Grand Canyon - advice? November 28, 2007, 02:41:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86454Dear Friends, We're planning our 2008 Wild West Summer Adventure and visiting the Grand Canyon mid-June.Mather Campground?: From research it sounds like Mather campground is the place to book on the South Rim.1. What site should I request for the best view? 2. It sounds like I can book on December 15th for June 15th night, right (6 months)? Do you think I can book the 16th too or do I have to wait another day?From: http://snipurl.com/1uc3s> Up to 6 Months (rolling window) in Advance for all agencies under the NRRS.5 Months (block window) for Yosemite National Park - Inventory goes on sale on the 15th of each Month>>It also sounds like "no shows" are charged a $20 service fee in addition to the night's lodging- not that I would no-show, but that's something to remember.Hiking the Canyon (Phantom Ranch): I attempted to book Phantom Ranch dormitory lodging in the bottom of the Canyon and told the kids to workout on the treadmill to prepare for the big hike (heehee), but it was sadly booked for all of June. Of course.Phantom Ranch can be booked a year or two in advance- something to consider if you're interested in the future. Advice I've read is to book for 2 nights so you have a "recover" day. And book the steak dinners and meals when you reserve.Here's the separate Xanterra website for some CG lodging, but you have to call them for Phantom Ranch lodging, and don't call on the 1st of the month: http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com>I guess we'll just hike some of the Bright Angel trail some: http://www.hitthetrail.com/>Mules:Lia is 4" too short for the mule ride down, which could get us a cabin at Phantom Ranch. I just don't know if stretching her would help. http://snipurl.com/1uc4c> for mule info.Danger:And no, I do not want to read in advance the book, "Death in the Grand Canyon" for things to avoid. We will already be tethered together when walking within 12' of the edge (kidding!)Rafting:Now, Roz, since you've had many years running river rafts, can I please get your good advice on who to book for a river trip. My kids are a bit scardy-cats after going over a (small) waterfall on a tubing trip in TX, and we don't have a lot of time (we must see ALL the West this summer), but we don't want to bake on a wafting trip from the Marble Canyon Dam/Page area. Advice? Anyone?Helicopter:Should we do this? Don't google it to see how many people have died. LD'ers are risk-takers! Can't decide.Grand Canyon West & Hoover Dam:I was going to skip for now the western canyon Skywalk because the $75 price per person, the 14 miles of bad roads (that I've heard they are going to improve), the feeling by many that it was a ripoff, the time needed for the bus ride on the bad roads, the fact that you cannot take your camera on the skywalk, etc.And the Hoover Dam is having a new road constructed that will not require the RV searches since 9/11 (the road completion was delayed when 2 highline cranes belew over in high winds). I hear the crossing to the Dam is very slow due to security (hours). Anyone taken it and know? Maybe we should just wait a few years on the improvements to routes and instead now go up to the GC North Rim. Does that sound sane?North Rim Grand Canyon:Is there a campground there you'd recommend? Like a specific site? And just think! That is just the Grand Canyon part of our trip! All advice welcome! Tessa in TX
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #1 – November 28, 2007, 03:43:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86457Quote Dear Friends, We're planning our 2008 Wild West Summer Adventure and visiting the Grand Canyon mid-June. Hi Tessa,QuoteMather Campground?: From research it sounds like Mather campground is the place to book on the South Rim.1. What site should I request for the best view? Sorry to tell you: there are no Ditch views from Mather Campground. If you must have hookups, however, you will have to book space at Xanterra's RV campground (which is a paved, ugly no-man's land).Quote 2. It sounds like I can book on December 15th for June 15th night, right (6 months)? Do you think I can book the 16th too or do I have to wait another day? I think you can book for your entire stay on December 15th, but please don't quote me on that. I would recommend you send an e-mail to the Park Service for that question.QuoteHiking the Canyon (Phantom Ranch): I attempted to book Phantom Ranch dormitory lodging in the bottom of the Canyon and told the kids to workout on the treadmill to prepare for the big hike (heehee), but it was sadly booked for all of June. Of course. Tessa, a workout on a treadmill will not be enough to prepare you and the kids for a hike down into the Canyon. Remember, it takes at least twice as long to hike up as it does to hike down. If you feel you and your family are in good enough shape, a hike down the Bright Angel Trail to Plateau Point would take you all day, but the view of the river will be wonderful. Going all the way down to the River in one day is brutal. I would suggest you watch the weather reports. June is my favorite month on the River. But, because it is less likely to rain at that time, it is VERY HOT! While that is great for a raft trip, it is not so terrific for hiking.Danger:Your biggest danger when hiking is not carrying enough water. Of course, if you are only going to hike the rim trails, that is not a problem.QuoteRafting:Now, Roz, since you've had many years running river rafts, can I please get your good advice on who to book for a river trip. My kids are a bit scardy-cats after