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A Propane Question and now a new question
Yahoo Message Number: 86470
Steve and Monti,

Thanks for the info about the propane. Our rv sits under an rv port that my husband built, so although it is a bit dark, the LD does get light.  I'll suggest my husband cover the solar panal or disconnect the fuse. We have been ignoring the beep, but today one of our daughters came to the house, heard the noise, and got worried that the RV might blow up. She frantically called my husband at work about the beep, so I guess it's time we take some action.

And, Steve's remark brings up another thought I have been worrying about.
First of all, Steve, do we not run the generator and a/c in the winter- HA!!! My husband lugs both batteries out once a month, revs everything up, let's everything run, and then takes the LD for a spin. Now, my question is this-our LD is a 2002, so the battery (from what I hear) might be coming to the end of its life. I know we take good care of our motorhome, but should I play it safe and just buy a new battery in the spring? I certainly don't want to go on a trip and have the battery die. What do people think?

Again, thanks for the advice.
Kathy
Re: Kathy's LD battery (was: A Propane Question and now a new quest
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86473
Hey Kathy, I worried about the same thing and took Ciao Baby to the mechanic, who hooked it up to a battery tester and declared the battery
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86487
"I know we take good care of our motorhome, but should I play it safe and just buy a new battery in the spring? I certainly don't want to go on a trip and have the battery die. What do people think?"

Kathy

There is a very real chance that the batteries are near the end of their lives. 6 years is a long life for an RV battery. If you are noticing that they do not have the same same capacity, that is a good indication that they are due for replacement.
BTW, it is very difficult to test a large deep-cycle battery. In my experience, a regular automotive battery tester is not up to the task.
Both of the above opinions are based upon years of professional experience maintaining battery-powered vehicles and equipment.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: Kathy's batteries (Was: A Propane Question and now a new questio
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86496
Kathy, of course you should listen to Larry W, as I would.

I'm confused as to which battery you're referring- are you talking about the coach batteries or the cab battery?

It sounded like you had 2 coach batteries (the coach batteries are the deep-cycle ones, right Larry?) but one battery on the engine and I thought that was the one you were questioning.

And if that is the case, Larry, would it be safe to assume that a battery test on the cab battery could be accurate? Otherwise, I too might need a new cab battery on CB.

Thanks for the help,
 Tessa (and Larry, I would be happy to volunteer Ned to help you with Pergo :))
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86497
Quote from: kathymd31"

Kathy, Steve & Monti
 My question is if you have a solar panel(s) and store outside, why are you pulling the house batteries? We have a 2000 MB with a single solar panel and store it outside in mid Ohio throughout the winter. The solar panel keeps them charged and they do not freeze. They are the original batteries and still seem to have plenty of life. I check them monthly and add water when necessary. When we have a snow storm I'll check the panel to make certain its clear.

Ron

HA!!! My husband lugs both batteries out once a month, revs everything
Re: Kathy's batteries (Was: A Propane Question and now a new questio
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86500
Tessa,
 Sorry for making myself clear. I was talking about the house batteries.

And, Ron,
 We were told to remove the house batteries because there ia a lot of water in them, and the water could freeze. We decided not to take a chance. We live in Pennsylvania.

Kathy
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86507
Quote
My question is if you have a solar panel(s) and store outside, why >
are you pulling the house batteries? We have a 2000 MB with a  >single solar panel and store it outside in mid Ohio
 
Quote
throughout the winter. The solar panel keeps them charged and they do
not freeze. They are
 
Quote
the original batteries and still seem to have plenty of life. I check
them monthly and add
 
Quote
water when necessary. When we have a snow storm I'll check the panel
to make certain its clear.

Quote
Ron
Hi Ron,

I can only answer for Steve K. I do *not* pull my batteries in the winter. I do use a battery disconnect switch though. I choose to disconnect the batteries because I do use an RV cover on our rig in winter which prevents the solar panel from charging. When I exercise our genset, I simply turn on the batteries, put an old piece of gutter downspout over the genset exhaust to get the exhaust out from under the RV cover, and fire it up.

Kathy, as for Larry W's suggestion to replace the batteries because they have a few years on them,  while I hate to ever disagree with his opinions, I will this time. IF your batteries are working well, why change them? I equate doing that to changing light bulbs before they burn out. While I am a nut about preventative maintenance, I do believe in the old expression, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". When my batteries actually show  the slightest signs of needing replacement, I'll do it.

