Tire Wear December 12, 2007, 12:07:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87086For those of you that have knowledge of or have experienced this problem in the past. I have a 2002 LD(57K miles) on a E350 chassis that in the last 10K miles has been experiencing unusual wear on the front tires. I carry 55 lbs. in the front tires and 65 in the rear tires( both 5 lbs over Mfg Specs). Rig has been weighed. In August the right front tire was diagnosed with cupping and an adjuster was installed during the alignment. It seemed to steer fine for the first 3-4K miles but then the left front started showing unusual wear. Middle tread protruding considerably farther out than the treads on either side--?? I don't want to keep chasing this problem and putting a band aid on it instead of truly solving the problem.. Chasing can get expensive.Any info you can furnish will be greatly appreciated.John K
Re: Tire Wear Reply #1 – December 12, 2007, 01:39:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87091Quote For those of you that have knowledge of or have experienced this problem in the past. I have a 2002 LD(57K miles) on a E350 chassis that in the last 10K miles has been experiencing unusual wear on the front tires. I carry 55 lbs. in the front tires and 65 in the rear tires( both 5 lbs over Mfg Specs). Rig has been weighed. In August the right front tire was diagnosed with cupping and an adjuster was installed during the alignment. It seemed to steer fine for the first 3-4K miles but then the left front started showing unusual wear. Middle tread protruding considerably farther out than the treads on either side--?? I don't want to keep chasing this problem and putting a band aid on it instead of truly solving the problem.. Chasing can get expensive. From what little I've read, I'd say that cupping is usually related to tire balance and/or bad shocks. Alignment issues usually cause wear on an the inside or outside. What kind of shocks? How old? How many miles? Once cupping has developed, it may not be possible to get that tire to wear properly.Art
Re: Tire Wear Reply #2 – December 12, 2007, 01:42:28 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87092QuoteMiddle tread protruding considerably farther out than the treads on either side--?? Missed this statement on my other post. That sounds like underinflation. Cupping is more like a checkerboard wear pattern.Art
Re: Tire Wear Reply #3 – December 12, 2007, 03:03:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87095:Quote For those of you that have knowledge of or have experienced this problem in the past. I have a 2002 LD(57K miles) on a E350 chassis John K What kind of shocks? How old? How manyQuotemiles? Art Bilstein Shocks,5 1/2 years old,57K miles.John K
Re: Tire Wear Reply #4 – December 12, 2007, 09:45:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87109Quote For those of you that have knowledge of or have experienced this problem in the past. I have a 2002 LD(57K miles) on a E350 chassis that in the last 10K miles has been experiencing unusual wear on the front tires. I carry 55 lbs. in the front tires and 65 in the rear tires( both 5 lbs over Mfg Specs). Rig has been weighed. In August the right front tire was diagnosed with cupping and an adjuster was installed during the alignment. It seemed to steer fine for the first 3-4K miles but then the left front started showing unusual wear. Middle tread protruding considerably farther out than the treads on either side--?? From what you describe and the fact that you have Bilstein shocks, I strongly suggest that you or a mechanic inspect both rubber bushings at the top of the front shock absorbers. The UPPER and LOWER bushings sandwich against the steel bracket that attaches to the frame. The UPPER bushings are more susceptible to wearing out, but they are hidden from normal view, so it is easy for mechanics to overlook this. These rubber bushings can deteriorate and fall out. Then, the shock absorber can move around and cause the symptoms you describe, along with additional noise and vibration! Rather than telling the long version of my personal experience with this (unless someone asks for it), I'll summarize: Bilstein reps told me these rubber bushing "are considered wear items" and "may not last the life of the vehicle". The shocks themselves are guaranteed for life, but not the rubber bushings. Under some conditions, the bushings can wear out, crack apart, and fall out! Shortly after my conversations with Bilstien I had the opportunity to check the bushings at the top of the front right shock absorber on an E350 or E450 chassis with Bilstein shocks (and Lazy Daze coach) that appeared to be about five years old. The upper bushing was gone! There was a gap under the top washer! At the right-front wheel well, you can see a portion of the UPPER bushing using a mirror and flashlight, to see behind the steel bracket. You can also reach around behind the steel bracket and feel for the nut, washer, and bushing. On the left side, you can get to it only from under the vehicle (that is the case on my 2006 Lazy Daze with the E450 chassis).I can give more info about this if anyone has specific questions.Dave B.
