Heaters November 05, 2007, 04:18:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85567Hi from the Natchez Trace; Weather is really nice down here in Mississippi but the evenings have been cool and using the furnace is draining my batteries. The 3 free campgrounds are nice but heavily treed so I am not getting much solar juice. I would like to add a catalytic heater but wish to ask if RV models sold at Camping World, etc are the only way to go. Would units for homes sold in Lowes, Home Depot, or Farm stores be just as good as long as they have similar safety controls? Lastly, I have an 06 RK and wonder if any RK owners have added such heaters? The only location that seems possible to me is at the rear wall between the dinette seat and the undersink compartment. There should be a propane tap near there going to the stove. Any advice? Earlier today (Sunday, Nov 4) another LD passed me going north on the Trace. Anyone here? That is the first LD I have seen since leaving Nova Scotia on Oct 1. Happy travels,Mike Lewis
Re: Heaters Reply #1 – November 05, 2007, 05:18:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85576Quotewonder if any RK owners have added such heaters? We have a cat heater in our 2000 RK, installed on the left side of the entry. I removed the drawers under the closet to put blocking behind the plywood panel, and tapped into the refrigerator's gas supply, which is accessible in the top right side of the cabinet beneath the fridge.I does a good job of keeping the front seating area warm but, of course, does little for the rear of the coach. But we're usually lounging in front. If we're in back, we're probably eating, which means some heat from cooking or, if that's not enough, turning up the furnace.Hope this helps /noel/
Re: Heaters Reply #2 – November 05, 2007, 05:27:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85578"I would like to add a catalytic heater but wish to ask if RV models sold at Camping World, etc are the only way to go. Would units for homes sold in Lowes, Home Depot, or Farm stores be just as good as long as they have similar safety controls?" Without knowing what specific brands and models you're talking about, it's impossible to say for certain, but I'd be very wary. To my knowledge, the only catalytic heaters that are safe to use in RVs are made by Olympian, and I've never seen that brand sold in the stores you mentioned. What you see in places like that are NON-catalytic space heaters, which are dangerous (potentially lethal) to use in a small enclosed space like an RV. Oh, you will occasionally find a portable cat heater (Coleman makes a few models) aimed at tent campers, but they're too small to be of much use in an RV, and anyway they're designed to run on bottled gas rather than a connection to an RV's propane system.Bottom line: stick with Olympian if you want to be safe.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Heaters Reply #3 – November 05, 2007, 05:36:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85581To my Quoteknowledge, the only catalytic heaters that are safe to use in RVs are made by Olympian, ... What you see in places like that are NON-catalytic space heaters, which are dangerous (potentially lethal) to use in a small enclosed space like an RV. Olympian may be the only *catalytic* heater approved for RV use, but they're not the only propane heater approved for RV use. We have a Kozy-World infrared heater in our rig that we use a lot when the weather gets colder. It's approved for RV use...was, in fact, bought at an RV service center. Like catalytic heaters, one must keep a couple of windows cracked to provide fresh air. We usually open one window downstairs about 1" and the vent in the bedroom about the same amount. We NEVER sleep with it on or leave it on when we leave the rig.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/
Re: Heaters Reply #4 – November 05, 2007, 07:31:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85590"Bottom line: stick with Olympian if you want to be safe"Olympian Cat heaters are the way to go if you spend a lot of time camping cold weather without electrical hookups. We have a pair of them in our LD, one permanently mounted in the bath and the other on a 5' hose in the front lounge. The two of them will keep things cozy in single digit weather. If power is available, electric heaters are an even better way of warming your LD.http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104740401/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602095131438/>Larry