going over a (small) waterfall on a tubing trip in TX, and we don't have a lot of time ... When it comes to rafting trips, the following are excellent: Arizona Raft Adventures (Azra), Arizona River Runners, Hatch River Expeditions and Grand Canyon Expeditions. They all have motorized trips on large rafts. With your children, I am sure you would feel much more confident on that type of journey. The trips are 7 to 8 days long. Some trips go all the way through the canyon to Lake Mead. Others helicopter their passengers out just below the last of the giant rapids (something that I know you would enjoy). By the way, do not wait too long to book your spaces. They fill up fairly quickly. There is more I can tell you. If you want to ask questions, please e-mail me off the forum.QuoteHelicopter:Should we do this? Don't google it to see how many people have died. LD'ers are risk-takers! Can't decide. See above. Personally, I would rather helicopters were used only for emergencies. It is a wonderous experience to fly on a chopper, but it is so intrusive ... don't get me started!QuoteGrand Canyon West & Hoover Dam: Grand Canyon West is run by the Hualapai people. The Ditch at that point is very arid and not nearly as colorful as it is upstream. However, if you take a raft trip that goes all the way to Lake Mead, you will see that area. It has a stark beauty all its own. Hoover Dam would be interesting for the kids. The security check may take a bit longer when you have an RV instead of a car.QuoteNorth Rim Grand Canyon: Seeing as the North Rim is not as crowded ... overwhelmed? ... as the South, there is only one campground. I do not remember whether there were any campsites with a view. I also seem to recall it is a first come first served campground. There are some NFS campground outside the park. In any case, sorry for going on so long about my very favorite place in the entire world. I hope this will have helped you and others on the forum.Happy travels.Roz, the W
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #2 – November 28, 2007, 05:38:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86462And if you go to the Hualapai section, don¹t forget the Grand Canyon Skywalk. It¹s only $81.20 http://www.grandcanyonskywalk.com/mainmenu.htmlQuoteGrand Canyon West is run by the Hualapai people. The Ditch at that point is very arid and not nearly as colorful as it is upstream.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #3 – November 28, 2007, 07:46:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86469Quote And if you go to the Hualapai section, don¹t forget the Grand Canyon Skywalk. It¹s only $81.20 http://www.grandcanyonskywalk.com/mainmenu.htmlGrand Canyon West is run by the Hualapai people. The Ditch at that point is very arid and not nearly as colorful as it is upstream.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Best spot to view Grand Canyon is Toroweap. The view east and west is unparalleled. The trip there is a challenge. From Flagstaff north on 89 then west on 399. Enter the Kaibab Indian Reservation and take the marked road south to Toroweap. This is a well graded dirt road and its about 40 miles as I recall. There is a Ranger Station there and a VERY unimproved camping area near the rim, but experiencing the canyon from here is worth it. Jimbo 1 Likes
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #4 – November 28, 2007, 10:06:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86476Quote Best spot to view Grand Canyon is Toroweap. The view east and west is unparalleled. The Quotetrip there is a challenge. From Flagstaff north on 89 then west on 399. Enter the Kaibab QuoteIndian Reservation and take the marked road south to Toroweap. This is a well graded dirt Quoteroad and its about 40 miles as I recall. There is a Ranger Station there and a VERY Quoteunimproved camping area near the rim, but experiencing the canyon from here is worth it.QuoteJimbo I agree with your opinion of Toroweap. I have never been there, but have heard about the road leading out there. I hesitated to recommend it with an LD only because of the fact that many people are unsure of driving on dirt roads. We are going out there one of these days! The other reason is that, personally, I would find it necessary to go look over the edge by crawling on my hands and knees. No railings! And it is 3000 feet straight down! Yoiks!Roz, the W
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #5 – November 29, 2007, 12:50:52 am Yahoo Message Number: 86485On Nov 28, 2007, at 23:05, Roz Jirge wrote:QuoteI agree with your opinion of Toroweap. I have never been there, but have heard about the road leading out there. I hesitated to recommend it with an LD only because of the fact that many people are unsure of driving on dirt roads. We are going out there one of these days! The other reason is that, personally, I would find it necessary to go look over the edge by crawling on my hands and knees. No railings! And it is 3000 feet straight down! Yoiks! The NPS at the nearby Pipe Spring National Monument kind of keeps tabs on Toroweap (a.k.a Tuweep). Call them for current conditions. When we were there last year it had rained during the prior week and they advised against any vehicle attempting it. the road had washed out in several places. Even in normal condtions they told me it should not be attempted without 4WD and high clearance, nor by any vehicles longer than 20 feet (impossible to make many of the turns near the Canyon). We were highly disappointed, but we heeded the NPS warnings.For more info and pix, try this link... http://www.americansouthwest.net/arizona/grand_canyon/tuweep.html-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #6 – November 29, 2007, 09:56:06 am Yahoo Message Number: 86499QuoteMather Campground?: From research it sounds like Mather campground is the place to book on the South Rim. Mather Campground is nice....we stayed there the last time we were at the Grand Canyon. And, it's the only campground in the park that accepts the Golden Age Passport/Senior Pass and the Golden Access Passport/Access Pass. As Roz said, you do not have a view of the Canyon from either of the campgrounds in the park, but it's not all that far a walk, and there is a shuttle system within the park. Sorry, I have no information about making reservations since we didn't make any when we were there (but we were there the middle of April and there were lots of spaces open. June will be another matter.QuoteHiking the Canyon (Phantom Ranch): If you take Roz's advice and hike down to Plateau Point, also heed her advice about taking plenty of water -- at a minimum, ONE GALLON PER PERSON. I can't tell you how many people have to be rescued from the Canyon every year because they didn't bring enough (or, in some cases, any) water with them and they get dehydrated.QuoteI hear the crossing to the Dam is very slow due to security (hours). Anyone taken it and know? We made the crossing a couple of years ago and only had to stop a mile or two before the dam to be inspected...took less than 5 minutes. The traffic across the dam wasn't bad, but, again, we were there early in the year.QuoteNorth Rim Grand Canyon: As Roz said, there is only one campground on the North Rim. We've never been there, but I imagine it's like the campground on the South Rim: not close enough to the Canyon for a view. Maybe someone who has actually stayed there can give more details. According to this website -- http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cg-nr.htm -- you can make reservations at the North Rim Campground, although it also says it's possible to check at the campground for the "slight" chance of an available space. This same website also lists the areas outside of the Park where there is camping.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #7 – November 29, 2007, 11:38:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 86513If you don't need or want hook-ups Mather Campground is the best campground on the South Rim. But if you want need hook-ups as mentioned Trailer Village is much like a parking lot, but is in the middle of everything and while at the GC you probably will not spend much time at the campsite anyway! From either campground you can hop on the shuttle and go to many of the places on the South Rim. Twice I have taken the Shuttle to Hermit's rest and then walked the Rim trail back to the campgrounds. I believe I have read the scenery is better doing it the other way, but I think Hermit's rest is slightly higher than Mather point and I much prefer down hill (but it's not much of a hill, so I might try the other way next time)! This is about a 10 mile hike if you do the whole thing, but easy with fantastic views and not crowded except right around the shuttle stops. Also if you get tired, just take the shuttle back. If anyone is into rocks and fossils, I would suggest the ranger lead geology trip. It's only an hour or so and you get to see fossils that most other people just pass by.Have a great time. I plan on including the Grand Canyon in 2009, which is when I will start full-timing!Pam
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #8 – November 29, 2007, 03:03:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86531For some great Canyon pics, I can recommend you check out the website of a co-worker of mine here at Intel. I think his Canyon pics may give you a good feel for the terrain you will encounter. http://www.johnmirandaphoto.com/index.htmlRegards, Adam
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #9 – November 29, 2007, 03:37:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86534INCREDIBLE photography!Is that "ridge" the actual trail?? hmmmm. . .Thanks all for the terrific GC info!I'm saving it all, Tessa
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #10 – November 29, 2007, 07:18:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86545We lived in the village at the south rim for 4 years and I still have nightmares about the place. I could see the canyon from our kitchen window. The local doctor was a friend of ours and he spent 2 years trying to get Park Service to warn visitors about the strain on your heart at 7200 feet. I think an average of seven people a year fell in and died, some on mules, but the biggest danger is heart attack. None of it was ever made public. The reasoning was they didn't want to alarm the visitors. If you want to test your endurance, walk down the Bright Angel Trail just beyond the tunnel, turn around and see how it feels to walk about 100 feet back up.Another problem that you don't hear about - dogs falling in. People feed the chipmunks along the rim and dogs love to chase them. The concession they finally made to warn people about heart attacks? A small sign before you enter the park - Warning, you are at 7200 feet. That's about as helpful as t--s on a bull. That might have changed by now.Our house was directly under the flight path to the clinic and the helicopters flew over us with the body bags hanging under them. It's hard to enjoy the beauty of the canyon after seeing that. On a more positive note, if you walk along the trail to Hermit's Rest the Condors may fly right over you. Fly LOW over you ;-). It's an amazing sight.Karen - hoping I haven't angered anyone by my negative post.
