Upholstery January 11, 2005, 12:13:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 49117All:Perhaps Lazy Daze needs to get some fashion sense on this since the response on this topic has been elevated. Personally, I don't have any idea of colors and designs so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have a thought or two.There is a show on TV where some gents try to assist a male with little or no taste in domestic issues by upgrading the person's house, apparel, and other outward appearances. This show is titled 'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy'...possibly they would be willing to do a fashion upgrade on the LD upholstery?!?!I could see Ed with several well-intentioned guys trying to change his mind on the color and patterns of the LD interior!FlyhighdriveslowDisclaimer: No intent to offend, or otherwise hurt any group or lifestyle with this posting.
Re: Upholstery Reply #1 – January 11, 2005, 12:29:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 49118[snip]Quote I could see Ed with several well-intentioned guys trying to change his mind on the color and patterns of the LD interior!FlyhighdriveslowDisclaimer: No intent to offend, or otherwise hurt any group or lifestyle with this posting. An outstanding suggestion! Hear, hear!Sharon N.
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #2 – January 11, 2005, 01:35:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 49120On Monday, January 10, 2005, at 10:13 PM, Garrett Hartsuyker wrote:Quote'Queer Eye for the Straight Guy'...possibly they would be willing to do a fashion upgrade on the LD upholstery?!?!I could see Ed with several well-intentioned guys trying to change his mind on the color and patterns of the LD interior! Garrett, what a wonderful idea! Or, if they're just too too booked up, the factory could definitely use Nancy Riley -- or her clone. The Rileys, you'll recall, completely gutted the interior of their brand new LD ... and the pix in the photo section don't begin to do justice to the fabulous job they did. Unfortunately, we're not all as gifted as the Rileys! The current brown upholstery is the absolute UGliest I've ever seen ... Early Goodwill is better than that "brown barf" stuff! I can't imagine how awful the other choices are. I'm wondering if the new offerings might eventually affect their sales. I personally like the plainer fabrics in the older model LDs and believe that over the years, the fabrics have actually gotten worse rather than better. It's a darn shame!Lorna, trying to get the slip covers to stop slipping!
Re: Upholstery Reply #3 – January 11, 2005, 05:34:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 49123"I personally like the plainer fabrics in the older model LDs and believe that over the years, the fabrics have actually gotten worse rather than better." Amen! As owner of a twenty-year-old Lazy Daze, I can attest that the upholstery fabrics used in Gertie are MUCH less offensive to the eye than anything LD has used in recent years. (See http://tinyurl.com/4pffe>.) What's more, they have held up extremely well after two decades of use. Many visitors have asked "Is this really the original upholstery??"Andy Baird
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #4 – January 11, 2005, 09:42:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 49139QuoteThe current brown upholstery is the absolute UGliest I've ever seen ...> Early Goodwill is better than that "brown barf" stuff! I can't imagine how awful the other choices are. I'm wondering if the new offerings might eventually affect their sales.QuoteLorna, trying to get the slip covers to stop slipping! Hi Group, As most of you know by now, I usually try to mix in my brand of humor/sarcasm in my posts to this group. Not this time. I am dead serious about this.I mean no offense to folks who are getting new rigs with the new upholstery, but that is the most hideous looking fabric I think I've ever seen in an RV. I spent a good day touring the Ohio RV Show. While bad taste abounds in the RV industry, the new choice(s) LD is offering, in my opinion, is the worst I've seen.More than once over the last year, I've thought about getting a new LD every couple of years because we are putting a lot of miles on our rig. IF I decided to get a new RV again, the current upholstery would be the deal breaker for me with respect to getting another LD.I can't understand their reluctance to hire a decorator to co-ordinate fabric and color choices. Honestly, you don't need to be a decorator to recognize bad taste either.I can accept the fact they won't make some desgin changes I would like, and I understand their limitations of option choices. If I were going to buy a new LD, I can work around some of the little things, but I don't think I should have to reupholster a new RV! If I had ordered a new LD without advance knowledge of those new fabrics, I would leave that sucker sit there, long wait or not.I think its time for us as a group to take some sort of collective action to influence the decision makers at the LD factory. If that photo of the brown upholstery is accurate, and it is representative of the other upholstery choices, I believe its time for us to make our voices heard. Whether it is a group petition, or deluging them with phone calls or e-mails, one way or another we should be able to influence them. For them to start showing some flexibility and respect for the customer's opinion would be a good thing.Steve K.
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #5 – January 11, 2005, 10:29:40 am Yahoo Message Number: 49145QuoteI think its time for us as a group to take some sort of collective action to influence the decision makers at the LD factory. If that photo of the brown upholstery is accurate, and it is representative of the other upholstery choices, I believe its time for us to make our voices heard. Whether it is a group petition, or deluging them with phone calls or e-mails, one way or another we should be able to influence them. For them to start showing some flexibility and respect for the customer's opinion would be a good thing.Steve K, Well said. My repurchase decision would certaintly be influenced by the upholstery choices and the Newtons will hear from me personally.Malcolm 2002 Blue MB with sedate interior.
