Towable smart fortwo car January 26, 2008, 10:48:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88903This could be our next toad.http://www.smartusa.com/ The March 2008 issue of Motorhome has a photo on the cover of a smart fortwo being loaded into a motorhome with a side-loading garage. The article says, "Unlike earlier European models that have a different engine and transmission, the import version is flat-towable. As of this writing, smart USA is developing a tow bar for the smart fortwo that will attach to the front of the vehicle that will allow for flat- towing behind a motorhome."Weights and other specs are here: http://www.smartusa.com/smart-car-technical-specifications.aspxBase price is $11,590.Sharon N.
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #1 – January 27, 2008, 08:44:19 am Yahoo Message Number: 88915Quote The March 2008 issue of Motorhome has a photo on the cover of a smart fortwo being loaded into a motorhome with a side-loading garage. Looks convenient. ...until you ask how the heck does the driver of the car, get out?-Dave
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #2 – January 27, 2008, 09:45:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 88918wrote: This could be our next toad.http://www.smartusa.com/ --- I've been reading about these little things; I wonder how many clowns could pop out of one? ;-)If I ever decided to tow, I'd consider a Smart Car, but I'd want to verify others' positive towing experiences with it first and make sure that any bugs were "designed out" of the tow set-up before I'd get one. They are cute, though! Now, if LD would make one of those rear compartments just a little bit bigger.....Joan
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #3 – January 27, 2008, 11:00:37 am Yahoo Message Number: 88921QuoteIf I ever decided to tow, I'd consider a Smart Car, but I'd want to verify others' positive towing experiences with it first and make sure that any bugs were "designed out" of the tow set-up before I'd get one. Joan, I don't know anything about towing these Smart Cars 4-down, but we DID see a motorhome this past year towing one 4-down. Other than not having much room for storage of "stuff," I think they'd make a great toad!Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Older LDs For Sale, CA Central Coast Reply #4 – January 27, 2008, 11:11:54 am Yahoo Message Number: 88922Here are two from Craig's List:http colon //slo dot craigslist dot org/rvs/549633617.htmlIn Morro Bay, CA, 1985. Not much in the way of details, but it's a clean-looking rear bath model (almost certainly 22') with 65,000 miles.http colon //slo dot craigslist dot org/rvs/523605243.htmlThis one is in San Luis Obispo, $3,000 for a 1988 22'. The ad says, NEEDS NEW ENGINE, so this is a fixer for sure. Interior looks nice, 2-year-old refrigerator, good tires.Sonsie
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #5 – January 27, 2008, 05:38:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88932Quote This could be our next toad. http://www.smartusa.com/> Base price is $11,590.Sharon N. I was an early registrant in the Smart for 2 program and just last week got my "final configuration" email. Went down to our Mercedes dealership where they had about 9 vehicles in stock. Three for show, one to drive and the rest destined for folks who registered before us.Was disappointed. First off, 4 down towing is absolutely possible but not until the factory develops a tow bar. "Under development, no scheduled date." The tranny is a clutch manual transmission with the clutch "automated."The decent model (Passion) is around $14k, expect to pay at least that. The cheaper model is just that; cheap.There is plenty of room for my 6'3" body and a big passenger. Surprisingly, I even fit under the sunroof model without touching the roof.The seats are only adjustable fore/aft with back tilt, all manual. If you are short (as my spouse is) the seat length will definitely cause problems since her knees bend about 4" before the seat ends.It reminds me of a VW Jetta cut off just behind the front seat and the rear wheels moved forward. Some storage - 4 grocery bags maybe.Yes, it's gonna be a great tow but it's certainly not for everyone. I'll stick with my HHR.Don
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #6 – January 27, 2008, 05:56:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88934"Don Anderson" wrote:Was disappointed. First off, 4 down towing is absolutely possible but not until the factory develops a tow bar. "Under development, no scheduled date." The tranny is a clutch manual transmission with the clutch "automated."Quote--- Here's the "tech specs" page: http://www.smartusa.com/smart-car-technical-specifications.aspxWhy the engine requires 91 octane gas, I have no idea! Granted, it's only 8.5 gallons of 91 octane, but.... is this octane requirement because of the compression ratios of the engine? And, could somebody please explain how the "automated clutch" works? Thank you.Joan
