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Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Yahoo Message Number: 87388
My wife and I bought our first LD (1991 23.5 RB) last July.  It was meant to be our "starter" to help us figure out if we like RVing or not.  So far it's been great.  We have put a few thousand dollars into it doing the kinds of maintenance that seem pretty reasonable for an older vehicle (new tires were probably the single biggest expense).
We've taken a few longer trips and a whole bunch of weekend camping trips.  These LDs really hold up!  People regularly ask if it's new...
 Now that we're hooked, we're evaluating how this size / layout suits us and we think we might want to have a little more room in anticipation of full-timing for 6-12 months.

I think the two things we don't like about the current layout are:

1. We've actually gotten very comfortable sleeping in the cab-over bed  (I think I get a better night's sleep there than on my $1,000+  mattress at home).  However, we miss being able to have our little dog  jump up in bed with us to just hang out on a lazy morning.  We think  we might like to have some kind of floor plan with a bed on the floor.

2. When the weather is good we spend the bulk of our time outdoors so
 we don't feel cramped inside.  However, when we spend more time indoors due to cold/wet weather we miss having a little separation between rooms to get "alone time."

I've spent a little time looking at floor plans and pictures of LDs posted for sale and I think the 26.5 MB might work for us.
 We would convert the rear lounge into a bed at night.  The rear lounge would also provide the separation needed so we don't feel so on top of each other when cooped up indoors during the day.

I guess we would just use the cab-over bed for storage -- just lightweight items like blankets, linens, and extra clothes.  That seems like kind of a waste of space, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to pack much weight into that area.
 I would appreciate any comments or advice anybody can share that might help us decide what to get.

Does anybody else convert the lounge to a bed and back on a daily basis?  Is it difficult and/or time consuming?  Is it comfortable?

I noticed that in recent years (2000 I think) they made the body wider.  Does this make a significant difference?  Is it enough better to make it worth looking only at newer units?

Are there any other significant reasons to consider newer vs. older units (new features, etc.)?  We have been very happy with our 1991 -- much to our surprise.  We were thinking we'd probably go to something a little newer (1998, 1999) but not necessarily much newer than that unless there were some compelling reasons.

We live in Texas where LDs seem to be few and far between so we are trying our best to come up with a good game plan knowing we likely will not be able to check out different floor plans in person.

Thanks in advance!
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87389
Quote
We would convert the rear lounge into a bed at night.  The rear lounge would also provide the separation needed so we don't feel so on top of each other when cooped up indoors during the day.
This is the reason we decided on the MB although I still like the openness of the RB.  If you would like to look at our 2002 MB contact me off line at bmwgt31995 at yahoo dot com.  We live near Bee Cave, west of Austin.

Malcolm
2002 Mid Bath
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87390
Errol,

When my wife and I were shopping for our LD we were contemplating full-timing. We asked Ed at the factory which plan was best for that. He said the 26.5' models due their combination of size and Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC). More room than the 23.5' models. More CCC than the 30' models.
 This is a big purchase. Why not spend a little bit on a trip to Montclair as part of your research? There is no substitute for the factory show room when evaluating the different models. They're all there and you can move back and forth between them as long as you want. Although you're not looking for a new model the new models are substantially the same as the ones you're considering. Be sure to call ahead to make sure the models you want to see are actually on display. This time of year they are switching and they can be short of some. Many have switched their preference once they got to the show room.

There is a file
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87392
In a message dated 12/21/07 11:05:41 AM, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:

Quote
when we spend more time indoors due to cold/wet weather we miss having a little separation between rooms to get "alone time."
If your looking for a way to be alone I doubt the size or layout of the LD is your biggest problem!! Just Kidding
Todd