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Upholstery Photos Reply #6 – January 11, 2005, 11:04:12 am Yahoo Message Number: 49149I'm confused about the upholstery photos posted . . . there's '2003 Interior Colors' - which was the same selection we chose from when we ordered our 2005 last year. There's also a photo titled 'LD colors' which has the brown fabric couch shown, which I assume everyone is referring to in their posts. This photo was posted 1/7/05 by Lorna. Is everyone saying they are using this fabric on the '05? If so, what do the other colors look like? Is it just for orders going forward - surely if we contracted with certain fabrics in mind, they won't switch them on us.Personally, I agree that Ed and Steve need to know how sales may be impacted by poor interior design.Emily & Joseph soon-to-be 2005 26.5' RB "Home"
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #7 – January 11, 2005, 11:11:04 am Yahoo Message Number: 49150At 11:33 AM 1/11/2005 +0000, you wrote:QuoteAmen! As owner of a twenty-year-old Lazy Daze, I can attest that the upholstery fabrics used in Gertie are MUCH less offensive to the eye than anything LD has used in recent years. (See http://tinyurl.com/4pffe>.) What's more, they have held up extremely well after two decades of use. Many visitors have asked "Is this really the original upholstery??" What Andy Said. In fact . . . "What Andy Has," as well. :-) Your couch upholstery is identical to ours, and our unit is from 1980. The stuff has worn like iron, and is comfortable as well.Sonsie
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Upholstery Photos Reply #8 – January 11, 2005, 11:22:09 am Yahoo Message Number: 49152Quote I'm confused about the upholstery photos posted . . . there's '2003 Interior Colors' - which was the same selection we chose from when we ordered our 2005 last year. There's also a photo titled 'LD colors' Quotewhich has the brown fabric couch shown, which I assume everyone is referring to in their posts. This photo was posted 1/7/05 by Lorna. Is everyone saying they are using this fabric on the '05? If so, what > do the other colors look like? Is it just for orders going forward - surely if we contracted with certain fabrics in mind, they won't switch them on us.Quote Personally, I agree that Ed and Steve need to know how sales may be impacted by poor interior design.Emily & Joseph Hello Emily and Joseph,You should contact LD immediately and ask them about which fabrics they will be installing on your ordered rig.I thought I read where somone posted that they were getting the new fabric. I would NOT assume you are getting what you thought you were getting. It will be interesting to learn what they tell you. Calls from people like you may help alert them to the fact most people are unhappy with what they are doing. Please let us know. Good luck!Steve K.
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #9 – January 11, 2005, 11:23:12 am Yahoo Message Number: 49153Not to worry about making our voices heard...the factory DOES read this website.Now whether or not they are influenced by it...?--- Barbara
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #10 – January 11, 2005, 12:02:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49159Quote Not to worry about making our voices heard...the factory DOES read this website.No doubt that they read it. It's a passive attempt for us to try to affect change. Those who feel strongly about this and other issues should take their case directly to the source. Then and only then will you know if they have been influenced.Malcolm
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Upholstery Photos Reply #11 – January 11, 2005, 12:14:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49164Quote I'm confused about the upholstery photos posted . . . there's '2003 QuoteInterior Colors' - which was the same selection we chose from when we ordered our 2005 last year. Remember that carpet, linoleum, etc. is cut within the week or two of your order way back when then sits around waiting for your order to hit the assembly line months down the road. Thus, you will not have a problem with the new look - my two cents, wow, that is not a good look :-(DaveRuby the red 04 RK
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #12 – January 11, 2005, 12:30:26 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49168Malcolm, I respectfully disagree. The factory is already well aware of how this group feels about the new fabric and I don't think a petition or e-mail campaign will be that much more effective.A drop
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #13 – January 11, 2005, 12:56:35 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49169Quote Malcolm, I respectfully disagree. The factory is already well aware of how this group feels about the new fabric and I don't think a petition or e-mail campaign will be that much more effective.A drop in sales because of the fabrics would be, I should think. Like most companies, they're driven by the effect on their bottom line.Quote --- Barbara Barbara, I respectfully disagree with you. If you think that 10-20 people posting here will cause a reaction in Montclair, I think your sorely mistaken. I can hear Ed now saying, "why should we change what we planned on. So a dozen internet fanatics say they don't like it, so what!" But if they are bothered with having to answer the phone and hear from owners and potential owners, read e-mails, etc. then they know its more than just a few disgruntled people with nothing better to do than post on the internet. This group is probably the single most effective selling tool they have; using its clout just might get them to finally respond in a positive way.As an aside, I live in the Cleveland area. Back in the 1990's our football team was moved, despite years of sold out stadium seats. It was an activist campaign that got the attention of the NFL and we got another franchise much sooner than anyone thought possible. Its apathy or lack of involvement that often impedes progress. If you don't want to make a call or send an e-mail, at least don't discourage people from trying to make a difference.Steve K.