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #11 – November 29, 2007, 09:30:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86552I'd rather have the cold truth than the warm and fuzzy stuff...Tina P "Wild Thing" 2006 26.5 MB - Sunning in FL; not missing Maine in Nov-Dec Karen oldjerseylady@...> wrote:...hoping I haven't angered anyone by my negative post.p-mkp{ border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 14px 0px; padding: 0px 14px; } #ygrp-mkp hr{ border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: bold; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0px; } #ygrp-mkp #ads{ margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad{ padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } -->Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #12 – November 29, 2007, 09:52:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86553I completely agree!! Thanks for the honesty. Tessa
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #13 – November 29, 2007, 10:17:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86557There speaks the voice of experience. Thanks for posting that, Karen! The Grand Canyon is a wonderful place, and I'd hate to see anybody miss it... but please BE SAFE when you go there.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #14 – November 30, 2007, 07:15:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 86566I'm not sure I'd agree that there's a gigantic Gummint conspiracy ;-) to hide the dangers of the National Parks, and as a career senior lawyer (now retired) with the Justice Dept whose colleagues defended the MANY suits brought by the survivors of some of these folks against the Park Service, I can assure you that plenty of these tragic losses were "public"
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #15 – November 30, 2007, 08:30:21 am Yahoo Message Number: 86568Quote "I think an average of seven people a year fell in and died, some on mules...", KarenI don't believe anyone has ever died (due to mule malfunction) on a Grand Canyon-sanctioned mule ride in the Grand Canyon. If anyone has info to the contrary, please post.Chris
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #16 – November 30, 2007, 09:11:56 am Yahoo Message Number: 86571Quote from: Chris Horst" 'I don't believe anyone has ever died (due to mule malfunction) on a Grand Canyon-sanctioned mule ride in the Grand Canyon. If anyone has info to the contrary, please post."Chris, The mule wranglers warn you to let the mules "guide themselves". A woman tried to "control" her mule and got bucked off. She had never ridden a horse or mule before and panicked. The mule was fine but not the woman. I never saw anything written about it. Pack mules did lose their footing and fall over the side. I don't know what they do now but they used to cover them with lye and leave them where they fell.Karen
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #17 – November 30, 2007, 09:30:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 86572Quote from: Gary W. Allen" "I'm not sure I'd agree that there's a gigantic Gummint conspiracy ;-)"Nah! Not a conspiracy, just a concerted effort to keep the public happy ;-) "and having > been at GC, Yellowstone and the Tetons within the last four months, I > can testify that the placards and signs and pamphlets are Out There). " But did they warn you about how many people have heart attacks at the canyon? I know they have warnings about staying away from the edge of the hole. An example of stupidity - They had a hill on the road to Hermit's Rest known as suicide hill to the locals. The "kids" who worked for the concessions used to go tubing there in the snow. They had a small window of safety at the bottom. You can guess the rest.Karen - who now prefers to swim with the sharks in the ocean! P.S. If we let you adopt Ladybug for a few months will you take care of her as well as you did your foster LD ? ? ? ?