See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87393
I started out looking at the MB as well, for the very same reasons. I decided against it after reading threads about the lack of room for the driver (driver seat butts against refrigerator), and switched to the Rear Kitchen, which is basically the MB with the beds in front of bath, and kitchen/dinette in the back, reversed, if you will. When I did that, I decided I wanted the entertainment center, which is an option on the RK, but not on the MB. For my wife and I, this was the right choice. Still 2 areas with separation, still the dual couches that make into the bed. And now, we have more storage than we can fill. The entertainment center gives you gobs of storage. YMMV, but, again, for us, this was the way to go. BTW, I am 6'2" and 265#. The RK has enough room for the driver seat for me, but only enough. I have been glad not to have the lesser amount the MB would have given me.
Again, YMMV.
 As to year, our files section contains documents that discuss the LD changes over the years. Use them to help you attain what is important to you. In our case, I wanted the V10, which meant 97 or newer (as did RK). I also wanted power steps, generator, solar, and above mentioned entertainment center. Took us about 3 years of looking to find the right (used) one, but we eventually did. Meanwhile, our needs and wants ebbed and flowed, as I learned through research and (mostly) reading the threads on this list, exactly what I did want.
 Since you already have an LD, you can afford patience, and I counsel you to use it. As someone else said, if you can, go to the factory.
Better yet, join a GTG so you can see and discuss other floor plans with those who live with them. Ask what they like and don't like. You will get lots of good answers here, but none will match seeing the real thing and talking to the real owners.

good luck!

Lee
2000 TK
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87396
Quote from: errolsiegel

Does anybody else convert the lounge to a bed and back on a daily basis?  Is it difficult and/or time consuming?  Is it comfortable?

I noticed that in recent years (2000 I think) they made the body wider.  Does this make a significant difference?  Is it enough better to make it worth looking only at newer units?
 We sold our 1993 Multiplan when we upgraded to a Midbath in 2006. Of course, it's a matter of choice, but we love the view from the rear windows - something you don't get with a rear bath model.
 We always convert the rear couches to a bed every night. It's not difficult, and the resulting bed is larger than a king size bed - more than enough room for the two of us and our cat (who claims half the space for himself!). We have tried sleeping in the cabover area, but I just don't like the restricted headroom and the need to climb down for nighttime bathroom breaks.
 Regarding the rear bed, it seems that everyone has a preferred sleeping orientation. We sleep crosswise with our heads to the passenger side of the rig. We open the driver's side bed completely and then pull the passenger side bed to meet it. Doing it this way results in the passenger bed only needing to be opened part way, leaving the sofa back intact as a head board. We can comfortably watch TV in bed this way as well. Others that I have spoken to sleep with their heads at the back of the rig. I would add that sleeping widthwise as we do might only work well with the current wider body rigs.
 Regarding the cabover, we have completely removed the cabover bed and are using the space for storage. We added a new curtain track near the escape hatch and special ordered a new, longer, cabover curtain to accommodate the removal of the bed. We also installed inexpensive indoor/outdoor carpeting over the plywood that was exposed when the bed was removed.  During our recent 8 week trip we traveled with our two bicycles in this space as well as other assorted plastic containers. We have since decided to put the bicycles on an exterior bike rack and are redesigning the cabover space for easily accessible lightweight storage. Once this is done, we expect to have more space than we know what to do with!

Good luck with your decision.

Kathy

2006 Red Midbath
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87407
You may want to rethink the MB.  I just picked up a 2007 and was informed by the factory that the driver had 3" more leg room in the new models.
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87409
"I just picked up a 2007 and was informed by the factory that the driver had 3" more leg room in the new models."
 By "new models," do you mean the 2008s? I want to keep the "LD models over the years" document up to date.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87423
We just ordered a 30' Twin in November.  A trip to the factory was essential to the process.
We spent parts of three days there.  We arrived pretty certain that the 26.5 MB was the way to go.  It was frustrating and disappointing to learn that they won't do an entertainment center in that model.  We're not TV watchers but really wanted the nice, discreet storage.  Being seniors, we don't plan on sleeping in the cab-over.  Alas, now I have to learn to drive a Class C AND learn to deal with 4 more feet.  I can't wait to be able to attend an outing and really begin learning! Linda Soon to be a LD owner
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87424
"It was frustrating and disappointing to learn that they won't do an entertainment center in [the midbath]. We're not TV watchers but really wanted the nice,  discreet storage. Being seniors, we don't plan on sleeping in the cab-over."

I've heard this complaint once or twice before, and it has always puzzled me. If you want to use a midbath's overcab area for storage, what's stopping you? Take out the mattress if you like, put some bins or drawers up there... if you want it to look spiffy, hire a carpenter to make a trim panel with doors to cover up the area, or make one yourself.

You could easily do all this to a 27' midbath for far less than the cost differential between a 27' and a 30' model. You'd have exactly what you want. You'd have the advantage of the 27-footer's much greater cargo capacity (CCC) compared to the 30-footer. And you wouldn't have to learn to drive the longer rig.

