Improving cell phone coverage September 24, 2005, 01:55:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58350Hi all,Some time back, I posted that Wilson (the same folks who make the popular Wilson Trucker antenna), were coming out with a wireless cellular amp/repeater. Previously, they only had direct connect amplifiers that had to be plugged into the phone. Also, some have had good results with using their Trucker Antenna hooked directly to the phone using an adapter. A good outside antenna, such as this, will provide a far better signal than the phone's itty-bitty antenna.Both these methods of direct connect work well enough. The direct connect amp gives the advantage of more power output, up to 3 watts as compared to the .6 watts a typical cell phone can transmit. It also has a more sensitive receiver, so it allows communication with a cell site as much as 50 miles or more away, far better than a handset alone. Still, both direct connect methods are not all that convenient. Thus I was anxious to try the Wilson Wireless amp/repeater.The Wireless Cellular Amplifier Repeater (WCAR) uses an outside antenna, bi-directional amplifier, and an inside antenna too. The outside antenna receives the incoming signal, amplifies it, and then re-transmits with low power from the inside antenna to your phone. Your phone thinks the "cell site" is close indeed, so it conserves it's battery power and talks back to the inside antenna using low power. The WCAR then amplifies this and re-transmits it to the cell site using as much power as is needed, up to a maximum of 3 watts. The cellular carrier treats the WCAR just as if it is a cell phone - - it's basically transparent to the system.Now there are some design and installation considerations with a WCAR. Since the WCAR is receiving the low power phone signal from the phone, and re-transmitting it with no delay, and using the same frequency, there has to be adequate physical separation between the inside and outside antennas. Otherwise there would be "oscillation" or interference between the two. This separation can be provided by distance in feet, and also by an adequate RF (radio frequency) barrier between the two. The LD's aluminum skin is excellent for this, and in fact, reduces the need for as much physical separation as the WCAR installation instructions suggest.WCAR's typically allow multiple cell phones to be used at one time and can be had in dual band models that work with all US carriers except Nextel & iDen. In very marginal and weak cell phone areas, a direct connect amplifier, with outside antenna, will work about 10 to 15% better than a WCAR.For much more info, see Digital Antennas FAQ at http://www.digitalantenna.com/faq.html#selectampReview:The Wilson Wireless Amp didn't do so well. In fact, I returned it due to what I consider an almost fatal flaw. The phone has to be within a foot of the inside antenna instead of the 5' distance that was originally advertised. For use in a motor home, even 5' is minimal. Much better if you can wander around a bit.I then purchased a Digital Antenna "PowerMax" DA4KMR-30U, dual-band WCAR. This system comes with an outside antenna, 30' of coax with connectors, both 12 volt DC and 120 AC power supplier, and an inside antenna too. Everything you'll need for installation for a list price of $559.95 (I found this available on line for only $316 from Northeast Marine Electronics. Plus their service was quick with reasonable shipping. http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp? PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2214I also purchased the more powerful DA4kSBR-50U for use in my 72' X 60' metal airplane hangar/shop. The cell phone signal went from - 98db (dismal & with dropped calls) to -68 (just excellent with all the bars lit up) throughout the hangar.I have not yet done outside tests with the LD installation, only inside the hangar tests with the external antenna temporarily placed on the LD roof (but all within the building), and also with the WCAR external antenna placed outside the building. In the first case, the cell phone was usable, in the second, the coverage was excellent.I'll provide more info later when I finish installation and real world testing.All the best,Bumper "Yonder" Minden, NV
Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #1 – September 24, 2005, 09:46:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58367Part 2On the 26 MB, I mounted the external cell antenna on the pax side, just above the awning and in line with the porch light. Even though the right side is more susceptable to bonking things, I chose this location as I can reach up from the step, and lower the antenna, as I used a modified Shakespear SS marine mounting bracket. The included antenna comes with a right angle mounting bracket and will mount on the ladder/rack. This location also makes it easy to run the coaxial cable concealed inside the cabinets going forward.The inside antenna is mounted on the pax side partition, just forward of the dinette. In a relatively weak signal area, -90 db, I was seeing 30 db of gain with an excellent signal in the front have of the coach (-60 db). In the rear lounge, the signal was still strong, in the low 70's.Since both the external antenna and the inside antenna are mounted on the right side of the coach, there was some concern that the radiated signal from the external antenna might reflect of passing trucks etc and cause feedback to the inside antenna. I tested for this by parking the LD right side to a metal building at varying distances. No problem at all.Works nicely, no need to hook up wires to the phone, and I can use my phone to get on-line while the wife makes a call on hers.all the best,bumper
Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #2 – September 26, 2005, 11:25:23 am Yahoo Message Number: 58396Quote from: bumpersoar" Hi Bumper,I'm always interested in reading your messages on various subjects. Many new cell phones have a dual band capability, but the Wilson repeater only supports one of them. The Digital Antenna repeater supports both bands and would be the better choice for that reason alone.I purchased the Digital Antenna DA4KMR-10A repeater last spring before taking delivery of our new 26.5 MB in June. I have yet to install the device since we're having too much fun simply traveling about our home area and haven't had the time. So I'm really happy to see your report and the good results you're enjoying. The difference between your model and mine appears to be the antenna suite. If I were doing it again, I'd probably get the -30U model you purchased. I'm planning to purchase a different outside antenna and mount it on the roof rack as far back as possible. I'll then run the antenna cable through the same access point used by the satellite dish and then forward into the kitchen area next to the power pannel under the sink. The inside antenna will be mounted below the stove. Hopefully, that will give enough antenna separation. One question: What size outside antenna would you recommend? Digital Antenna has a 2.5 foot, a 4 foot and an 8 foot antenna. The 8 foot is out of the question. I'm inclined toward the 2.5 foot but wonder if the 4 foot would give significantly better results.A second question on another subject: I've followed your advice and example and purchased a Vortech GPS Antenna Repeater (yet to be installed - it's going to be a busy winter). It's not entirely clear where you mounted the inside repeater. If I read your description correctly, it's mounted on the bulkhead above the bunk on the left side, placing it above the Garmen unit. That makes sense, since the Garmen is looking for a signal coming from above. However, it's not, strictly speaking, line-of-sight because of the bunk. If it were mounted below the bunk, in plain veiw of the Garmen unit, the signal would be coming at right angles to the front of the unit, which may not be very effective. I'll play with it, as you did, but I'm interested in knowing exactly where you mounted the unit and how well it's working in the real world.Best regards, Ron Wiese
Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #3 – September 26, 2005, 01:28:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58402Quote from: bumpersoar" Good questions. I'll answer between the lines below . . .Quote Hi Bumper,I'm always interested in reading your messages on various subjects. QuoteMany new cell phones have a dual band capability, but the Wilson repeater only supports one of them. The Digital Antenna repeater supports both bands and would be the better choice for that reason alone. Wilson's newest repeater is dual band, so will handle tri-mode cellular phones. However, as mentioned previously, the inside range is nothing short of dismal. Might as well buy one of their direct connect amps for less money *and* this unit doesn't include an outside antenna.Quote I purchased the Digital Antenna DA4KMR-10A repeater last spring before taking delivery of our new 26.5 MB in June. I have yet to install the device since we're having too much fun simply traveling about our home area and haven't had the time. So I'm really happy to see your report and the good results you're enjoying. The difference between your model and mine appears to be the antenna suite. If I were doing it again, I'd probably get the -30U model you purchased.If you haven't installed the -10A, I'd sure try to exchange it for the 30. The RF (radio frequency) isolation afforded by the LD's aluminum covering makes the 30 easily doable. My antennas are only about 10 feet apart (one over the porch light on my MB and one on the partition forward of the dinette - near the PAX seat). The advantage of the 30 is that, in most conditions, you'll be able to use your cell phone anywhere in the coach. Since the 10 is really designed for cars and smaller vehicles, inside range will be limited. On the plus side, with the 10 you'll be able to mount your outside antenna even right above the inside one - - with the aluminum roof between, of course. Keep in mind with any of these that you'll need to mount the inside antenna at least 1.5 feet away from the amp itself.QuoteI'm planning to purchase a different outside antenna and mount it on the roof rack as far back as possible. I'll then run the antenna cable through the same access point used by the satellite dish and then forward into the kitchen area next to the power pannel under the sink. The inside antenna will be mounted below the stove. Hopefully, that will give enough antenna separation. Digital Antenna says that the use