parking brake was not releasing all the way causing it to heat up the
Re: Braking Issues Reply #7 – November 07, 2008, 08:52:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 97117My steering wheel does it whenever I brake- though I'm not that sure that it does it at higher speeds. It does Not go away it I tap the brakes- I'm glad you found what caused yours. The local tire dealer who recently replaced my valve stems in my tires said they would check them free of charge, but prior to taking their time I want to investigate the feasibility of doing this myself. I will need help with the jacks or stand that are required, lug wrench's that work (my current spider one doesn't ;-( ) and any other items I would need to do this. In any case, what I'm looking at is CAN I do them as I've never replaced any rotors and believe there's some superior aftermarket rotors that are available. This is one company that the Ford forums discuss : http://www.powerslot.com/ and another site that discussed what is involved (though I believe this is with 4-wheel drive applications) http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/pshawk.html . If anyone has replaced their rotors themselves or knows of any sites that would be applicable to doing it, I'm open to it. Since I have some time, and I'm willing to do it, I would prefer doing it myself rather then just dropping it off to someone else to collect my $$. To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.comFrom: : Thu, 6 Nov 2008 16:06:15 +0000Subject: [LD] Re: Braking IssuesArnold, Had a similar issue with my 94MB. Had the brakes checked at a brake shop who is quailfied to do brakes on trucks and rvs, and who I trust, and was told the rotors were fine. Steering wheel shutter still persisted. Do you have the problem constanly or is it intermittent. Usually my problem would disappear if I stabbed the brakes once or twice, or sometimes when I came to a complete stop. Turned out my parking brake was not releasing all the way causing it to heat up the rear brakes which in turn caused the shuttering or shaking when I applied the brakes, mostly at highway speeds. If you have thew same symptoms you might look at this. Good luck. Skip[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Braking Issues Reply #8 – November 07, 2008, 08:58:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 97118Thanks for your feedback Jody, but from what I've read with most of the forums that unlike normal rotor for cars where there isn't as much weight, turning the rotors is fine. It seems that the consensus is that if they're warped and you turn them, it weakens them as there's less 'meat' and as a result, less material to dissipate the heat as a result. They end up warping faster. Candidly, I tend to be somewhat heavy on my breaking (per my wife) but don't recall anything that my driving did that would of caused the current condition I have being the culprit. So, that said, I'm looking after a superior alternative to what I'm currently replacing as I can't stomach $1100 every time the rotors warp. That's crazy unless I can't do this. So, my post is really geared towards those in my situation- people who have done the job on their motorhomes to see what is involved. To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.comFrom: : Fri, 7 Nov 2008 02:52:51 +0000Subject: [LD] Re: Braking IssuesHello Arnold it sounds like your front brake rotors got hot and warped causing the brake pedal to pulse and steering wheel to vibrate when applying the brakes it should be a simple fix for a brake shop to repair they can machine the rotors and replace your brake pads as long has the rotors are at proper specs .............Jody>>> > >. > Usually my problem would disappear if I stabbed the brakes once or > twice, or sometimes when I came to a complete stop. Turned out my > parking brake was not releasing all the way causing it to heat up the > rear brakes which in turn caused the shuttering or shaking when I > applied the brakes, mostly at highway speeds. If you have thew same > symptoms you might look at this. Good luck.> Skip>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Braking Issues Reply #9 – November 07, 2008, 09:18:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 97119Arnold,I have no specific experience with rotors
Re: Braking Issues Reply #10 – November 07, 2008, 12:44:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 97122"I found rotors on this site for a newer E-450 for $65"Jerry I looked at the site you listed and yes, I saw front rotors for $72. Unfortunately, there was no brand or models listed which means they are made in China...not good. When looking for rotors, you must make sure they are for a vehicle equipped with dual wheels. There is a big difference in price.High quality, brand name, domestic rotors, for Arnold's LD (a 1997 E-350) cost between $175-275 each. Here are a couple of sites that sell Premium brake parts. I picked the best parts available, which is what Arnold requested.Rock Auto website http://www.rockauto.com AC DELCO Part # 18A1731 {#19143874} ROTOR, FRT BRK (PERFORMANCE) DURASTOP PERFORMANCE (slotted); RIGHT HAND; w/ANTILOCK BRK; DUAL REAR WHLS $272.79Napa Auto website http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=430&CatId=3&SubCatId=4> Brake Rotor & Hub Assy - Left Front - Hi-Perf w/ Dual Rear Wheels w/ 4 Wheel ABS Brakes UP-PR86529L $274.00Premium Motorcraft front pads from Roch Auto MOTORCRAFT Part # BRSD655 {#2U2Z2V001AG} SuperDuty Pad; Semi-Metallic; Integrally Molded; Front $85.89Front disc hardware kit MOTORCRAFT Part # BRPK5621A More Info {#1C3Z2321CA, BRPK5621} Front $19.48 Since the front hub/rotors contain the wheel bearing, the cost of new bearings, seals and installation need to be added when changing to new rotors.Do the math, you are looking at over $650 in parts alone. You cannot get trucks brake done at the local muffler shop. These rigs are very large and heavy. The front rotor alone weighs over 50 lbs. Bigger jacks, stands and tools are needed to work on them. Truck repair shop rates are probably now in the $150 an hour range and $400+ labor, for a complete front brake job, is not out of the ordinary.Moral of story, be gentle on your brakes.Larry