Re: Tire Wear Reply #5 – December 13, 2007, 12:59:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87120Dave B.,I think you may have hit on the culprit that is responsible for my unusual tire wear. After reading your response about the Upper bushings I went out to my LD and stuck my hand behind the steel bracket, on the right front, and felt a gap of 1/2" to 3/4". It felt like a small part of the bushing was still there but probably 80% was gone. I was able, with my thumb and index finger, to move the washer with ease.It would probably be best to replace both front shocks, don't you think? Heavy Duty setting?Others may want to take a look/feel of there shock(s)to see if they might have the same problem.Thanks Dave B.John K. QuoteAt the right-front wheel well, you can see a portion of the UPPER bushing using a mirror Quoteand flashlight, to see behind the steel bracket. You can also reach around behind the steel Quotebracket and feel for the nut, washer, and bushing. On the left side, you can get to it only Quotefrom under the vehicle (that is the case on my 2006 Lazy Daze with the E450 chassis).
Re: Tire Wear Reply #6 – December 13, 2007, 03:14:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87123I have replaced the bushings with new when shocks were good. I just removed the old bushings and replaced with new poly bushings. I used bolts and washers to pull in. I compressed the outside of the new bushings with Stainless steel hose clamps. This was on an older SOB but it worked well and lasted a long time. Not to mention cost very little. I got the new bushings at a speed shop.Garry
Re: Tire Wear Reply #7 – December 13, 2007, 04:26:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87127John, I just had my 2003 26 RB aligned at 30,000 miles by a competent place in Prescott, Az My tires were fine except for one side showing a little wear on an inside rib. The guy showed me how close it was but he still had to change some bushings on the ball joints as Ford is famous for problems in this area. Having done mechanical work around alignments I see he was right. It cost 165.00 for a simple alignment but the bushings are expensive along with the labor. When you do the shocks it might pay to check the alignment after driving the rig a bit. Take care, john leach.
Re: Tire Wear Reply #8 – December 13, 2007, 05:27:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87133If you are going to be replacing your shocks you may want to concedere Koni. Koni now has shocks available for the E-350, they are adjustable and can be fine tuned for a very nice ride. I have them on my BlueBird motorhome and also on my Ford E-350 van, I am very happy with the ride quality. These shocks come as standard equipment on BlueBird Wanderlodge You may want to call Koni and see if they have an application for your coach.I am not affiliated with Koni!Robert BrittonHollister, California
Re: Tire Wear Reply #9 – December 13, 2007, 06:55:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87137I don't know that Bilsteins would be shot after five years, but it would be worth pulling it off and having a shop check it out to see. I think the shocks are lifetime warranty, and you might just get a dealer to swap you for new ones. I will testify that shocks and bushing issues can play a huge role in tire wire, road feel and handling. If you have a Les Schwab in your area take them there. I stopped by Les Schwab with a flat in a Toyo that came with my Grand Cherokee, I told them straight out that they came with the car and that the dealer had put them on there. Turns out the object that punctured it went through the sidewall and ruined the tire. They said no problem we'll replace it under warranty. I'm thinking, what warranty, I wasn't the original purchaser. But they threw a brand new tire on there for nothing and sent me on my way. But I think Les Schwab tires are mainly Pacific Northwest?
Re: Tire Wear Reply #10 – December 13, 2007, 07:11:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87139Quote Dave B.,I think you may have hit on the culprit that is responsible for my unusual tire wear. After reading your response about the Upper bushings I went out to my LD and stuck my hand behind the steel bracket, on the right front, and felt a gap of 1/2" to 3/4". It felt like a small part of the bushing was still there but probably 80% was gone. I was able, with my thumb and index finger, to move the washer with ease.It would probably be best to replace both front shocks, don't you think? Heavy Duty setting?Others may want to take a look/feel of there shock(s)to see if they might have the same problem.Thanks Dave B.John K. At the right-front wheel well, you can see a portion of the UPPER bushing using a mirror and flashlight, to see behind the steel bracket. You can also reach around behind the steel bracket and feel for the nut, washer, and bushing. On the left side, you can get to it only from under the vehicle (that is the case on my 2006 Lazy Daze with the E450 chassis).I can give more info about this if anyone has specific questions.Dave B.