of *any* other brand of antenna may damage their amp, can be detected, and voids the warrantee. This, of course, is hogwash (assuming a good quality antenna and proper coax/connections etc). In fact, my testing found that the Wilson Trucker antenna performs better than the DA 2.5 foot antenna that is included with the DA amp/repeater. The advantage of the DA 2.5 antenna is that is a "cleaner" install and is not as high as the Wilson, thus preserving more clearance. In fact, the DA 2.5 could be mounted on the the LD, as high as possible, but so that the top of the antenna doesn't extend much higher than the AC, keeping in mind that higher is better.Quote One question: What size outside antenna would you recommend? Digital Antenna has a 2.5 foot, a 4 foot and an 8 foot antenna. The 8 foot is out of the question. I'm inclined toward the 2.5 foot but wonder if the 4 foot would give significantly better results. DA claims the db gain for each of these antennas is the same. Get the 2.5 if it didn't already come with your amp.When locating the inside antenna, consider that the DA included antenna must be mounted right side up (not upside down - DUH!). It can also be mounted with the base on a vertical wall, as the antenna will pivot on the base 90 degrees. I tested this, and sure 'nuff, the signal is degraded with the antenna upside down. Also, try not to mount the antenna so that the rod (radiator) is parallel to any nearby metal. A foot away should suffice, but if mounting on a vertical surface, this means it can't be metal. Also, consider that you want a relatively central location, and that the antenna will not transmit through anything of substance (i.e. metal or thick). Thus, my between the dinette and cab seats location in the MB.Quote A second question on another subject: I've followed your advice and example and purchased a Vortech GPS Antenna Repeater (yet to be installed - it's going to be a busy winter). It's not entirely clear where you mounted the inside repeater. If I read your description correctly, it's mounted on the bulkhead above the bunk on the left side, placing it above the Garmen unit. That makes sense, since the Garmen is looking for a signal coming from above. However, it's not, Quotestrictly speaking, line-of-sight because of the bunk. If it were mounted below the bunk, in plain veiw of the Garmen unit, the signal would be coming at right angles to the front of the unit, which may not be very effective. I'll play with it, as you did, but I'm interested in knowing exactly where you mounted the unit and how well it's working in the real world. Yes, it is mounted just above the bunk, on the MB's forward facing fridge cabinet wall, and almost as far inboard as possible. When the overhead bunk is folded down, the GPS RF signal will have to go through the bedding - - this presents no problem at all, as the signal is no attenuated to any significant degree. The advantage of keeping it high, is that I can still use the area forward of the fridge and outboard, to store the overhead bunk ladder. If putting the Vortech antenna lower, I couldn't get the ladder out.QuoteBest regards, Ron Wiese Likewise, and thanks for the good words,bumper "Yonder" Minden, NV
Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #4 – September 30, 2005, 03:07:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 58524Hi all, I finished the installation of the Digital Antenna wireless cellular amp/repeater in Yonder. Didn't take pictures to post in the Yonder album, as there's not been much response to this thread. But really, I was feeling a little guilty about using all the photo bandwidth for the many pictures I've already posted (guess I could go in and cull some - huh?)Anyway, what follows is a brief "how to" for those interested, and mostly this applies to the MB.There are only three components to mount, so this install isn't too difficult, but will take a few hours. The internal antenna is mounting on the rear face of the partition between the pax seat and dinette. The upholstery pad will need to be loosened to allow running the coax under its lower edge. Pry off two button covers and remove screws. Pry bottom of upholstery pad out a bit, no need to remove. Route wire under lower edge of pad, insert two small wood spacers under bottom edge of pad so pad will not crush coax when reattached. Coax then routes up and into overhead cabinet through 1/2 inch hole drilled behind window valance. I used a thin long drill to drill this hole from the bottom up, thus locating hole inside cabinet to drill 1/2" hole down.Remove screws from both inside end panels in cabinet overhead dinette (only front panel is removed). You will need to pull off carpet triangle at rear panel to access one of the 4 screws. Remove rear upholstered pad (faces stairwell). Pull up bottom panels (2) on floor of cabinet. Remove valance over side door - - if you will be mounting antenna on pax side near door, this ends the tearing it apart bit. If you will be mounting it near on on ladder, then you will have to take apart some more cabinets to run the wire concealed (and nice!). It would be easier to leave the coax exposed inside cabinets . . . and this could still be done neatly, I guess.Wireless amp is mounted on forward end of cabinet over dinette. Power may be