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #14 – January 11, 2005, 01:45:05 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49174Hi Steve --- I think you misunderstood my post. I did not state that the postings here would make a difference...I think a future drop
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #15 – January 11, 2005, 08:20:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49197QuoteI think its time for us as a group to take some sort of collective action to influence the decision makers at the LD factory. customer's opinion would be a good thing.Quote Steve K,Well said. My repurchase decision would certaintly be influenced by the upholstery choices and the Newtons will hear from me personally.Malcolm 2002 Blue MB with sedate interior. Malcom, Please let them know you are not the only one concerned. I am a very actively looking wannabe and though I have no taste my wife does and this could affect our decision.ThanksTerry
Re: Upholstery Reply #16 – January 11, 2005, 09:53:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49207Ooooooooo! I LOVE this idea! I have mental images of Ed's reaction with these 5 Fab Guys! Too funny.Anne
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #17 – January 11, 2005, 11:42:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49219Quote Now whether or not they are influenced by it...?--- Barbara I have read the postings related to the change in upholstery with great interest. I will take delivery of a 26.5 MB by the end of February (as will our closest friends.) Per a call to LD this week our units will come with "2004 blue", as ordered.I spent most of may career as a product and marketing manager, responsible for positioning our new products so that they would appeal to the "target market." I am now retired and 70 years old, however, the product planning and marketing instincts are still sharp. If I were product manager for LD, here are the questions I would ask if I received a "letter of dissatisfaction" from this group about the choice of new upholstery:1. How many LD owners does this group represent? What percent of our total owners is this? (I don't know, but guess that it is 25% or less.) 2. What is the average age of these LD owners in this group? (My guess is 65 or older.) 3. How many of these LD owners in this group will purchase a new LD within the next 5 years? (My guess 10% or less.) 4. What percentage of our total business does the purchase of new units by members of this group represent? (My guess less than 10%).5. Do the members of this group represent our target market? (If I were product manager for LD, the answer is "no.)In my opinion, LD's target customer should be a 55-year old "baby boomer." I think that these persons represent the market for RV's in the next 5 to 10 years. I also think that this target market might have an opinion of the "new upholstery" that is different than ours. In fact, the new upholstery might not be "wild" enough.I don't know how LD comes up with their interior designs, but I concur that the designs leave a lot to be desired. I also feel that this group's opinion on their interior design may be a bit too conservative for LD's target market (assuming that they have identified same).I don't mean to start a "flame war." However, I think that all will agree that our tastes and opinions are quite different than those of our children (or the next generation).I am going to the mothership within the next few weeks and will try to get pictures of all the new upholstery and will post same.Doug
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #18 – January 12, 2005, 01:06:50 am Yahoo Message Number: 49221Quote In my opinion, LD's target customer should be a 55-year old "baby boomer." I think that these persons represent the market for RV's in the next 5 to 10 years. I also think that this target market might have an opinion of the "new upholstery" that is different than ours.QuoteIn fact, the new upholstery might not be "wild" enough.Doug I may not be statistically appropriate, but just recently bought an '05 LD ("Yonder") Blue on blue. At 59 (really almost 60), I guess that puts me at the upper range of LD's target group. I think the new patterns are ugly. The fabric pattern in Yonder is acceptable, but just. In this regard, tamer and plainer is better. (Hi Ed and Steve . . . listening?).all the best,bumper (Minden, NV)
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #19 – January 12, 2005, 01:37:15 am Yahoo Message Number: 49222At 05:41 AM 1/12/2005 +0000, you wrote:QuoteIn my opinion, LD's target customer should be a 55-year old "baby boomer." I think that these persons represent the market for RV's in the next 5 to 10 years. I also think that this target market might have an opinion of the "new upholstery" that is different than ours. In fact, the new upholstery might not be "wild" enough. Well, I fit your "target market" almost exactly, and I think the pattern is terrible. In fact, IMO the designs have gotten worse over the years instead of better or more modern. This is "retro," but not attractively so. I've never seen anything quite like it in any of the interior design or home improvement magazines I read, and I see plenty. I agree that the prime LD market is the Baby Boomer around 55. I suspect that the average age of this group is younger than 65. A number of people have posted about traveling with under-21 kids (some still in grade school), and many others mention that they are not yet retired, or are nearing retirement age but not there yet. IOW, mostly under 65. I also suspect that more than 10% will be ordering a new LD within five years; I'd guess that more than 25% will be. This is based on the regularity with which people are posting their order numbers, pickup stories, and messages about visiting the factory.It would be interesting to find out more about who we are, in that statistical sense, wouldn't it? In any event, I haven't seen anybody posting that they like the new fabric design, age notwithstanding. Clearly, some people don't mind one way or another, but those who have voiced an opinion have been negative.Sonsie