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #7 – January 27, 2008, 06:37:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88936Thanks for the report, Don. It's certainly an interesting little car. "The tranny is a clutch manual transmission with the clutch 'automated.' " I was curious about that when I read it in their specs. Can you tell us just how the clutch differs from a standard one? In other words, how does this "automation" they're talking about work?And while I'm asking questions, can you shed any light on the Cabriolet model's "rear glass window that is fully automatic and can be infinitely adjusted to any position while driving at any speed" (quoting their website)? I'm still trying to figure out what that means, and why I'd want to change the position of my rear window while driving."4 down towing is absolutely possible but not until the factory develops a tow bar."I'm guessing that given the fortwo's potential as a toad, the usual third parties such as Blue Ox will be offering towbars in the near future, so we probably won't have to wait on Mercedes. The Smart fortwo has potential as a lightweight toad. My main concern with this vehicle is reliability. Daimler, once known for its highly reliable cars, has sunk to near the bottom of the heap since the 1998 Chrysler merger. I don't know what the causes are, but a look at the frequency-of-repair data in the annual Consumer Reports auto issue paints a sad picture of the results. Perhaps now that Daimler has (mostly) dumped Chrysler into the lap of Cerberus Capital Management, things will improve, but that remains to be seenAndy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #8 – January 27, 2008, 07:46:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88937And, could somebodyQuoteplease explain how the "automated clutch" works? Thank you.Joan This article talks about the transmission, and more. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2007-11-29-smart_N.htmEd
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #9 – January 27, 2008, 08:17:15 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88938My main concern Quotewith this vehicle is reliability. Daimler, once known for its highly reliable cars, has sunk to near the bottom of the heap since the 1998 Chrysler merger.Andy Baird You're right, Andy. The Smartcar comes with a 2 year, 24,000 mile warranty. The smallest warranty period of any car sold in America. That tells you something about the manufactures opinion of the vehicles quality.Ed
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #10 – January 27, 2008, 08:25:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88939"Ed" wrote: This article talks about the transmission, and more. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2007-11-29- smart_N.htm ---- Thanks, Ed! That "automated clutch" transmission on the Smart Car sounds virtually identical to one that my father's 1950-something Mercedes sedan had! It was a column shift, had no clutch pedal, and I remember that the thing was a real slug, and impossible to shift without bucking, lurching, and revving the engine between gears! And, the thing was prone to suddenly shifting unexpectedly into a lower gear while going down the road! Maybe the transmission has been on the drawing board for the last 50+ years -- apparently without a whole lot of improvement! ;-)Joan
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #11 – January 27, 2008, 10:08:53 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88941"This article talks about the transmission, and more..." I read it, and it sounds as if the fourtwo's "automated" clutch is a jerky, spastic affair. Jeez, I wish they had just put in a standard clutch. With 35 years of experience, I can manage one of those smoothly!Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Towable smart fortwo car Reply #12 – January 27, 2008, 10:17:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88944"jctaylor1941" jctaylor1941@...> authored in part:Quote" That "automated clutch" transmission on the Smart Car sounds virtually identical to one that my father's 1950-something >Mercedes sedan had! It was a column shift, had no clutch pedal, and I >remember that the thing was a real slug, and impossible to shift >without bucking, lurching, and revving the engine between gears." Now I am probably the junior in this forum, but my first car was a 1947 4-door De- Soto Sedan with a "Hydromatic" transmission (fluid clutch). Column shift from first to second gear or (second to third), and automatic shift from first to second or second to third. Joan you are correct about revving the engine between gears to accomplish the gear change. Inevitably, when you were in a hurry, the damn thing would not shift and you would rev it up about 20 times in 30 seconds trying. But get a block from your destination, and it would shift perfectly! I hope they have improved on the design...Slammy5150/Paul[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #13 – January 27, 2008, 10:27:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88946Quote "This article talks about the transmission, and more..." "I read it, and it sounds as if the fourtwo's "automated" clutch is a jerky, spastic affair. Jeez, I wish they had just put in a standard clutch. With 35 years of experience, I can manage one of those smoothly!"Quote Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ This story sounds familiar. Anyone remember the Yugo?Chris
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #14 – January 27, 2008, 11:17:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88949QuoteI was an early registrant in the Smart for 2 program and just last week got my "final configuration" email. [snip] Yes, it's gonna be a great tow but it's certainly not for everyone. I'll stick with my HHR.Don Don, thanks for that first hand account. It sounds like they need to do some work on the USA version to make it as popular here as it is in Europe.Sharon N.