Re: Braking Issues Reply #11 – November 10, 2008, 08:50:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 97154Hi Larry-I appreciate your 'moral of the story' and prior to answering you thought I would still like to 'bone up' on this issue and thanks for those links on the type of premium aftermarket parts I will need. What I'm in the process of doing is reading up on what is involved with changing out the rotors and came up with a pretty interesting article from one of the disc manufactures that discussed that few disc's are really warped but essentially the pulsating I'm getting in the steering wheel is the result of improper bedding of the pad's to the discs. The article is titled "The Warped Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System for those that are looking at the caused of the the rotor issues I'm attempting to address. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml# While that's one possible solution that I will try prior to installing the new rotors, I have also found that one of the ways to get the nuts off (due to the torquing of 140 ft lbs of torque) on the tires, is the use of a cheater pipe on the bar to gain additional leverage. Here is one pictorial on jacking a small trailer up that others might find helpful as so few manufactures sell motorhomes with tools (because of liability) to change tires that I found that others might not be aware of. I know that most of us might be inclined to just call our ERS for that, but none the less found on pulling the tire some info here: http://he-ruide.smugmug.com/gallery/4432584_Q9of7#260477446_6AhCH Using those spoked types of lug nut removers was a bear when I did my wife's breaks recently. I also found this link on what one ford owner did to replace their rotors. It's a 4x4 but I'm thinking that it should be about the same. 1- This is a Ford 4X4 which I believe will not be as comprehensive as what I will have to do- http://guzzle.rbmicro.com/pshawk.html2-In pursuit of getting some rotors that might be more warp proof, I came up with this type of process called Cryogenic Brake treatment of rotors that some commercial applications have used to keep the durability of their premium rotors up to snuff : http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=86568 . Thanks again for your feedback Larry, and also Terry as well as everyone else that has been so helpful. I will keep exploring what I need and the especially the qualitative aspects of which premium rotors I should get once I know if in fact those rotors need to be replaced. It appears that if the Stoptech article is applicable to my situation I might get away with just having to re-bed my rotors with a really abrasive pad until the pulsating goes away. If that doesn't work then it's on to replacing them. We'll see.Regards- Arnold To: lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.comFrom: : Fri, 7 Nov 2008 18:44:15 +0000Subject: [LD] Re: Braking Issues"I found rotors on this site for a newer E-450 for $65"JerryI looked at the site you listed and yes, I saw front rotors for $72. Unfortunately, there was no brand or models listed which means theyare made in China...not good. When looking for rotors, you must makesure they are for a vehicle equipped with dual wheels. There is a bigdifference in price. High quality, brand name, domestic rotors, for Arnold's LD (a 1997E-350) cost between $175-275 each. Here are a couple of sites that sell Premium brake parts.I picked the best parts available, which is what Arnold requested. Rock Auto websitehttp://www.rockauto.comAC DELCO Part # 18A1731 {#19143874}ROTOR, FRT BRK (PERFORMANCE) DURASTOP PERFORMANCE (slotted); RIGHTHAND; w/ANTILOCK BRK; DUAL REAR WHLS $272.79Napa Auto websitehttp://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=430&CatId=3&SubCatId=4>Brake Rotor & Hub Assy - Left Front - Hi-Perfw/ Dual Rear Wheels w/ 4 Wheel ABS Brakes UP-PR86529L $274.00 Premium Motorcraft front pads from Roch AutoMOTORCRAFT Part # BRSD655 {#2U2Z2V001AG}SuperDuty Pad; Semi-Metallic; Integrally Molded; Front $85.89Front disc hardware kitMOTORCRAFT Part # BRPK5621A More Info {#1C3Z2321CA, BRPK5621}Front $19.48Since the front hub/rotors contain the wheel bearing, the cost of newbearings, seals and installation need to be added when changing to newrotors. Do the math, you are looking at over $650 in parts alone. You cannot get trucks brake done at the local muffler shop. These rigsare very large and heavy. The front rotor alone weighs over 50 lbs. Bigger jacks, stands and tools are needed to work on them. Truckrepair shop rates are probably now in the $150 an hour range and $400+labor, for a complete front brake job, is not out of the ordinary. Moral of story, be gentle on your brakes. Larry[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Braking Issues Reply #12 – November 24, 2008, 12:33:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 97508So, it's about an update since Larry's post-I finally got an opportunity to pull my wheel up front on the right side today, and found the reason that my wheel was pulsating. I didn't have a warped rotor, but two crack
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