Re: Upholstery Reply #20 – January 12, 2005, 04:54:00 am Yahoo Message Number: 49228Doug, all of your points are well taken. I could say, as some others have, that at 55 years of age I represent exactly the demographic you refer to, and I hate LD's fabrics...but I can't speak for everyone my age. Yes, tastes vary across generations. But it's not safe to assume, as you do, that the median age of this group is ten years above the 55-year-old target audience; in fact I believe it's much lower. There's no way to prove that, since most people don't include ages in their Yahoo profiles, but I know from moderating the group for the past several years that we have many members who are 55 or younger--down to the late thirties and early forties, in fact. My assessment is that we represent a pretty good cross section of LD's desired market, not just a bunch of grumpy old farts. ;-) Even if that were not true, this group represents a powerful group of "influencers"--people who have an effect on sales that is way out of proportion to their numbers, because they are the ones to whom many potential buyers turn for guidance. Lazy Daze is well aware of the part this group plays in recruiting buyers. With this in mind, the fact that the new fabrics (and to a lesser extent, the ones they replaced) are *unanimously* loathed by everyone who's expressed an opinion ought to make Lazy Daze stop and think. After all, choosing a fabric design is not an economic issue--it costs no more to pick an attractive one than it does to pick an ugly one. But the cost of a bad choice, expressed in lost sales, can be substantial; recent messages from potential buyers in this group have made that point loud and clear. I can tell you that if I were at an RV show and walked into a Lazy Daze with the new fabric, I'd probably walk right out again. If Lazy Daze had focus group studies showing that the 45-55 age group preferred the new patterns, I'd be willing to agree that they should cater to that group. But the Newtons don't do that kind of market research. They just pick what looks good to them. Unfortunately, their personal taste is demonstrably at odds with that of their largest and most influential group of customers--us. That's a problem any marketer should take seriously.Andy Baird
Re: Upholstery Reply #21 – January 12, 2005, 06:23:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 49229Quote But the Newtons don't do that kind of market research. They just pick what looks good to them. Unfortunately, Quotetheir personal taste is demonstrably at odds with that of their largest and most influential Quotegroup of customers--us. That's a problem any marketer should take seriously. Andy & Others, You all have a much better understanding for the demographics of this group than do I. I feel strongly that the group represents a major marketing force for LD and that LD would be better served if they acknowledged some of the groups thoughts and ideas. It appears that a significant portion of LD's business comes via "word of mouth" advertising. I think that the thought Andy expressed above summarizes it and that LD doesn't really "market" their product.Doug
Re: Upholstery Reply #22 – January 12, 2005, 08:53:26 am Yahoo Message Number: 49235As a 55-year-old retiree who plans to buy an RV in the coming year, I must say that I am delighted with the new upholstery. Yes, it's absolutely hideous. But anything that might drive away LD customers will only serve to shorten the waiting period when I buy MINE! I can't help wondering if the upholstery choices are based on some huge discount they receive in exchange for taking something that the fabric manufacturer couldn't sell the previous year. But that still doesn't account for the observation that each change is worse than the one before it. The plaids of the 80s are the only LD fabrics I could possibly live with, so I was already resigned to getting out the sewing machine and staple gun.JoanneLD wannabe and seamstress
Re: Upholstery Reply #23 – January 12, 2005, 09:23:17 am Yahoo Message Number: 49238"The plaids of the 80s are the only LD fabrics I could possibly live with, so I was already resigned to getting out the sewing machine and staple gun." Given the widespread dissatisfaction with LD's upholstery choices, it sounds as if there's a business opportunity here! How about a "rolling reupholstery shop" that travels to clients?Andy Baird
[Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Upholstery Reply #24 – January 12, 2005, 09:55:24 am Yahoo Message Number: 49241QuoteIn my opinion, LD's target customer should be a 55-year old "baby boomer." I think that these persons represent the market for RV's in the next 5 to 10 years. I also think that this target market might have an opinion of the "new upholstery" that is different than ours.QuoteIn fact, the new upholstery might not be "wild" enough. An interesting take Doug, well thought out. For what it's worth, Kristine and I are some of those Boomers - in fact, we're tail end Boomers at 46 for me and less than that for Kristine ;-)Personally, I believe the new look is bad. In fact, we didn't much like the 04 look except for the tan colors which we bought. Perhaps LD would be better served by providing a wild pattern AND a very plain, solid color scheme.DaveRuby the red 04 RK
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