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #15 – January 28, 2008, 08:33:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 88954QuoteWas disappointed. First off, 4 down towing is absolutely possible but not until the factory develops a tow bar. Well, *somebody* must have designed both a tow bar AND a base plate for the Smart Car because, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we saw a motorhome towing one 4-down this past year. They passed us going down the road, so we didn't get a chance to talk with them, but if one person can do it, the equipment is out there.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Towable smart fortwo car - transmission Reply #16 – January 28, 2008, 09:30:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 88956Quote This could be our next toad.http://www.smartusa.com/ Well, we just have to chime in here, just cause we do things different here in the states, having driven them in England/Europe, and drooled over the sportscar/convertible in Mexico. They even have a little SUV!! We were on the list for a Smart, took a test drive on the original batch, and passed because of the horridly shifting transmission.We just came back from Thailand, where we rented a Honda Jazz (Fit in American). The Thai version has a 7 speed variable shift, accessed on the steering wheel, the floor shifter was the standard automatic setup. So, if you needed UMHHHPT, you touched the paddle shift on the steering wheel. Very smooth and quite powerful for such a little car (although BIG there!) Note the American Fit doesn't have that option! So, go figger... why the difference?? Maybe if Smart (Mercedes) and Honda (Fit) put their heads together, they could have a REALLY neat little car!Lisa and Blue, plus Steve the slow LD convert!
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #17 – January 28, 2008, 09:36:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 88957Quote "This article talks about the transmission, and more..." I read it, and it sounds as if the fourtwo's "automated" clutch is a jerky, spastic affair. Jeez, I wish they had just put in a standard clutch. With 35 years of experience, I can manage one of those smoothly!Quote Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/ I've been following 2008 smart car details very closely for the past 3 months (ever since I saw that they only weigh 1800 lb & are towable 4-down - not the case with earlier Euro/Canadian model). I started out looking at it as an alternative to trailering a motorcycle or 2 scooters. I would however caution anyone from relying too heavily on individual MSM articles for judgment. On the transmission, reviewers tend to want to drive it like a typical automatic (i.e. mash the accelerator) and if that is done it will be jerky. There is a technique to learn for driving these cars. This is one reason why smartusa's marketing in 2007 consisted of a roadshow across the country where they had approx 70,000 take test drives. (An earlier, more crude version of this transmission was used in the previous model, 800,000 of which were sold and somehow all of these people are surviving the experience, many in city driving.) There is a very active forum on all matters related to smart cars(smartcarofamerica dot com) and if you are interested in any details on these cars, I'd urge you to look at their forum. A fair number of people have started to take delivery of these new 2008 US models within the past 2 weeks, and many have started to post a lot of detailed comments on many items (mpg, transmission operation, ride, storage space, handling on the freeway, operation in snow, etc - I'm waiting for toad experience...). I find these much more informative & objective on pros & cons than press reviews. {As an LD owner, I've learned the best, most accurate information usually comes from the users! If not them, the factory!:)} Now that they are at dealers, I expect to test drive one within the next month or 2. I placed a $99 deposit 2 months ago (smartusa dot com) and have 1 year to decide if I actually will buy (and of course need DW to agree and right now she's a skeptic, while I'm on the fence looking for a showstopper). I think in the RV world these may pan out as a good toad for 1-2 people - certainly would be drier & more spacious than 2-wheeled transportation! Reliability remains a question, but mostly because they are using a relatively new 1L, Mitsubishi 3 cylinder engine. More might be learned by monitoring user experiences over time - but at least you should know Chrysler never had any involvement in the smart venture (only MB). However, reliability on a toad should be less of an issue than on a standalone vehicle: I'm already set up to tow it anywhere for repair!Dale
