Kate KOs FoMoCo December 13, 2007, 08:22:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 87114Congratulations, Kate (aka Kathy) Klein, for taking the Big Dog to task - with the help of MotorHome magazine. You can read all about it the Hot Line section of the January issue - the letters nicely positioned in view of the month's Lazy Daze ad.Chris
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #1 – December 13, 2007, 08:50:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 87115ChrisCan you email me the text? I don't get my mail al that often and would like to read it.ThanksKate http://cholulared.blogspot.com &http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #2 – December 13, 2007, 09:19:17 am Yahoo Message Number: 87116QuoteCan you email me the text? I don't get my mail al that often and would like to read it. I'd like to read it, too, but we don't subscribe to Motorhome Magazine. Is it short enough to post here? If not, would you send me the text via email, too?Thanks.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #3 – December 13, 2007, 11:41:50 am Yahoo Message Number: 87118Quote ChrisCan you email me the text? I don't get my mail al that often and would like to read it.ThanksKateKate, it is not available online (I called to ask). It's too long to retype here. If I can successfully scan it, I will and will send it to those who are interested. I won't get to that until later today or tomorrow.Chris
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #4 – December 13, 2007, 07:55:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87143"Kate, it is not available online (I called to ask). It's too long to retype here. If I can successfully scan it, I will and will send it to those who are interested. I won't get to that until later today or tomorrow."ChrisYes please email me a copy, I'm dying to read it since I haven't heard anything from either Ford or Motorhome Magazine.Kate http://cholulared.blogspot.com &http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #5 – December 13, 2007, 08:45:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87147Quote "Kate, it is not available online (I called to ask). It's too long to retype here. If I can successfully scan it, I will and will send it to those who are interested. I won't get to that until later today or tomorrow."Chris"Yes please email me a copy, I'm dying to read it since I haven't heard anything from either Ford or Motorhome Magazine."Kate Well, it was just emailed to you. This forced me to master the scanning function on Pat's printer, something I've never done. Now I'm an expert. If anyone wants to see this MotorHome Hot Line exchange, please email me offline and I will send you the scanned letter.Chris
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #6 – December 13, 2007, 08:51:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87148I would like a copy too, thanks! Robert
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #7 – December 13, 2007, 09:07:08 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87150"This forced me to master the scanning function on Pat's printer, something I've never done. Now I'm an expert."Chris And a fine job you did too. You now qualify for a Masters in Scanology!ThanksKate http://cholulared.blogspot.com &http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096 .[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #8 – December 13, 2007, 09:14:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87152ChrisThanks for sending that to me. Unfortunately that's only what was promised us before we even got the hotel room, so basically Ford did nothing for us other than to not back out on what they promised us at the beginning of the whole debacle. In truth, we left them little choice as we insisted that they pay for our hotel or we would just stay in the rig.They also decided to not address the fact that Ford Roadside Assistance took more than 12 hours to come tow us.Oh well, I sure hope it's fixed and behind us forever.Kate http://cholulared.blogspot.com &http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #9 – December 13, 2007, 11:14:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87160On Dec 13, 2007, at 9:45 PM, Chris Horst wrote:QuoteWell, it was just emailed to you. This forced me to master the scanning function on Pat's printer, something I've never done. Now I'm an expert. If anyone wants to see this MotorHome Hot Line exchange, please email me offline and I will send you the scanned letter. The magazine IS available on the news stands, if you are not a subscriber. I am sure the copyright holders would appreciate your business
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #10 – December 13, 2007, 11:29:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87161DaveWe went looking for it today and it isn't anywhere in Socorro. I kind of felt since it was my letter that it would be ok, it's not like it's an article, simply a letter I wrote and their reply from Ford.Do I not own my own letters? Probably not, since it was published. I take full responsibility for the error, I just didn't want to wait till I got my issue from home (every 6 weeks or so) or until I could find it in another town.My bad.Kate http://cholulared.blogspot.com &http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #11 – December 14, 2007, 08:09:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 87163"The magazine IS available on the news stands, if you are not a Quotesubscriber. I am sure the copyright holders would appreciate your business." Dave, in my unlegal opinion, I would think the "fair use" exemption to (U.S.) copyright law would apply in this case.Chris
Re: Kate KOs FoMoCo Reply #12 – December 14, 2007, 09:42:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 87164QuoteThe magazine IS available on the news stands, if you are not a subscriber. I am sure the copyright holders would appreciate your business Only if you're in some large town with a newsstand or a large bookstore with an extensive magazine collection. You're not going to find it in your normal small-town grocery store or bookstore (even assuming the town that you're in HAS a bookstore!). We're currently in Deming, NM, and there would be no place in town where we could go down and buy Motorhome Magazine or any other specialty magazine of this type.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #13 – December 14, 2007, 10:17:16 am Yahoo Message Number: 87165On Dec 14, 2007, at 9:09 AM, Chris Horst wrote:QuoteDave, in my unlegal opinion, I would think the "fair use" exemption to (U.S.) copyright law would apply in this case. Clearly referencing the article and even citing it is fair use, but somehow I think that stops before you get to "I am not a subscriber, could you copy it and send it to me?" Further, at over 3,500 subscribers, this group is one of the largest gatherings in all of RVdom, regardless of our association with our favorite product. I can virtually guarantee lifewithalazydazerv is filled with magazine editors, publishers, authors and columnists. Probably not a good place to be trading copyrighted materials, or even discussing it for that matter. The magazine is readily available, most RV dealers and camping stores carry it, and I saw it on the shelf at a Borders I was recently in. -Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis (just a dumb network engineer from Indiana)
