Retirement Age February 07, 2005, 06:39:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50521I found the table below in a thread about retirement age over on rv.net. I found it fascinating, but could not find any more information on the net to either support or refute it. Anyone with ties to the actuarial industry have any contacts or information?Art Table 1 - Actuarial Study of life span vs. age at retirement (using old Boeing retiree data).Age at Retirement Average Age At Death 49.9 86 51.2 85.3 52.5 84.6 53.8 83.9 55.1 83.2 56.4 82.5 57.2 81.4 58.3 80 59.2 78.5 60.1 76.8 61 74.5 62.1 71.8 63.1 69.3 64.1 67.9 65.2 66.8 The most controversial part of the old Boeing retiree data is that it shows that for every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average for the age at retirement ranging from 55 to 65.
Re: Retirement Age Reply #1 – February 07, 2005, 06:44:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50522well.....at 48 I think I will go into work tomoorow and announce my very early retirement based on this post....so how do I support myself for the next 40 years? ....sell my new LD? .....no way!
Re: Retirement Age Reply #2 – February 07, 2005, 06:54:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50523Here you go, this article includes not only a thorough discussion of the Boeing data but also more-recent data from Sandia retirees that's no quite so pessimistic: http://www.cie-gnyc.org/president2002/life_span.docJoanne 1994 teal 23.5 TK Retired at 46, so I guess I'll live forever!
Re: Retirement Age Reply #3 – February 07, 2005, 07:39:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50525More recent Boeing data can be found at this url http://www.speea.org/general_info/files/life.htmIt says in part: "SPEEA recently received an updated chart from Boeing showing the status of retirees under the heritage Boeing Company Employee Retirement Plan (see chart depicting January 1, 2000 data)." For my part, I retired at age 50, and I expect to live forever. (It's working so far!)/noel/
Re: Retirement Age Reply #4 – February 07, 2005, 07:58:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50526"at 48 I think I will go into work tomoorow and announce my very early retirement based on this post....so how do I support myself for the next 40 years?" As most of you know, I plan to retire in 7 weeks, sell my central-NJ condo and live and travel fulltime in Gertie. I'm bailing out at age 55 not because I think early retirees live longer (the Sandia data that Joanne pointed to suggests this may not be true)...but because I strongly believe that early retirees have a better *quality* of life. I've seen people a few years older than me work and work to squeeze the last dollar out of their jobs, all the while planning what they will do when they're finally "free"--only to die within a year or so after retiring. And I've seen too many people my age get hit with unexpected medical disasters, such as cancer, that put a sudden end to their plans for the future. My pension will pay me a laughably small amount; I will have to supplement it with freelance graphics work, technical writing and other activities. Yes, I'll still be working-- but *on my own terms*, on my own schedule...and with my choice of the most beautiful scenery in the country, instead of a row of townhouses. I expect to be fairly poor...but very happy. :-) And I'm already rich in the friendships I've made in this group!Andy Baird
Re: Retirement Age Reply #5 – February 07, 2005, 08:25:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50528QuoteMy pension will pay me a laughably small amount; "The greatest obstacle to a life of adventure is the quest for financial security"Alexander Supertramp.
Re: Retirement Age Reply #6 – February 07, 2005, 08:35:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50530Quote from: Andy Baird" "As most of you know, I plan to retire in 7 weeks, sell my central- NJ condo and live and travel fulltime in Gertie." [snip] Andy BairdI think you're on the right track, Andy. If nothing else, you'll get Gertie out of the snow belt! It sounds like a huge step to take, but you have some excellent examples of previous LDers who have successfully taken the leap. You also are a planner, and have, I'm sure, done your homework regarding fulltiming.When you head in our direction, please let us know. We'd love to get to meet you somewhere down the road.Sharon N.