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #18 – January 28, 2008, 11:02:56 am Yahoo Message Number: 88963"reliability on a toad should be less of an issue than on a standalone vehicle: I'm already set up to tow it anywhere for repair!"Good point about reliability... but it's only true if repairs are readily available when needed. Since the Smart cars are new to the US, local mechanics aren't familiar with them (how many do you suppose have ever seen a three-cylinder engine of any kind?); parts availability is an open question... and right now, Smart dealerships are few and far between.For example, there are no Smart dealers on the west coast between Portland, OR and Sacramento, CA. If you break down in Tennessee, your nearest dealership is about 500 miles away. And if you have problems in Montana, it's nearly a thousand miles to the nearest Smart-authorized repair center. That's a l-o-n-g tow! Of course this isn't Smart's fault. After all, the car has just been introduced here, and I'm sure they're building up their dealership network as fast as they can. But it is something to think about before deciding to become an "early adopter."Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Towable smart fortwo car - transmission Reply #19 – January 28, 2008, 12:31:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88967"Lisa T." stonehouse24@...> authored in part:Quote"So, if you needed UMHHHPT, you touched the paddle shift on the steering wheel. Very smooth and quite powerful for such a little car (although BIG there!) Note the American Fit doesn't have that option! Lisa, The 2008 Honda Fit Sport model offers the Paddle Shifters on the steering wheel. During a recent test drive, found the paddle shifters to be very convenient and, well, sporty!Slammy5150/Paul[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Towable Smart fortwo car Reply #20 – January 28, 2008, 01:06:13 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88969yes Chris, I remember the Yugo, Was told by an owner to get one with a rear window defroster to keep your hands warm while pushing it. Bob & VernaChris Horst chorst_2000@...> wrote:
Re: Towable smart fortwo car - transmission Reply #21 – January 28, 2008, 07:55:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88984Living
Re: Towable smart fortwo car - transmission Reply #22 – January 28, 2008, 09:39:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88989Second that from South Florida...never seen such a place for gratuitous speed in parking lots of all sizes, running yellow and fully red lights, cell phoning, and just plain lack of thought, as well as criminal speed....just gotta get there and phone in the ETA! We're lucky to not have been T-boned more than once. We're driving a rental Ford Focus here and that's waaayyy to small for comfort vis-a-vis above conditions. A Smartfortwo is much too small to consider for safety reasons (I know about the 4 airbags), even on a back road at home in Maine...where the moose are tall and the deer are everywhere!TinaP NE 59 Thinking a Course in Physics Should Be Required for a Driver's License Larry W lw5315us@...> wrote: Living in Southern California, where every other vehicle seems to be an aggressively driven 6000+lb SUV or lifted 4X4 crew-cab pickup, an 1800 lb micro-toad is a little small for my taste....Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #23 – January 30, 2008, 01:38:30 am Yahoo Message Number: 89023Joan, The march 08 issue of motorhome mag says the smart to be sold in the US is designed for flat 4 towing. My only reservation is its price . Bob & Verna Linda & Earl Hylton elh3946@...> wrote: > If I ever decided to tow, I'd consider a Smart Car, but I'd want to Quoteverify others' positive towing experiences with it first and make sure that any bugs were "designed out" of the tow set-up before I'd get one. Joan, I don't know anything about towing these Smart Cars 4-down, but we DID see a motorhome this past year towing one 4-down. Other than not having much room for storage of "stuff," I think they'd make a great toad!Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Towable smart fortwo car Reply #24 – January 31, 2008, 12:02:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 89057Others in this group have pointed out how dangerous an accident between an ultracompact and a typical SUV would be. I've seen figures suggesting that if you have an accident in a car like the Smart fortwo, your chances of death are roughly doubled. On the other hand, we've often discussed carrying a small motorcycle or large scooter in lieu of a toad, and some members are doing this right now. Yet when I was riding a motorcycle, I was always aware that statistically, in any accident a motorcycle rider is ten times as likely to be killed as a person driving a car. So whether you consider that an ultracompact such as the Smart fortwo poses acceptable risks depends on what you compare it to. It may be twice as dangerous as a Jeep or a Subaru Forester... but it's probably five times safer than any motorcycle. You can quibble about the exact numbers, but I think you get my point. Even a small steel cage around you is a lot safer than no cage at all.Just something to think about. :-)Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
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