Re: Tire Wear Reply #11 – December 13, 2007, 07:59:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87144John, The shocks themselves may be OK. You can have Bilste
Re: Tire Wear Reply #12 – December 14, 2007, 03:22:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87179Quote From what you describe and the fact that you have Bilstein shocks, I strongly suggest that Quoteyou or a mechanic inspect both rubber bushings at the top of the front shock absorbers. QuoteThe UPPER and LOWER bushings sandwich against the steel bracket that attaches to the Quoteframe. The UPPER bushings are more susceptible to wearing out, but they are hidden fromQuotenormal view, so it is easy for mechanics to overlook this.These rubber bushings can deteriorate and fall out. Dave B.,Thanks for the "heads-up" on this. I had abnormal wear on my left front tire. I exchanged it with my still new spare. Periodically I would hear a clunking sound as I hit dips or pot holes but could find nothing loose. Also had Ford look things over during a 50,000 mile check-up and they found all suspension items okay. After reading your message I've checked my shock bushings (the Ford service was 4,000 miles ago) and found the upper bushing on left shock completely gone and the shock moving around loose and over against the coil spring.Bilstein owners, check those bushings (message 87109)!!!Tom Riley '04 26 RB
Re: Bilstein bushings Reply #13 – December 16, 2007, 05:35:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87254"I can give more info about this if anyone has specific questions." --- I do, I do! ;-)1. Despite trying several possible wordings, I wasn't able to get the part number for the appropriate "rubber bushings" on the Bilstein site; only the entire assembly came up. Were *you* (if the problem affected your rig) able to order replacement bushings separately, or did the parts have to be ordered from/come to a frame/suspension shop for pickup or installation there? 2. In your experience, is it possible to replace the upper bushing by unbolting the shock *only* at the top, or does the shock have to be removed entirely, bushings replaced, and then (re-compressed and) installed? (I suspect it's the latter because of the compression needs, but thought I'd ask.)Thanks for any information.Joan
Re: Bilstein bushings Reply #14 – December 16, 2007, 08:17:43 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87268Joan This wasn't addressed to me but as I have done this sort of thing, I'll take a stab at it. I took the shock off and workeds at the bench. I got my bushings by ordering from a speed shop. They didn't come for a specific shock but were sold by size. I had to measure what I needed and order accordingly. The installation was not real tough but did require some tricks. As I said I used bolts to draw the bushings in. I also used a hose clamp to compress the outside down to where it would pull through. I have seen some split bushings that would be much easier to install as you would just insert one half from each side. Also if the shock manufacturer will sell you bushings for you specific shock it would make things much simpler.I used the polyurethane bushings for my replacements.Garry
Re: Bilstein bushings Reply #15 – December 17, 2007, 03:38:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 872821. New rubber bushings: I got mine directly from Bilste
Re: Bilstein bushings Reply #16 – December 17, 2007, 03:11:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87291A trick I used to install Bistein shocks was to compress them on the bench and hold them in that length with a filiment packing tape that was about 1/2 inch wide by wrapping them lengthwise. Once I got them in place with hardware threaded a safe distance I then cut the tape with a utility knife and pulled the tape out and tightened my harware to propper torque, I use German torque--gooten tight!Lloyd in VT still shopping for an RV[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Off Topic Reply #17 – December 17, 2007, 04:05:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 87293Quote "A trick I used..."Lloyd in VT still shopping for an RV Lloyd, Your Evarts surname is very intriguing to me, an amateur genealogist. That name runs a thread through much of my family history.Please contact me off the board atSteve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Tire Wear Reply #18 – January 09, 2008, 11:50:03 am Yahoo Message Number: 88088Tom,What was your fix? Did you replace the bushings or the entire shock? Bilstein bushings? How did the rear shock bushings look?Bob Filler '02 26 MBQuoteThanks for the "heads-up" on this. I had abnormal wear on my left front tire. I exchanged it with my still new spare. Periodically I would hear a clunking sound as I hit dips or pot holes but could find nothing loose. Also had Ford look things over during a 50,000 mile check-up and they found all suspension items okay. After reading your