Seems to me you bought a larger, more expensive motorhome that you didn't really want, all because of a situation that could easily be remedied for a few hundred bucks at most. That's why I'm puzzled.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Looking for advice on upgrading from 23.5 to 26.5 (30?)
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87425
Linda

What incredibly good taste you have!  We also went in thinking that we wanted the 26MB but ended up with a 30TB and as most readers of this board know, we just couldn't be happier.
 As to driving, I highly recommend taking an RV Driving course, it was the best money we ever spent.  If you're interested, I wrote it up on my website, with a sterling recommendation for Dick Reeds Driving School.  While I believe Dick is retired, the school continues.

What color did you get and when will you take delivery?

Hope we can meet up on the road sometime, or if you're ever near, come on by see a well loved, well lived in 30TB

Kate

http://cholulared.blogspot.com &

http://www.cholulared.com

Want to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87427
"You could easily do all this to a 27' midbath for far less than the cost differential between a 27' and a 30' model. You'd have exactly what you want. You'd have the advantage of the 27-footer's much greater cargo capacity (CCC) compared to the 30-footer. And you wouldn't have to learn to drive the longer rig. "

Well I'll jump in here.
 While on paper the 26MB looked perfect, for us, it just didn't cut it at all.  We wanted not only the wonderful view out the back, but also the larger living room and kitchen area.  Sometimes what looks good on paper just doesn't look as good in real life.
 I really doubt that the lack of an entertainment center was the ONLY deciding factor, it certainly wasn't for us.  When we did the math, it turned out that a 26.5 similarly equipped to the 30TB we wanted, the difference changed from a $9000 difference down to a bit under $5000, which also influenced our decision.

Then there was the larger refrigerator and the openness of the floorplan and we just decided that the 30TB was it for us.
 Yes, as you well know, we have to monitor the CCC ALL the time, but I haven't regretted our decision one moment.  The entertainment center was just one of many deciding factors.

Kate
 http://cholulared.blogspot.com &

http://www.cholulared.com

Want to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87428
"I really doubt that the lack of an entertainment center was the ONLY deciding factor"
 That's why I asked the question. Linda's post sounded as if for her at least, the lack of overcab storage in the midbath ruled out that model, and I wondered whether there were other factors.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87429
Quote
"It was frustrating and disappointing to learn that they won't do an entertainment center in [the midbath].  ..."

.... If you want to use a midbath's overcab area for storage, what's stopping you? Take out the mattress if you like, put some bins or drawers up there...
Be just a bit cautious.

My midbath, which is loaded the same way as most others load the midbath, is virtually at the front axle's load limit of 4600 lbs (at least in the 2001 model). I have always felt (without knowing) that LD doesn't offer the entertainment center in the midbath because of that fact; that all the storage in the entertainment center would encourage the user to overload the front axle.

I don't directly know the front axle weights of the other models.
However, noting the recommended tire pressures of people who own, for instance, a rear bath (55 lbs) I conclude that at least that coach's nose must be much lighter (like 4100 lbs?).

Linley
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87430
Quote
My midbath, which is loaded the same way as most others load the midbath, is virtually at the front axle's load limit of 4600 lbs (at least in the 2001 model). I have always felt (without knowing) that LD doesn't offer the entertainment center in the midbath because of that fact;

 I don't think that's the reason at all why the entertainment center isn't offered in the MB.
 If the entertainment center was offered in the MB, TK, or RL (all floorplans where the living area is in the rear), it would make it very difficult, if not almost impossible, to watch TV from the couches.

Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Linda Hylton
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87431
"If the entertainment center was offered in the MB, TK, or RL... it would make it very difficult, if not almost impossible, to watch TV from the couches."

Very true. Watching a front-and-center-mounted TV from the rear couches in a midbath certainly wouldn't work. And I suspect few people would want to spend much time watching from the shorter dinette bench, which would be the only suitable TV-watching seat in a midbath with an entertainment center.

But Linley also brings up a good point. If indeed the MB is already near its front axle load limit, then Lazy Daze would not want to encourage people to use the overcab as storage, for fear of overloading the front axle.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87432
On Dec 24, 2007, at 10:48, Linley wrote:

Quote
My midbath, which is loaded the same way as most others load the midbath, is virtually at the front axle's load limit of 4600 lbs (at least in the 2001 model). I have always felt (without knowing) that LD doesn't offer the entertainment center in the midbath because of that fact; that all the storage in the entertainment center would encourage the user to overload the front axle.
I actually think it is simpler than that...  An entertainment center mounted TV would be impossible to SEE from the MB living area in the back.