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #18 – November 30, 2007, 10:07:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 86579QuoteAnother problem that you don't hear about - dogs falling in. People feed the chipmunks along the rim and dogs love to chase them. I wonder why 1) these dogs were there in the first place, and 2) why, since they were there, they weren't on a leash? Don't get me wrong...I love dogs (we have one)...but I wouldn't consider taking my dog with us when we went to site see someplace. And if I did, he'd certainly be on a leash...with one of us at the other end!Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #19 – November 30, 2007, 03:48:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86593With regard to all of the disasters that can happen at Grand Canyon or, for that matter, any of the national parks, simple common sense is all that is called for. Don't try to do more than you know you are physically capable of. Millions of people visit the parks every year and very few meet with tragic accidents. Those that occur usually happen because of a lack of respect for the environment: people trying to climb Yosemite's cliffs without training; those hiking Grand Canyon's maintained and non-maintained trails without realizing the strenuous nature of having to climb 4000 feet or more when they are hot, tired and hurting from the steep hike down; people getting too excited to watch their steps around the geysers and hot springs of Yellowstone. One could go on and on. The main thing is to go and have a great time. Use your head if you are going to do some strenuous activities, check with the park's rangers, don't get too close to the wild animals (above all - do not feed them!) and admire the beauty of nature.Have fun and happy travels.Roz, the W
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #20 – November 30, 2007, 05:13:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86595QuoteNorth Rim Grand Canyon:As Roz said, there is only one campground on the North Rim. We've never been there, but I imagine it's like the campground on the South Rim: not Quoteclose enough to the Canyon for a view. Maybe someone who has actually stayed there can give more details. THAT'S RIGHT. YOU WALK TO THE VIEW, JUST LIKE SOUTH RIM.According to this website -- Quotehttp://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/cg-nr.htm -- you can make reservations at the North Rim Campground, although it also says it's possible to check at Quotethe campground for the "slight" chance of an available space. AS WE FOUND OUT, TO OUR DISMAY, THE NORTH RIM CAMPGROUND IS NOW ALL RESERVATION, NO "WALKUPS." WE GOT THERE AT 7:00 A.M. FOR A SAME-DAY ATTEMPT, AND THE RANGER TOLD US THE POLICY HAD CHANGED JUST THIS YEAR. HOWEVER, THERE IS A NATIONAL FOREST JUST OUTSIDE THE PARK BOUNDARY, AND THERE IS UNLIMITED BOONDOCKING. THAT'S WHAT WE DID, AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE THE BEST CAMPING OF OUR TRIP. YOU DO HAVE TO DRIVE BACK INTO THE PARK, THOUGH, TO GET TO THE RIM, AND IT'S MORE THAN A FEW MILES. WE'VE BEEN TO BOTH NORTH AND SOUTH RIMS, AND OUR EXPERIENCE WAS THAT THE SOUTH RIM HAD BY FAR THE BETTER VIEW OF THE ACTUAL CANYON AND RIVER. THE NORTH RIM (AT LEAST IN THE LODGE/CAMPGROUND AREA) LOOKS BASICALLY AT A BRANCH CANYON THAT COMES UP FROM THE MAIN DITCH. YOU CAN SEE THE SOUTH RIM, BUT YOU CAN'T SEE DOWN INTO THE ACTUAL DITCH UNLESS YOU DRIVE TO MORE REMOTE VIEWING POINTS, AND THEN YOU SEE ONLY A FRACTION OF THE BIG SHOW. IF YOU WANT THE IMPACT, GO TO THE SOUTH RIM. THE DRAWBACK IS THAT'S WHERE ALL THE CROWDS ARE. THE NORTH RIM IS RELATIVELY LIGHT ON PEOPLE. -- JON & LONIThis same Quotewebsite also lists the areas outside of the Park where there is camping.Quote Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Grand Canyon - advice?/ Thinning the Herd Reply #21 – November 30, 2007, 06:34:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86597Quote With regard to all of the disasters that can happen at Grand Canyon or, for that matter, any of the national parks, simple common sense is all that is called for. Don't try to do more than you know you are physically capable of. Millions of people visit the parks every year and very few meet with tragic accidents. Those that occur usually happen because of a lack of respect for the environment: people trying to climb Yosemite's cliffs without training; those hiking Grand Canyon's maintained and non-maintained trails without realizing the strenuous nature of having to climb 4000 feet or more when they are hot, tired and hurting from the steep hike down; people getting too excited to watch their steps around the geysers and hot springs of Yellowstone. One could go on and on. snip> Have fun and happy travels.Quote Roz, the W I tend to think of many of these incidents as natures way of "Just say No" or natural selection. I have seen so many times folks going behind the chains/signs that say "Danger, do not go behind the sign" to get better pictures, just dangle over the edge, etc. I saw a young man climbing at the top of upper Silver Falls in Oregon this summer. Fortunately his girlfried stayed on the trail with us. I have seen people ignoring the signs at the top of Halfdome in Yosemite, seen a women leaving the top going down towards Phantom Ranch in shoes with fairly high heels as we were returning from same at about 2 pm.