Re: Retirement Age Reply #7 – February 07, 2005, 08:58:46 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50531Here are the numbers from a GE curve of retiree deaths from 1970- 1990 for reference. It convinced many of us to retire early eventhough it looks pessimistic compared to the Boeing data. There were a lot more smokers in engineering 10-30 years ago and we didn't have all the info on saturated fats, sugar, white flower, cholesterol levels, stents, clot dissolving drugs, angiograms, body scans, PSA levels etc, etc!Over the years I also have known several people who retired at 65 and were dead within 18 months.Bob
Re: Retirement Age Reply #8 – February 07, 2005, 09:18:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50532Quote "I'm bailing out at age 55..."Andy Baird Andy I retired for the 2nd time at age 58. The period since then has been the busiest in my life. I don't know how I found the time to work all those years.The biggest factor in a happy retirement is 'attitude'. If you've got a good attitude it's like a magic carpet, just get on and ride.Steve S. Lazy Bones
Re: Retirement Age Reply #9 – February 07, 2005, 10:57:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50536Quote I expect to be fairly poor...but very happy. :-) And I'm already rich in the friendships I'veQuotemade in this group!Andy Baird I have two good friends that are quite well-off. The first is a retired Stanford professor and holder of several patents in cryptography. His definition of rich is:"Someone with 25% more than what you happen to have."The second co-founded a company called PeopleSoft (the company that Oracle just bought for 10 billion or something like that). His definition of rich is the one I like best:"Rich is when your income exceeds your expenses."all the best,bumper
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Retirement Age Reply #10 – February 07, 2005, 11:56:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50538At 02:58 AM 2/8/2005 +0000, you wrote:QuoteHere are the numbers from a GE curve of retiree deaths from 1970- 1990 for reference. My Dad retired from an aerospace company at 55 on the dot (he'd worked there since he was about 19, so he had a good pension and benefits), then turned right around and went back to work for them as a subcontractor through a job shop. Did that full-time for several years (probably until about 60), then went part-time (work two months, take three months off, and so on). He finally stopped working completely about ten years ago, at 75, but he still misses the excitement and interest of working...if not the daily drudge of routine. I wonder how you figure longevity in a case where true retirement doesn't come until after 20 "extra" years of working.Sonsie
Re: Retirement Age Reply #11 – February 08, 2005, 01:53:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 50541Quote I found the table below in a thread about retirement age over on rv.net. I found it fascinating, but could not find any more I think there are some deceptive qualifiers buried in these tables: - a lot of folks retire late because they don't want to retire. Once they do, they whither away quickly and die if they don't find new employment. In other words, they never learn HOW to live retired. - other folks may keep on working well past a planned retirement date due to illnesses that need an employer's health plan to keep them solvent. These explain enough cases to heavily skew the stats. I.e. it would be wrong to infer that working until late in life is inherently bad for your health. Perhaps a lot of those late retirees would still be around if not for mandatory retirement policies.Steve
Re: Retirement Age Reply #12 – February 08, 2005, 04:57:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 50542Quote".....The most controversial part of the old Boeing retiree data is that it Quoteshows that for every year one works beyond age 55, one loses 2 years of life span on average for the age at retirement ranging from 55 to 65."Art, just a guess, certainly not actuarial:Persons who made work it's own lives die when "it's life is over". People who retire early have other interests to pursue, and keep interested and excited with their lives.Morals: Hit the road....Eudoro
Re: Retirement Age Reply #13 – February 08, 2005, 10:24:58 am Yahoo Message Number: 50549QuoteThe period since then has been the busiest in my life. I don't know how I found the time to work all those years. Boy, do I agree with that!QuoteThe biggest factor in a happy retirement is 'attitude'. If you've got a good attitude it's like a magic carpet, just get on and ride. I think that people with a wide variety of interests do well in retirement. I find that the LD owners that we've met tend to fit that description.Art
Re: Retirement Age Reply #14 – February 08, 2005, 10:34:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 50550Quote I found the table below in a thread about retirement age over on rv.net. I found it fascinating, but could not find any moreI think there are some deceptive qualifiers buried in these tables: - a lot of folks retire late because they don't want to retire. Once they do, they whither away quickly and die if they don't find new employment. In other words, they never learn HOW to live retired. - other folks may keep on working well past a planned retirement date due to illnesses that need an employer's health plan to keep them solvent.Quote These explain enough cases to heavily skew the stats. I.e. it would be wrong to infer that working until late in life is inherently bad for your health. Perhaps a lot of those late retirees would still be around if not for mandatory retirement policies. I was suspicious of the data. That's why I was looking for more information. As has been posted, recent studies have found little correlation between retirement age and lifespan.It's probable getting about time to put this topic to bed.Art
Re: Retirement Age Reply #15 – February 08, 2005, 10:55:25 am Yahoo Message Number: 50553"aq433" wrote: "I think there are some deceptive qualifiers buried in these tables: a lot of folks retire late because they don't want to retire. Once they do, they whither away quickly and die if they don't find new employment. In other words, they never learn HOW to live retired. other folks may keep on working well past a planned retirement date due to illnesses that need an employer's health plan to keep them solvent. These explain enough cases to heavily skew the stats. I.e. it would be wrong to infer that working until late in life is inherently bad for your health. Perhaps a lot of those late retirees would still be around if not for mandatory retirement policies." Steve's points are well-taken; not everyone views "early" retirement (or retirement at any age) as a positive move! I've known several people who had little or nothing to retire *to*; more than a few of my colleagues left the job and fell into the void of hanging around the house getting in everybody