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #5 – November 05, 2007, 07:35:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85591Quote To my knowledge, the only catalytic heaters that are safe to use in RVs are made by Olympian, ... What you see in places like that are NON-catalytic Quotespace heaters, which are dangerous (potentially lethal) to use in a small enclosed space like an RV. Olympian may be the only *catalytic* heater approved for RV use, but they'reQuotenot the only propane heater approved for RV use.We have a Kozy-World infrared heater in our rig that we use a lot when the Quoteweather gets colder. It's approved for RV use...was, in fact, bought at an QuoteRV service center. Like catalytic heaters, one must keep a couple of windows cracked to provide fresh air. We usually open one window downstairs about 1" and the vent in the bedroom about the same amount. We NEVER sleepQuotewith it on or leave it on when we leave the rig.Linda Hylton http://map.datastormusers.com/user1.cfm?user=1167 http://earl-linda.blogspot.com/ I have a MB with the Wave 3 installed below the oven. My CO detector usually goes off no matter what windows and vent I leave open after about an hour or so. What ventilation do other people with this setup use? It seems to be a fine line between not letting heat out and being safe. Anybody else have this problem? I suppose it could also be an oversensitive detector; it probably is original so it could be 8 years old and I know they do have a lifetime limit.David Forness 2000 MB
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #6 – November 05, 2007, 10:04:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85596Dave: I just replaced the battery
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #7 – November 05, 2007, 10:33:14 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85599"Olympian may be the only *catalytic* heater approved for RV use, but they're not the only propane heater approved for RV use. We have a Kozy-World infrared heater in our rig that we use a lot when the weather gets colder. It's approved for RV use... was, in fact, bought at an RV service center."I have to disagree on this point, Linda. The Kozy-World and similar ceramic block heaters operate very differently from catalytic heaters, and I don't feel they are safe for use in RVs. I know that some RV places install them, but that doesn't make them a good idea. A properly operated Olympian cat heater runs at a moderate temperature (about 450 degrees F, as I recall) and emits no carbon monoxide unless subjected to extreme oxygen starvation. By contrast, a properly operated Kozy World or similar ceramic-block heater uses open flames at well over a thousand degrees, and pumps out carbon monoxide *all the time*--that's its normal operating mode.In a small, enclosed space like an RV, that just isn't a good idea.Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #8 – November 06, 2007, 01:00:16 am Yahoo Message Number: 85605*IF* I were going to add a catalytic heater to our LD, I would want to use a vented catalytic heater rather than the unvented type. http://www.ventedcatheater.com/Even though the vented cats do use a small amount of 12V power, they have been used successfully in boondocking situations for years, and add a measure of safety that would be important to me. YMMV.Sharon N.
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #9 – November 06, 2007, 10:05:35 am Yahoo Message Number: 85612"Even though the vented cats do use a small amount of 12V power, they have been used successfully in boondocking situations for years, and add a measure of safety that would be important to me. YMMV."Sharon I looked at these heater many years ago and gave up on finding a place for one. In most or all floorplan, the wall space is not available for mounting the heater and it's thru-wall vent pipe. Too bad they do no make a ceiling mount unit.Larry
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #10 – November 06, 2007, 11:51:11 am Yahoo Message Number: 85627Quote*IF* I were going to add a catalytic heater to our LD, I would want to use a vented catalytic heater rather than the unvented type. The vented cat heater is not safe. In other words, if you install one instead of an un-vented model because you want absolute safety, most likely you have traded the added measure of safety for an equal measure of added complacence, which can be just as dangerous. The combustion process for a vented cat heater still takes place in the interior of your RV living space. Though unlikely, things can go wrong with the air exchange process which defeat the safeguards, and if your alertness to this issue has receded further into the background, you are at risk.If you want safer - stick with the built-in furnace with its heat exchanger. But, don't forget: a combination of an open window in the exhaust path with a disadvantageous air current can waft the CO laden fumes inside... Extremely unlikely; but is the possibility on your mind? Our cat heater has no safeguards other than tip-over protection. An O2 sensor would defeat its use at altitude - just where we most need the heat. Our awareness of the need for adequate ventilation is powerful and constant, and that is the safety tool that is most effective.Steve
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #11 – November 06, 2007, 11:05:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85638Quote "Even though the vented cats do use a small amount of 12V power, they have been used successfully in boondocking situations for years, and add a measure of safety that would be important to me. YMMV."Sharon I looked at these heater many years ago and gave up on finding a place for one. In most or all floorplan, the wall space is not available for mounting the heater and it's thru-wall vent pipe. Too bad they do no make a ceiling mount unit.Larry Larry, I don't know if this would work in most of the LD floorplans, but check out this RVer's vented cat heater installations: http://rvtravel.com/blog/rvnow/2007/02/catalytic-heater.htmlSharon N.