Re: Tire Wear Reply #19 – January 09, 2008, 05:35:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88096Quote Tom,What was your fix? Did you replace the bushings or the entire shock? Bilstein bushings? How did the rear shock bushings look?Bob Filler '02 26 MB Bob,The left front Bilstein upper bushing was completely gone, even the semi-cupped retaining washer that separates the rubber bushing from the lock nut was gone. I have no idea how that could happen but what it did was to allow the upper end of the shock to come down through the mounting flange and then the shock just kind of flopped over and rested against the coil spring. The threaded end of the shock and lock nut were still okay so Bilstein mailed me a new bushing, 2 washers and lock nut.The bushings on the rear shocks appear to be good.Tom Riley '04 26 RB
Re: Tire Wear Reply #20 – January 09, 2008, 10:52:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88108"The threaded end of the shock and lock nut were still okay "TomThe nut was still on the top of the front shock??? I cannot imagine how the concave steel washer and rubber bushing could disappear with nut still remaining in place. The rubber bushing could fall apart but not a thick, steel washer. Usually when a shock bushing goes bad, you will hear it banging long before it disintegrates.Sounds like there is more to this mystery than what meets the eye.Larry
Re: Tire Wear Reply #21 – January 10, 2008, 06:56:02 am Yahoo Message Number: 88116Quote "The threaded end of the shock and lock nut were still okay "TomThe nut was still on the top of the front shock??? I cannot imagine how the concave steel washer and rubber bushing could disappear with nut still remaining in place. The rubber bushing could fall apart but not a thick, steel washer. Usually when a shock bushing goes bad, you will hear it banging long before it disintegrates.Sounds like there is more to this mystery than what meets the eye.Larry Larry, You're right, must be more to the mystery. Actually, there had been an occasional clunking sound when hitting a dip in the road or pothole. I searched all underneath, maybe didn't "wiggle" hard enough but then Ford didn't either, I guess. I suspect that the upper concave washer, because of the difficult location (right side easy, left side difficult) was never there. It's amazing!Tom
Re: Tire Wear Reply #22 – January 10, 2008, 08:39:39 am Yahoo Message Number: 88117"Tom Riley" wrote: Actually, there had been an occasional clunking sound when hitting a dip in the road or pothole. --- Tom, did the new bushings on the Bilsteins alleviate the "clunking" you had heard before? If you haven't already (and I bet that you have!), you might check the TSB list for your 2004: http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/tsb.php/m-FORD/Please post with any new information; thanks!Joan
Re: Tire Wear Reply #23 – January 10, 2008, 03:18:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88135QuoteYou're right, must be more to the mystery. Actually, there had been an occasional clunking sound when hitting a dip in the road or pothole. I searched all underneath, maybe didn't "wiggle" hard enough but then Ford didn't either, I guess. I suspect that the upper concave washer, because of the difficult location (right side easy, Actually, you could remove the shock from one side in front, and notice little difference in normal driving. Reason is due to the action of the sway bar - assuming its hardware is in decent shape. It allows damping available on one side to also dampen the other. Removing one is certainly not recommended, but this is one reason why the shocks cannot be tested in situ.Steve
Re: Tire Wear Reply #24 – January 10, 2008, 05:53:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 88141Quote "Tom Riley" wrote: Actually, there had been an occasional clunking sound when hitting a dip in the road or pothole. --- Tom, did the new bushings on the Bilsteins alleviate the "clunking" you had heard before? If you haven't already (and I bet that you have!), you might check the TSB list for your 2004: http://www.ford-trucks.com/tsb/tsb.php/m-FORD/Please post with any new information; thanks!Joan Joan,To be honest, no, I didn't think to check TSB's but then I thought that the Bilsteins were installed by the factory, pretty sure they are. I haven't driven but a few miles since the shock with new bushing and cupped washer has been reinstalled but I believe the "clunking" is gone. Out of all six original tires on the ground, only one wore abnormally, yes, the left front. I think this was more than coincidence.BTW, had 57,000 miles on original tires and just replaced them, Michelin 225x75R16 LTX M&S, with 25% tread still remaining with the exact same model tires due to upcoming Mexico trip. Great tires! Thanks for the TSB reminder and link.Tom Riley '04 26 RB
Topic: Tire Wear (Read 4 times)
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Topic: Tire Wear (Read 4 times)
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