Quote
I don't directly know the front axle weights of the other models.
However, noting the recommended tire pressures of people who own, for instance, a rear bath (55 lbs) I conclude that at least that coach's nose must be much lighter (like 4100 lbs?).
The last time I weighed in, loaded, including two people in the front seats, (somewhat more than 154 per person, although I will not provide the math on that!), the measured front axle weight was 4180.   GAWR (front) is 4600. I don't think I could stuff 420 LB up there if I had to, .

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87433
After using the MB since May when I picked it up, first for a six week trip across the country and back and then on weekend (practice/project) weekends and having tried sleeping in the back as well as the overhead, we will sleep in the back unless things change somehow when we hit the road for four months in February.  As things are now, the cab overhead will be used for lighter weight, bulk storage.  Pillows, stretched canvas for paintings, hat, caps in light plastic bens, extra comforter etc.  One of the former LD owners from this board rigged a barrier and I have copied it, which should stop things from falling down on passengers while in motion.  I am going to take the liberty of posting their picture in case others might find it useful.  Picture from Katleen and Paul Smith.
http://www.lazydazers.com/index.cfm
 In addition to this I have replaced the curtains on the plastic track with full length to the floor draperies that hide clutter and also block weather and light form the coach area as needed.  There are a lot of things that I can store up there without running the risk of overloading a front axel and actually prefer the space and shape options I have more than I would the defined spaces that would have been created by the entertainment center.  The only thing I will miss is having a TV in the kitchen dinette area for while I am cooking and eating.  Always watch evening news and morning news while in kitchen at home.  Home is an open space loft, so I have managed to get TV there so putting another TV in LD kitchen area for the news should be a snap.  If I cannot accomplish it, I will assign that to Jim as a project. 35 years later and he still takes direction very well.

By the way Dec 21 was my last day of work Jan 17th is Jim's last day.

This is scary.
It is happening and I'm not sure what it is going to be like 24/7.
I married him for better or worse just not for lunch.  The man has got to get a hobby Henry
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87434
Quote
I actually think it is simpler than that...  An entertainment center mounted TV would be impossible to SEE from the MB living area in the back.
Well, we did purchase a MB in 2006 despite our desire to have the entertainment center installed instead of the cabover bed. Actually, we just wanted the cabinetry but without the TV because we knew that we would not want to watch TV from the dinette. Since we live in the Southern California area and previously owned a 1993 LD, we've had numerous occasions over the years to talk to Steve Newton about the issue of the entertainment center in the MB. He has always been emphatic about refusing to put the entertainment center in the MB specifically because the TV could not be viewed from the rear living area.
He said that he relented once years ago and did it only to have the buyers sell the rig a year later. The new owners then contacted LD to have the center removed and the bed put in.
 Actually, Steve did us a favor by not agreeing to the entertainment center in the MB. We have since removed the bed ourselves and are in the process of customizing our new storage area much more optimally than the installed cabinetry would have been. I only wish we could have eliminated the two cabover windows. But we can easily work around that.
 We are only planning to store lightweight items in this space, but if you figure that it can sleep two adults in that space, that's 300 lbs to work with.

Kathy

2006 Red MB
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87436
"We are only planning to store lightweight items in this [overcab] space, but if you figure that it can sleep two adults in that space, that's 300 lbs to work with."