else's way! They had few independent interests or hobbies or plans of how they wanted to spend their time. Some lost the feeling of usefulness and purpose, and were bored silly; they depended on their spouse or SO for entertainment and insisted that the other person adjust his/her lifestyle to their new status; if one partner was still working, the adjustments often became *very* difficult, and led to plenty of resentment. I retired at 55, and although I was better prepared, financially and emotionally, than many, the transitions to a completely different lifestyle and ways of finding personal and "professional" gratification were not always smooth and stress-free! Will I live longer retired than I would have if I'd stayed in my job? Who knows? My grandmother did the books (in a giant ledger and with a fine-point fountain pen and a magnifying glass!) for the family accounts until she died at 93; she needed to be useful, and couldn't conceive of not "working"; it defined who she was and it made her happy. I don't imagine that Grandma is alone in this feeling!Joan
Re: Retirement Age Reply #16 – February 08, 2005, 12:16:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50554It appears to me that it's not so much a later retirement that reduces lifespan, but it's staying too long at Boeing that's the killer. Think about it - toxic chemicals wafting through the air and seeping into the groundwater. This affects our lungs and our drinking and crop irrigation water. It's not a healthy environment in which to work - or to live. We, too, are selling our home, storing the furniture and heading out full-time this summer.Emily Of Emily & Joseph, and Lola (basset-aussie) 26.5 RB "Home" May 2005 delivery
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Retirement Age Reply #17 – February 08, 2005, 12:34:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50555Emily wrote:"It appears to me that it's not so much a later retirement that reduces lifespan, but it's staying too long at Boeing that's the killer. Think about it - toxic chemicals wafting through the air and seeping into the groundwater. This affects our lungs and our drinking and crop irrigation water. It's not a healthy environment in which to work - or to live."Hi Where did you work at Boeing where you saw these conditions? Before retiring from Boeing I had worked at Seattle, South Park, and LAP Renton. I saw none of these things. Boeing has allways enjoyed a high job satisfaction rating. Most people I worked with were happy to be there. TJ
Re: Retirement Age - Andy's new adventure Reply #18 – February 08, 2005, 01:39:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50557I'll still be working-- Quotebut *on my own terms*, on my own schedule...and with my choice of the most beautifulQuotescenery in the country, instead of a row of townhouses.I expect to be fairly poor...but very happy. :-) And I'm already rich in the friendships I'veQuotemade in this group!Andy Baird Well done Andy - my definition of retirement is "Getting to pick your busy" - you will be there even if someone happens to pay you some money for some of your busy!;-)DaveRuby the red 04 RK
Re: Retirement Age Reply #19 – February 08, 2005, 01:45:18 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50558Retirement; are you retiring from something or toward something - big difference. I retired toward a whole new life of leisure, personal growth and continued learning, new challenges, ravel, etc. I work part time when I want, travel when I want, and enjoy each and every sunrise and sunset and new vista. I also live on a fraction of what I once earned and certainly a lot less than "they" predict you need.I also ignore the actuarial tables to some extent and prefer to go with the IRS table for payout on IRAs, 401 (k), etc. They are much more optimistic. With decent health, I can handle 90 plus years old at death. See the condensed table below, from IRS Pub 590, App. C.Age Life Exp. Age at Death 55 41.5 96.5 60 36.6 96.6 65 31.9 96.9 70 27.4 97.4 75 22.9 97.9 80 18.7 98.7 85 14.8 99.8 90 11.4 101.4 (PS I do taxes, hence the IRS ref., in the colder, off-season, to keep my mind active and add another social venue) ---Go for it Andy. It will be great and satisying.Quote"The greatest obstacle to a life of adventure is the quest for financial security"Alexander Supertramp. "Been there, doing that and having a ball" 1 Likes
Re: Retirement Age Reply #20 – February 08, 2005, 02:04:16 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50559I think it has something to do with the Boeing management mantra to cure us engineers from ever more analysis: "It's time to kill the engineers and start production."best, paul
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Retirement Age Reply #21 – February 08, 2005, 03:04:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 505667 weeks!! Yee-haw, Andy!! I'll bet you have a calendar somewhere that you're marking off the days! Congratulations my friend. See you out on the road - Sarah
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Retirement Age Reply #22 – February 08, 2005, 04:37:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50568Before I retired, I set up an Excel spread sheet that would tell me the exact amount of time to the nearest second to my retirement. It was great fun, even though I enjoyed my work.I should have kept a copy so I could give it to Andy.Barry 01 r rb tx --- In lifewithalazydazerv@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Blackwood ... I'll bet you have a calendar somewhere that
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Retirement Age Reply #23 – February 08, 2005, 05:58:56 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50570At 10:37 PM 2/8/2005 +0000, you wrote:QuoteBefore I retired, I set up an Excel spread sheet that would tell me the exact amount of time to the nearest second to my retirement. It was great fun, even though I enjoyed my work. Barry, after my dad officially retired (but continued to work as a subcontractor), he had a similar chart that told him to the hour when he had earned as much as he could without lowering his SS check, and he arranged to finish that job as close to that hour as possible. Must be something that appeals to the engineering types among us...Sonsie
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Retirement Age Reply #24 – February 08, 2005, 10:41:25 pm Yahoo Message Number: 50573Well, Alexander............I like your table much better!! Probably more current than the previous mentioned ones. I think part of the reason for the early death rates on the other tables might be that hard working, smoking and drinking blue collar workers do have shorter life spans. Smoking being the biggest contributor to early death. But, none of us LDers have that nasty habit (anymore) do we!!!Live each day like it might be your last. Pat (Mac) Anxiously planning and awaiting the next trip.
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