You might try to locate a Trojan dealer in your area and have your batteries tested by them. The Trojan dealer near my location required the batteries be removed from the rig for the testing. I trusted their opinion since they could easily have sold me new batteries.
 Just my opinion, but your husband is doing way too much work if he is removing the batteries and then carrying them back to the LD several times each winter. As has been mentioned by several folks, a fully charged battery will not freeze. Not even in Pa.:-)
 Steve K. (And Ron, someday, I need to link up with you Great Lakes LD folks!)
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86525
Steve,
 Since Ohio has similar weather to Pennsylvania, I'll mention the fact that you keep the battery in the rv all winter.

Thanks for the input.

Kathy
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86529
"Kathy, as for Larry W's suggestion to replace the batteries because they have a few years on them, while I hate to ever disagree with his opinions, I will this time. IF your batteries are working well, why change them? I equate doing that to changing light bulbs before they burn out. While I am a nut about preventative maintenance, I do believe in the old expression, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

When my batteries actually show the slightest signs of needing replacement, I'll do it.'"

Steve K

If you re-read my posting you will see that I said; "If you are noticing that they do not have the same capacity, that is a good indication that they are due for replacement."

Isn't that the pretty much the same thing you just posted? Like you, I do not spend money on needlessly but I do try to stay aware of aging components that do require periodic replacement.
 Six years is a good, long life for a deep-cycle battery and there is a good chance that the battery is losing capacity. The life span of a battery is based upon many variables such as depth and frequency of deep discharges, proper maintenance and charging, including regular equalization. Unless your rig has 4-stage charger or a solar controller with built-in equalization, the battery is not receiving any equalization and will suffer from a shorter lifespan.
 A review of several solar energy sites indicates the average life span of a golf cart battery is 2-6 years, depending on operating conditions.
http://www.thesolar.biz/Trojan_batteries.htm>
http://tinyurl.com/2kgcyl>
http://tinyurl.com/37dgbj>

For the recommended way to properly test a deep-cycle battery, see the link below.
http://tinyurl.com/77m5o>

Tips on storage.
http://tinyurl.com/396cy6>

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86530
"Kathy, as for Larry W's suggestion to replace the batteries because they have a few years on them, while I hate to ever disagree with his opinions, I will this time. IF your batteries are working well, why change them? I equate doing that to changing light bulbs before they burn out. While I am a nut about preventative maintenance, I do believe in the old expression, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

When my batteries actually show the slightest signs of needing replacement, I'll do it.'"

Steve K

If you re-read my posting you will see that I said "If you are noticing that they do not have the same capacity, that is a good indication that they are due for replacement."

Isn't that the pretty much the same thing you just posted? Like you, I do not spend money needlessly but I do try to stay aware of aging components that do require periodic replacement.
 Six years is a good, long life for a deep-cycle battery and there is a good chance that the battery is losing capacity. The life span of a battery is based upon many variables such as depth and frequency of discharges, proper maintenance and charging, including regular equalization. Unless your rig has 4-stage charger or a solar controller with built-in equalization, the battery is not receiving any equalization and will suffer from a shorter lifespan . A review of several solar energy sites indicate the average life span of a golf cart battery is 2-6 years, depending on operating conditions.
http://www.thesolar.biz/Trojan_batteries.htm http://tinyurl.com/2kgcyl http://tinyurl.com/37dgbj

For the recommended way to properly test a deep-cycle battery, see the link below.
http://tinyurl.com/77m5o

Tips on storage http://tinyurl.com/396cy6

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86548
Larry, I was checking the literature on the HPV 22B and see nothing about equalization. Am I correct to assume it does not have the equalization feature.

Jim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86550
On Nov 29, 2007, at 8:58 PM, Jim wrote:

Quote
Larry, I was checking the literature on the HPV 22B and see nothing about equalization. Am I correct to assume it does not have the equalization feature.
No. It is a solar controller only. It has two positions, dry camp and shore power. Dry camp is the same as the plain HPV-22, while shore power is a somewhat lower charge point, basically allowing another source of power (the AC converter) to prevail.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86551
"...I was checking the literature on the HPV 22B and see nothing about equalization. Am I correct to assume it does not have the equalization feature."

 Here is a quote directly from the '99 LD manual regarding the RV-30S controller:
 "Shortly after reaching 14.2V, the automatic equalization mode takes place. This feature pushes the battery to 14.7V for approximately 30 minutes. This mode is designed to help eliminate sulfation and prolong battery life. This feature is activated only once in a 24 hour period."