Yes, but two adults sleeping there while you're parked are not the same as 300 pounds riding up there while you're driving down the road.
When parked, you don't have to worry about handling or about the load on the front suspension, but driving is a different story.
 Now, knowing Lazy Daze, I'm sure there's a good safety factor designed into the overcab, and I'm not trying to scare you... just saying that your plan to store only lightweight items up there is probably a good one to stick to. :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Overcab storage
Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87470
I'm amazed and appreciative of all the feedback.  Especially Linley's caution re: axle weight.  I will do my homework.  And thanks Kate, we've felt like voyeurs- surreptitiously looking at Cholula Red's photos (and wishing for newer ones).  Also, RV Driving School gets regular plugs from us.  It was the single best thing we did as total newbies in 2000.  We intend to do a one-day refresher to help with the new driving skills.
 As I said, it was about the storage - not the TV.  (Although my mother's been dead for years, and I can watch TV from the dinette if I want to!)  Andy's right, of course, we could have had custom cabinetry made.  But I KNEW the quality of LD's work and dreaded the thought of hiring an unknown.  Kate's right about other factors, too.  A dedicated bedroom is a precious luxury.  More storage and fridge space.  Anyway, it's all an adventure and I'm really excited about getting it the end of March.  Thanks all.   Linda
Re: Overcab storage/ Now cab curtains
Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87484
[snip] "In addition to this I have replaced the curtains on the plastic track with full length to the floor draperies that hide clutter and also block weather and light form the coach area as needed." [anip]
 Henry, can you describe the type of curtains you used to replace the original ones?  Are they light blocking?  Did you buy them or make them?
 On a separate note, good luck with the 24/7 thing...Time will tell, but it should work out.  Yes, a hobby, or designated tasks would be good ideas!    (Don't tell him I said that!)

Sharon N.
Re: Overcab storage/ Now cab curtains
Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87487
Quote
Henry, can you describe the type of curtains you used to replace the original ones?  Are they light blocking?  Did you buy them or make them?
Sharon, They are draperies that I bought at IKEA.  Sewed in black out lining and added pinch pleat tape at top.  Used the original pins from the old curtains to hang them.  Hung them up, pinned them - then hemmed them to correct length so that they are floor length.
When pulled back they pocket between the drivers seat and frig on left side and between the passenger seat and back of dinette on the right side.  When pulled across they cover the cab area and cab over bed/storage.  Because Jim and I boondock on city streets some nights after park and beach areas close, we can pull them so we have privacy in the coach without it looking so much like we are actually sleeping in the rig.  I did not care for the curtains that pull around over the side cab windows and windshield.  Never felt that they secured the cab enough that I could be comfortable so I just do not use them.  The curtain that pulled across the cab over always looked "high water" to me.  By removing them and doing the full length on that track it seems to work for us separating the cab from coach and I prefer the esthetic.

Quote
Yes, a hobby, or designated tasks would be good ideas!    (Don't tell him I said that!)
Seems that Santa was good to us this year.  Jim now sports a new Nikon D80 so that all the old Nikon lens from the film camera days will fit and he can resume a hobby he gave up years ago because of work and time restraints.
As for me, Santa delivered an EasyL pochade box with tripod and lots of goodies for plein air painting.  This and the fact that I have edited my studio painting equipment will allow me to paint on the road with everything I need packed into small spaces.  Will be using canvas board instead of stretched canvas and 12X16 is the largest format I will use.
Now for my birthday, maybe someone will pop for a Plein Air workshop somewhere along our rout of travel with one of several artist I admire and would like to study with.
If there are other artist out there that might be interested, this pochade box can be seen at; http://www.artworkessentials.com/ Happy Trails with a paintbrush in my hand.

Henry
Re: Overcab storage/ Now cab curtains
Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87503
"Henry, can you describe the type of curtains you used to replace the original ones?  Are they light blocking?  Did you buy them or make them?"
 I'm not Henry, but I had floor-length drapes made.  Lazy Daze gave me the name of the lady who makes their curtains.  I contacted her and she made them using the same fabric as the other curtains  (They're not lined.).  I have a Twin-King.  I sleep in the overcab bed, but during the day I have the drapes closed.  Although it makes the LD seem smaller and it's a bit darker, I really like the floor length drapes as they hide all of the junk that I put on the seats and on the bed.  I hate clutter.  I've had the drapes for a few years.  I recently purchased the better quality drape fabric from LD--the same fabric that is used on the back valances.  One of these days, I'm going to have new drapes made to replace the floor length ones that I have.

Monica NE 10
Monica
2017 MB
Re: Overcab storage/ Now cab curtains
Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 87512
Thanks Henry, and Monica, too, for the descriptions of the cab curtains. I saved the directions. Perhaps when we get back to TN and get the sewing machine unpacked I'll make that a priority project.  I like my Easy Curtains, but pull-around curtains that provide complete privacy between the cab and living area of the LD sound ideal for the city street parking you mentioned or other situations when a quicker method is preferable.
 Jim's new camera sounds great, especially since he'll be able to use the existing lenses he already has.

Sharon N.