Vibrating passenger seat August 22, 2005, 05:10:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57144An out-of-state friend has an almost new 2004 LD with a seat problem. The passenger seat vibrates like crazy at various speeds and road conditions. It does it when the seat is occupied or empty. He called LD but did not get much of a response; "They just buy the seat". His mechanic has looked at it and has eliminated an out of balance wheel, a broken motor mount and drive shaft imbalance as possible causes. After seeing the seat vibrate, the mechanic suggested additional bracing in the base that the seat is mounted on. Looking at the seat frame in our 2003 LD, it seems solid, maybe he was referring to the tubular seat frame. I suspect that the seat frame has a sympathetic vibration that happens to be the same as some naturally occurring vibration in the E-450 chassis. Since the seats are aftermarket units, installed by LD, they have not gone through the long term testing that Factory seats as subjected to. It's just a theory but I'm running out of ideas. Searching the message archive, I see that a few others have had the same problem but no one reported a fix. I remember someone mounting the passenger seat on shock absorber bushings but that did not show up in the search.Anyone else had this problem or have other suggestions?ThanksLarry
Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #1 – August 22, 2005, 07:05:48 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57147"Larry" wrote: An out-of-state friend has an almost new 2004 LD with a seat problem. The passenger seat vibrates like crazy at various speeds and roadconditions. It does it when the seat is occupied or empty. He called LD but did not get much of a response; "They just buy the seat".Quote---- Larry, I met a couple (who have owned three Lazy Daze motorhomes!) who had this same vibration problem with the passenger seat on their 2004 23.5' TK. The man said that the vibration was so severe that his wife rode in the back of the vehicle rather than in the passenger seat! They were very upset because they hadn't been able to resolve the problem, and (according to them) the factory essentially told them that it wasn't happening! I suggested that they subscribe and post to this message board and see if anyone else had had the same problem and what they did about it, but they apparently aren't computer users.The factory doesn't appear to be willing to acknowledge this problem; a "buzzing seat" would drive anybody nuts in short order, so I hope someone on the board can come up with some solutions for your friend!Joan
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Vibrating passenger seat Reply #2 – August 22, 2005, 08:26:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57150As an old automotive engineer, I think you have nailed the source of the problem exactly. If that's the case, working on the seat structure won't help -- it's the coach that is vibrating at its natural frequency excited by road inputs. These problems are solved by changing the natural frequency -- moving it up or down to get it out of the range that is excited by typical road surfaces. This means changing structure or adding/subtracting mass. It's basically impossible for an individual to know how to revise the structure and it would probably take quite a change -- like possibly reinforcing the frame members along their length. Adding or moving mass may be a little more practical. In automobiles sometime "tuned dampers" (basically a hunk of iron of a particular weight) are added at the ends of the vehicle which move the frequency. However, since a small car may have a 2-3 pound weight on both sides of its rear bumper, I expect it will take much more mass for a vehicle as heavy as the LD. Your friend may try moving weight around the coach like repositioning the spare tire, putting heavy food cans somewhere else, etc to see if that has any effect. He might try towing a trailer with a heavy tongue weight to see if that helps. Also this type of situation is very sensitive to wheel balance of all tires, so he might try having some very good tire/wheel place re-balance every tire to higher standards than I expect most truck centers follow. I would think that the vibration might change in severity based on which tanks are full and empty. That might give a clue as to how much weight it will take to shift the frequency. However, since most tanks are between the wheels, that weight may not do much for the frequency shift. I'd be very careful about redoing the seat mounting. In a crash situation you want the seat bolted down to something very solid, not a rubber bushing...Good luck,Ed MertzAt home in Scottsdale, AZ An out-of-state friend has an almost new 2004 LD with a seat problem. The passenger seat vibrates like crazy at various speeds and road conditions. It does it when the seat is occupied or empty. He called LD but did not get much of a response; "They just buy the seat". His mechanic has looked at it and has eliminated an out of balance wheel, a broken motor mount and drive shaft imbalance as possible causes. After seeing the seat vibrate, the mechanic suggested additional bracing in the base that the seat is mounted on. Looking at the seat frame in our 2003 LD, it seems solid, maybe he was referring to the tubular seat frame. I suspect that the seat frame has a sympathetic vibration that happens to be the same as some naturally occurring vibration in the E-450 chassis. Since the seats are aftermarket units, installed by LD, they have not gone through the long term testing that Factory seats as subjected to. It's just a theory but I'm running out of ideas. Searching the message archive, I see that a few others have had the same problem but no one reported a fix. I remember someone mounting the passenger seat on shock absorber bushings but that did not show up in the search.Anyone else had this problem or have other suggestions?ThanksLarry
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #3 – August 23, 2005, 05:16:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57189Quote The factory doesn't appear to be willing to acknowledge this problem; a "buzzing seat" would drive anybody nuts in short order, so I hope someone on the board can come up with some solutions for your friend!Joan This makes me nervous as I thought that these were supposed to be top of the line vehicles with super support. It it normal for the factory to ignore such complaints? At the price of new and used Lazy Daze RV's I would expect more in the way of trying to resolve the problem. My guess is that it would be as simple as adding a little mas or another piece of metal to the piece on the seat that is resonating. As I say this is somewhat unnerving as the quality and support was one of the reasons I have been considering one of these units.Garry
Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #4 – August 23, 2005, 10:30:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57204QuoteAn out-of-state friend has an almost new 2004 LD with a seat problem. QuoteThe passenger seat vibrates like crazy at various speeds and road conditions. It does it when the seat is occupied or empty. He called LD but did not get much of a response; "They just buy the seat". His mechanic has looked at it and has eliminated an out of balance wheel, a broken motor mount and drive shaft imbalance as possible causes. After seeing the seat vibrate, the mechanic suggested additional bracing in the base that the seat is mounted on. (Data snipped for brevity)QuoteAnyone else had this problem or have other suggestions? Thanks Larry Hello Larry, A good motto to use when working with machinery is to fix the problem, not the symptom. Here are some suggestions: 1. Search the message posting database for messsages on seat vibration. 2. Find another mechanic. The cause could be something quite serious i.e. a safety item. A real clue is that the vibration is not constant and is affected by speed and / or road conditions. One of the first diagnostic tests is to determine on axle jacks if engine speed alone, engine and drive line running together accelerating, constant RPM and coasting has vibration. If no vibration occurs, then road test on known road conditions is next step. 3. Mothership does not build the E450 Ford cut-away cab chassis, which is, with just about 100% certainty, the cause of the vibration.Here are some potential causes. Loose front wheel bearing. Drive shaft center bearing roughness. Out of round tire. Defective (not broken) motor mount. Torque converter roughness at certain RPMs. Exhaust system misaligned. Wheel run-out not within tolerance. Engine unbalance or harmonic dampener failed. Bent front suspension component. Bent rear axle. Drive line installed our of phase. .....and many more. Please tell your friend nor to do unnecessary things to the seat, as it will most certainly NOT fix the vibration problem, which is somewhere in the E450 Cut-away cab chassis, not in the mothership cachwork or in the passenger seat.Don McG (Old - Really old - ex mechanic) 2001 LD MB
Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #5 – August 24, 2005, 02:32:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57227Ed said "As an old automotive engineer, I think you have nailed the source of the problem exactly. If that's the case, working on the seat structure won't help -- it's the coach that is vibrating at its natural frequency excited by road inputs.I'd be very careful about redoing the seat mounting. In a crash situation you want the seat bolted down to something very solid, not a rubber bushing."Don McG said "A good motto to use when working with machinery is to fix the problem, not the symptom. Here are some suggestions: 1. Search the message posting database for messsages on seat vibration. Here are some potential causes. Loose front wheel bearing. Drive shaft center bearing roughness. Out of round tire. Defective (not broken) motor mount. Torque converter roughness at certain RPMs. Exhaust system misaligned. Wheel run-out not within tolerance. Engine unbalance or harmonic dampener failed. Bent front suspension component. Bent rear axle. Drive line installed our of phase. .....and many more."Both of you have come up with the same basic line of thinking that I have. Since the LD is 1200 miles away, I have not been able to directly trouble shoot the problem. This is all being done long distance. With over thirty years of earning my pay first, by twisting nuts and bolts, and then managing equipment and auto mechanics, I too have seen many hard to find vibration problems. I did search the database and found other LD owners who experience the same problem. I was hoping that someone had found the cause and a practical solution. Lifting and setting the vehicle on a rack or on HD jack stands and thn running it a various speed has always been one of my favorite methods of tracking this type of problem. Most of the suggestions made by Don were those that I had already suggested to my friend, but who know how competent my friend's mechanic is? The only "solution " found was the shock absorber bushing idea, one that also I'm hesitant to suggest. I will be passing his way next summer on our way to the 50th Caravan, in case he is still trying to find a solution.Thanks for the help.Larry
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #6 – August 24, 2005, 03:11:57 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57228Larry, What model of LD does your friend have? We have a 26.5' 2004 Mid Bath and there are no such vibrations. Perhaps the problem is with a particular length and floor plan, which would explain why all LDs don't have the problem. Also I've found that some people are very sensitive to the vertical jitter and others don't feel it even when pointed out to them.Ed
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #7 – August 24, 2005, 06:04:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57233"what model of LD does your friend have? We have a 26.5' 2004 Mid Bath and there are no such vibrations. Perhaps the problem is with a particular length and floor plan"EdSearching the database I found three or four example. Message 13099 2002, no model listed. Message 42707 2004 26' RK Message 42804 NA 26" MB Message 57147 2004 23.5" TK Reported by Joan and my friend's 2004 23.5' TK. I wonder if the 2004 23.5 ' TK, reported by Joan, is the one owned by my friend?It would seem no one length or model is vulnerable.Larry
Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #8 – August 24, 2005, 08:27:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57241"Larry" wrote: I wonder if the 2004 23.5 ' TK, reported by Joan, is the one owned by my friend? --- Larry, the couple I met at a cg in Bozeman, Montana, were in their late 70s and originally (many years ago) from Germany; I regret that I don't recall their names. They live part of the year in Arizona and teavle the rest of the time. They mentioned that they had owned 3 Lazy Daze motorhomes over the years. Might these be your friends?Joan
Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #9 – August 25, 2005, 08:33:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 57244"They mentioned that they had owned 3 Lazy Daze motorhomes over the years. Might these be your friends?"Joan Different friends. My friend also is a previous LD owner but he lives in Colorado.Larry
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #10 – August 25, 2005, 05:01:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 57265May (or not) have anything to do with it, but my 2003 mid bath had the same problem until I had it aligned.
Re: Vibrating passenger seat Reply #11 – February 22, 2007, 10:59:51 am Yahoo Message Number: 76534If it isn't too time consuming please do the class C comparison........for all of us wannabes on this group. I don't think the floor plans on the BFs are as good, however. Thank you in advance.Judy Williams
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