obtained by tapping into 12v receptacle over dinette. I used lower terminal of "nite-lite" switch for switched power. Then replaced night light bulb with a small 3-LED light fixture (this fixture fits inside existing light housing so no patching or covering LD's mounting holes. I did this as the light will now be on anytime the wireless amp will be operating, which will probably be most of the time. The nite-light will now serve as the power-on reminder for the amp, while the LEDS draw such an insignificant amount of current, I won't mind leaving the light on all night. When using the switch for power, I still used the 12 volt receptacle for the ground side.Two 1 1/4" holes were drilled in the forward cabinet inside trim panel for ventilation. The lower hole also allows the units LED indicator light to be viewed with the cabinet door open, and permits access to the power on/off switch if desired (I'll use the LED nite- light switch for this).Coax for the outside antenna routes through cabinet bottom, then behind valance over door (be sure to drill holes so that coax will not be forced into too tight a radius). Also notch back side of aft cabinet upholstered pad so that it will not pinch coax. This pad is held in place by 4 screws previously removed. Drill suitable hole in wardrobe wall adjacent to upper valance mounting hole and route coax into wardrobe. Use suitable clamps or tape to secure coax to wall, out of sight, behind valance shelf. Actually, due to coax connector sizes, you will probably be routing coax from the outside antenna in and forward - - so just reverse these directions.Mounting the antenna above the awning box allows the entry hole to be easily sealed with polyurethane caulk. If taking it through the roof, when mounting the antenna to the roof rack or ladder, it would be necessary to use a through-the-roof vent fitting to ensure water- tight integrity is maintained.Sounds like a lot of work, but it's worth it if you boondock out in the boonies and still want to use your cell phones conveniently!All the best,Bumper Yonder Minden, NV
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #5 – October 03, 2005, 01:02:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58623Bumper - I didn't respond before, 'cause I was just drooling on the key board, and the whole thing shorted out. If you didn't already post a URL that shows exactly which Digital Antenna wireless amp/ repeater you bought, I'd sure like to have it.. . . I finished the installation of the Digital Antenna wireless cellular amp/repeater in Yonder . . .
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #6 – October 03, 2005, 01:40:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58625QuoteBumper - I didn't respond before, 'cause I was just drooling on the key board, and the whole thing shorted out. If you didn't already Quotepost a URL that shows exactly which Digital Antenna wireless amp/ repeater you bought, I'd sure like to have it.. . . I finished the installation of the Digital Antenna wireless cellular amp/repeater in Yonder . . . http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp? PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2214 You'll probably have to cut and paste. The DA4KMR-30U is the model you want. When you click on the buy it tab, it'll display the price, around $308 or so. That includes everything you need to install except misc. hardware and something to seal the antenna-to-coax connections for the outside antenna (they screw together, but should be protected with dialectric grease [electronics stores have this - maybe Radio Trash too]). Alternately, the connector can be wrapped with suitable sealant tape.I am so impressed with this product, that I'm going to call Digital Antenna and see what it takes for my company to carry their product line. If so, I'll post a follow up and let y'all know that we have them and for how much (just once, as I don't want to advertise here and have Andy get after me :c)bumper
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #7 – October 04, 2005, 07:17:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 58678" I am so impressed with this product, that I'm going to call Digital Antenna and see what it takes for my company to carry their product line. " Company? Are we giving someone else business that could go to a club member ?Karen
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Improving cell phone coverage Reply #8 – October 05, 2005, 02:31:14 am Yahoo Message Number: 58686Quote" I am so impressed with this product, that I'm going to call Digital Antenna and see what it takes for my company to carry their product line. " Company? Are we giving someone else business that could go to a club member ?Quote Karen (big smile!) My company, Morgan Alarm Co., Inc, was in Vallejo, CA . . . I haven't visited in a year, but they must be still there as they send me paychecks sometimes (though I'd fire me if I weren't the boss).When I checked with Digital Antenna, I found we'd have to place an intial order of $2000. Not a problem *if* there is enough interest from our customer base.I appreciate your kind thoughts about giving a club member your business, but I wouldn't wait for an un-sure thing if I were you (g).bumper
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