The HPV-22B is a newer controller.  It seems odd to remove such a useful feature.  Does anyone know the reason?

Andrew 1999 23.5' TK, SF Bay Area
Andrew
2008 Rear Bath
(previously 1999 TK)
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86554
"My question is if you have a solar panel(s) and store outside, why are you pulling the house batteries?"
 Exactly. Charged batteries don't freeze, and solar panels are perfect for keeping your batteries charged while your rig's not in use. If you're storing the rig outside where the panels can get even a little light (e.g., mild shade is fine), then taking out the batteries is completely unnecessary. Tell your husband to stop risking back strain! :-)

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Equalizing batteries
Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86559
"It seems odd to remove such a useful [equalization every 24 hours] feature. Does anyone know the reason?"

The real battery experts in the group can answer this better than I can... but from what I've read, equalizing daily is way too often, and could shorten the battery's lifespan. Most sources I've seen say that when a battery is in regular, heavy use (e.g., in a forklift), it should be equalized *weekly*. If it's less heavily used, equalization is even less often needed. (And of course gel and AGM batteries should NEVER be equalized.)

If you want the technical answer, Trojan's website says this:
 
Equalizing should be performed when a battery is first purchased (called a freshening charge) and on a regular basis as needed. How often this might occur with your battery will vary depending on your application. You will need to monitor your battery voltage and specific gravity to determine when equalization is needed.
 For example, it is time to equalize if the measured specific gravity values are below manufacturer's recommended values after charging (recommended value for Trojan Deep Cycle batteries is 1.277 +/- .007 at 80 degrees F). Equalizing is also required if the specific gravity value of any individual cell varies 30 points or more.

Reduced performance can also be an indicator that equalizing is necessary. Equalization should also be performed when individual battery voltages in a battery pack range greater than 0.15 volts for 6 volt batteries or 0.30 volts for 12 volt batteries.
So the reason the equalization feature was omitted may well have been that it was doing more harm than good.

Here's a question for the experts, though: does the stock Parallax converter equalize, and if so how often--or is it something you have to trigger manually? I don't know, because on both my rigs the stock converter was bypassed in favor of a high-powered three-stage inverter/charger.

Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: Equalizing batteries
Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86562
"...equalizing daily is way too often, and could shorten the battery's lifespan."

 Ah yes...too much of a good thing. Why not just program it to equalize every 240 hrs. (or whatever on average would be best) instead of every 24 hrs? I have no idea how these things work, so there's probably an obvious answer to this also.

Andrew 1999 23.5' TK, SF Bay Area
Andrew
2008 Rear Bath
(previously 1999 TK)
Re: A Propane Question and now a new question
Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86563
My husband sends a big thank you to everyone who has told him to keep the batteries right in the rv. He will be taking them out (and keeping them out) this week-end.

Thanks again.
Kathy
Re: A Propane Question and I should known better...
Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86574
Quote
Steve K.
If you re-read my posting you will see that I said; "If you are noticing that they do not have the same capacity, that
is a good indication that they are due for replacement."

Quote
Isn't that the pretty much the same thing you just posted? Like you, I do not spend money on needlessly but I do try to stay aware of aging components that do require periodic replacement.
Jeepers Larry, I should known better than to even think of disagreeing with the RV Guru;-)

I went back and reread your entire original post, all I can say is that I interpretted it this way:

I shoulda known better, I shoulda known better, I shoulda.....

Steve K. (how many times should I write it on the blackboard?)
Steve K

2003 Mid-bath
Re: A Propane Question and I should known better...
Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86578
Quote
  Steve K.
If you re-read my posting you will see that I said; "If you are noticing that they do not have the same capacity, that is a good indication that they are due for replacement."
Now that the dust has settled and one decides to replace those T-105's as I did yesterday will find that the price has somewhat escalated.
Three quotes in the San Jose area ranged from $122-$135 each.
Joe Hamm-San Jose
Re: A Propane Question and I should known better...
Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 86583
When I recently purchased Trojan 8-volt batteries for a golf cart, the distributor told me they've seen a 30% increase due to the price of lead. If you deal with a larger distributor, be sure to take the old batteries in or they may add a core charge.

bumper
bumper
"Yonder" '05 MB
"WLDBLU" glider trailer