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #12 – November 06, 2007, 11:29:27 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85641Quote *IF* I were going to add a catalytic heater to our LD, I would want toQuoteuse a vented catalytic heater rather than the unvented type.The vented cat heater is not safe. In other words, if you install one instead of an un-vented model because you want absolute safety, most likely you have traded the added measure of safety for an equal measure of added complacence, which can be just as dangerous. The combustion process for a vented cat heater still takes place in the interior of your RV living space. Though unlikely, things can go wrong with the air exchange process which defeat the safeguards, and if your alertness to this issue has receded further into the background, you are at risk.If you want safer - stick with the built-in furnace with its heat exchanger. But, don't forget: a combination of an open window in the exhaust path with a disadvantageous air current can waft the CO laden fumes inside... Extremely unlikely; but is the possibility on your mind?Quote Our cat heater has no safeguards other than tip-over protection. An O2 sensor would defeat its use at altitude - just where we most need the heat. Our awareness of the need for adequate ventilation is powerful and constant, and that is the safety tool that is most effective.Steve I respectfully disagree with your statement that the vented cat heater is not safe. Please go to the following web site: http://www.ventedcatheater.com/6.htmlRead the paragraph that's labeled "Electronic Fail-Safe Operation".Bottom line, the vented cats offer several safety features…the gas valve shuts off automatically if the exhaust flue becomes blocked, when the gas flow is interrupted, when electricity is interrupted, or when the heater is used in a hermetically-sealed room preventing proper venting.Of course, everyone should be aware of adequate ventilation when using any type of heat-producing appliance, for condensation control, as well as safe air quality. Even when we're plugged in to outside power and are using our electric Pelonis Disk Furnace V, we always leave a vent open at least an inch.Sharon N.
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #13 – November 06, 2007, 11:41:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 85642"I don't know if this would work in most of the LD floorplans, but check out this RVer's vented cat heater installations: http://rvtravel.com/blog/rvnow/2007/02/catalytic-heater.html>"SharonThanks for the information. This heater appears to be the same unit that was sold many years ago before the original company went out of business. A friend had one in his VW camper and it did a super job of heating the small interior, which was good since the VW had a canvas top that let in a lot of cold. The power vent does use some battery power but the venting eliminates the moisture buildup problem that unvented cat heaters suffer from. This heater, like the Olympian heater, requires that a window or roof vent is open a little to provide the oxygen necessary for combustion so a small amount of cold, outside air will still enter.It's good to have choices. The flexible vent hose expands the potential mounting locations.Larry
Re: Heaters - Cat Wave 3 and ventilation Reply #14 – November 07, 2007, 01:08:10 am Yahoo Message Number: 85645QuoteI respectfully disagree with your statement that the vented cat heater is not safe. Please go to the following web site: Sharon, you're proving my point - to assume the 'fail-safe' features truly eliminate potential safety hazards is precisely where complacency enters the picture. Any of these heaters can be safely operated if one knows their limitations; and any are unsafe if one ignores them. The forced-air furnace is by far the safest alternative, but people have died because of failure of the heat exchanger and the absence of a properly functioning CO detector. As far as the vented cat, the combustion is open - the built-in vent for intake and exhaust does NOT substitute for a heat exchanger. How could it fail? Probably in ways I can't even guess, but one could be a mud daubers' nest plugging the exhaust and blocking the sail switch from dropping. Is the design of this heater safer than an unvented cat? Yes. However, its operation is unsafe if you install and operate it under the assumption you no longer need worry about an accident.Steve
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