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #14 – December 14, 2007, 10:30:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 87166Dave, It was my letter and response from Ford that started this, so I take responsibility for it.Could we not start a whole thread on the legality of copyrights and let this be? Again, I take responsibility for this, it won't happen again and you have properly chastened us.Katehttp://cholulared.blogspot.com &http://www.cholulared.comWant to find us? Click below, we're #3096 http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=3096Clearly referencing the article and even citing it is fair use, but somehow I think that stops before you get to "I am not a subscriber, could you copy it and send it to me?" Further, at over 3,500 subscribers, this group is one of the largest gatherings in all of RVdom, regardless of our association with our favorite product. I can virtually guarantee lifewithalazydazerv is filled with magazine editors, publishers, authors and columnists. Probably not a good place to be trading copyrighted materials, or even discussing it for that matter. The magazine is readily available, most RV dealers and camping stores carry it, and I saw it on the shelf at a Borders I was recently in. -Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis (just a dumb network engineer from Indiana)[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #15 – December 14, 2007, 11:19:50 am Yahoo Message Number: 87170At 06:09 AM 12/14/2007, you wrote:QuoteDave, in my unlegal opinion, I would think the "fair use" exemption to (U.S.) copyright law would apply in this case. First, let me say that as far as I'm concerned, it's fine if Kate receives a one-off copy of her letter and Ford's reply, even if it may be against copyright law. She actually HAS paid for it, in a way, via her subscription. I think even the most law-abiding citizen would agree, especially given the circumstances.However, "fair use" exemptions are based on how much of a single entity is used--in this case, her letter. Fair use varies and has a lot of vagueness to it, but essentially it forbids using, say, all of short poem, or a substantial amount (say more than a stanza) of a longer poem. Even if the poem is in a longer work of 500 pages, the individual work (the poem) is what counts. You want to avoid destroying the owner's ability to earn money from his or her creation. If you borrow a substantial portion, it creates a situation where the original owner may be losing income.Kate almost certainly signed away her rights to her letter when she submitted it for publication and it was used, so presumably the magazine owns the copyright now. If she did not, ownership of letters is another complex area of copyright law, and one I would not want to tackle! I am not an intellectual rights lawyer, but I've worked in publishing for over 30 years, and have spent a lot of that time working with the copyright law (which just recently went through yet another iteration).SonsieSonsie Conroy 2001 26.5 RK Central CA
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #16 – December 14, 2007, 12:19:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87171I agree with Kate that we should just let this thing die. We have all (with the exception of one) posted a cartoon in our office or forwarded a snippet of information without a second thought. Now we know that it is not legal or proper. However, I do take exception when I am being chastised with a "but somehow I think," chastise me, when you know. Moving on to another subject, Kate, thank you for the heads up on the Nuvi 650 as found @ Costco online. We had the opportunity to try it out during the recent caravan at Live Oak in Santa Barbara County. After the caravan, we traveled North 5 miles to Lake Cachuma Recreation Area and stayed another week. We transfered the Nuvi to the toad, and although I am some what familiar with the area, had a blast exploring using it as our guide. Ended up at Jalama Beach and experienced the famous "Jalama Beach Burger" for a sunset dinner. Surprisingly enough, we did not have to use an external antenna as the internal antenna was strong, always receiving full signal strength. A great GPS package for a decent price! Again my thanks!Slammy5150/Paul and Pat "MERVN" 06-30' IB &"MERVN2" The Wonder Toad. So. Cal[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #17 – December 14, 2007, 03:05:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87177Quote I agree with Kate that we should just let this thing die.We have all (with the exception of one) posted a cartoon in our office or forwarded a snippet of information without a second thought. Now we know that it is not legal or proper. The legal doctrine of de minimis non curat lex, "the law does not care about trivial things," provides a de minimis copying defense against infringement. When the plaintiff establishes only a trivial use of the copyrighted work by the defendant, there is no infringement.
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #18 – December 14, 2007, 03:23:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87180--- In lifewithalazydazerv @yahoogroups. com, Ed" etdcaw@...> authored:Quote"The legal doctrine of de minimis non curat lex, "the law does not care about trivial things," provides a de minimis copying defense against infringement. When the plaintiff establishes only a trivial use of the >copyrighted work by the defendant, there is no infringement. Yikes!!!!But on the other hand, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!(found it on my nifty Nuvi 650 that Kate Rxd) Slammy5150/Paul[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #19 – December 14, 2007, 04:10:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87182QuoteThe legal doctrine of de minimis non curat lex, "the law does not care about trivial things," provides a de minimis copying defense against infringement. When the plaintiff establishes only a trivial use of the copyrighted work by the defendant, there is no infringement. You took the words right out of my mouth, Ed! ;-)Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Kate KOs FoMoColetter and copywrite Reply #20 – December 18, 2007, 03:44:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87313How sad...first we're a cult and now we're trivial...when will the indignities end?TinaPPaul S Fountain slammy5150@...> wrote: --- In lifewithalazydazerv @yahoogroups. com, Ed" etdcaw@...> authored:Quote >"The legal doctrine of de minimis non curat lex, "the law does not care >about trivial things," provides a de minimis copying defense against >infringement. When the plaintiff establishes only a trivial use of the >copyrighted work by the defendant, there is no infringement. Yikes!!!!But on the other hand, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!(found it on my nifty Nuvi 650 that Kate Rxd) Slammy5150/Paul[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Topic: Kate KOs FoMoCo (Read 4 times)
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Topic: Kate KOs FoMoCo (Read 4 times)
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