(Well after the recommended departure time going down) FWIW: Jack in Reno
Re: Grand Canyon - advice? Reply #22 – November 30, 2007, 08:42:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86611Quote "As Roz said, there is only one campground on the North Rim. We've never been there... "QuoteLinda Hylton Canyon Peepers,In following this thread I've yet to see mention of "Desert View".On my way home from the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta this October I came west by way of Navaho Country, approaching the Grand Canyon from the east. The first area inside the park from that direction is Desert View. By this time I had already passed Little Grand Canyon and had passed up several roadside turnouts where I could have spent the night. But, even though it was late in the afternoon I continued on. I was quite surprised to find many open sites at the Desert View Campground. A large number of the sites are pull-throughs parallel with the road and I had no trouble fitting my 30'IB and my Honda toad in even though the park service said "Nothing over 30'"I don't know how much use this CG gets at other times of the year but I found it to be quite accessible when I was there. And the 25 mile drive from there to GC Village is loaded with many turn outs, conveniently on the right (north) or canyon side of the road. I had such good photo ops that I didn't even try to deal with that zoo at the village.Steve S. Lazy Bones & Jiggs
Re: Grand Canyon - advice?/ Thinning the Herd Reply #23 – November 30, 2007, 11:01:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86615You know, this is one of the things I really love about Mexico. You won't find all of those nanny signs and repetitive warnings here, maybe there will be one warning sign. If you are so stupid that you do some of these things then you get what you deserve. Evolution needs our cooperation and letting the idiots die is one way to help. Now, if only they would do this stuff before they breed.-- Jonna in Tortuga, 2001 Teal RB 'Tortuga' Find us MAPhttp://map.datastormusers.com/user2.cfm?user=1013> Follow the BLOG herehttp://www.baddog.com/blog/blog.html>I tend to think of many of these incidents as natures way of "Just Quotesay No" or natural selection. I have seen so many times folks going behind the chains/signs that say "Danger, do not go behind the sign" to get better pictures, just dangle over the edge, etc. I saw a young man climbing at the top of upper Silver Falls in Oregon this summer. Fortunately his girlfried stayed on the trail with us. I have seen people ignoring the signs at the top of Halfdome in Yosemite, seen a women leaving the top going down towards Phantom Ranch in shoes with fairly high heels as we were returning from same at about 2 pm.(Well after the recommended departure time going down) FWIW: Jack in Reno [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Grand Canyon Reply #24 – November 29, 2007, 12:43:47 pm Yahoo Message Number: 86518Tessa: Whatever you end up doing at the Grand Canyon, please spend some time with the kids on safety...there are many wonderful spots to overlook the Canyon and lots and lots of them do NOT have guardrails or barriers to keep the overly enthusiastic from going over the edge. As a matter of fact I am still amazed by some of the spots we were at in terms of their openness.....Some of the overlooks get crowded, especially just after a shuttle drops its passengers. While the GC doesn't really advertise it, they lose an astonishing number of visitors to the edge. The day we were there this past Spring a man had gone over the edge...and he was coming back up just the way the rest have...in a black bag. Do take the tour of the Hoover Dam...well worth the time & $$; read my notes from that trip in the LD archives...we did a lot in that area and enjoyed it all...notwithstanding the fact that our little group of 4 is on the golden side of 55.Tina P 2006 26.5 MB --- full-timing it Oct 07 - May 08
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