110 VAC January 04, 2005, 01:53:28 am Yahoo Message Number: 48650Hi all,When I ordered Yonder (MB), I didn't think about requesting a 110 VAC outlet at the TV for running the DVD or sat receiver. I gather that most are using a small inverter plugged in to the DC outlet there to get the needed AC.While this is doable, some electronics are happier with a pure sine wave, and since I'm putting in a Prosine 2000 to provide AC for the whole coach, it'd be nice not to have to use a small inverter as well.Fortunately, LD was kind enough to put in an access panel at the forward end of the driver side rear couch to provide access to the rear of the shower valves. This is a vertical void from top to floor, and it looks like it may be possible to snake some Romex over to the AC receptacle at the aisle just behind the bathroom door. Anyone done this?all the best,bumper
Re: 110 VAC Reply #1 – January 04, 2005, 11:15:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 48657John While I cannot address the stringing wire issure, I would make a suggestion that you consider a 12vdc DVD. I have installed one
Re: 110 VAC Reply #2 – January 04, 2005, 12:25:59 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48659bumperI went about this in a little different manner. I installed the inverter near the power panel. A 120 VAC relay is wired in so that when ever the inverter is powered up, all the 120 VAC outlets (with the exception of the separate microwave circuit) are transferred to and powered by the inverter. The relay is used as a transfer switch. The microwave is not included since our inverter is rated only at 600 watts. This provides an easy way to operate the refrigerator on 120VAC when on the road, saving propane. See http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lw5315us/album?.dir=719c&.src=ph&store=& prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lw5315us/my_photos Or http://tinyurl.com/4anybLarry
Re: 110 VAC Reply #3 – January 04, 2005, 04:06:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48662Thats exactly what we did and it is plugged into the switched 12V outlet near the rear LCD tv
Re: 110 VAC Reply #4 – January 04, 2005, 09:10:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48684Quote John While I cannot address the stringing wire issure, I would make a suggestion that you consider a 12vdc DVD. I have installed one in our 2000 MB and it works fine. Dan When I looked at Camping World - Fairfield, they didn't have any 12 VDC models . . . where dis you find yours?Since I'll need AC power for the sat rcvr anyway, I'll go ahead and install an AC outlet behind the TV. I may be wrong on this, but I suspect the 110 AC DVD players will offer more features, progressive scan etc, and at a lower price than DC models.For Larry,The Xantrex Prosine 2000 has a built in transfer switch so no need to add a relay for that function. It also has a better 3 stage 100 amp battery charger than the charger that comes with the LD converter. So the converter portion of the stock LD distribution panel gets scrapped and some extra AC circuit breakers go in its place.all the best,bumper
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #5 – January 04, 2005, 11:01:32 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48688QuoteThats exactly what we did and it is plugged into the switched 12V outlet near the rear LCD tv
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #6 – January 05, 2005, 01:41:13 am Yahoo Message Number: 48693Lorna If you go to Froogle and search for "12 volt dvd players" you will come up with a number of 12 volt DVD players. The model I have is a "Blaupunkt DVD ME-1" If you search Froogle for "Blaupunkt DVD player" you will find they have a Me-1, -2, and -3 models, ranging in price from about $100 to $150. If you go to the LD Enhancement site you will find photos under "LCD Installation" showing how I tore out my old RCA TV in my 2000 MB LD and replaced it with a LCD TV and installed the DVD player along with the VHS tape player. Initially I included an inverter but discovered that the TV will run directly off the 12 volts system so I took it out. Dan
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #7 – January 05, 2005, 06:35:56 am Yahoo Message Number: 48698The model I have is a Quote"Blaupunkt DVD ME-1" If you search Froogle for "Blaupunkt DVD player" Quoteyou will find they have a Me-1, -2, and -3 models, ranging in price from about $100 to $150. Dan I too have a 12V Blaupunkt DVD and the picture quality is superb - can't remember if I have the 1 or the 2 but it cost about $100 over the Internet.DaveRuby the red 04 RK
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #8 – January 05, 2005, 10:22:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 48710QuoteLorna, I also purchased the Blaupunkt dvd-me1 from Midwest Electronics 800-562-5978 total price $115.95 delivered. I have it in the rear cabinet in our mb next to the tv. You will need a multible 12 v plug to plug in with your tv. This can be purchased from radio shack per Andy's previous posting. I ran the wires through the opening and hooked to the back of the tv. I had to slide the tv out just enough to reach the terminals in back. Works great.Joe Hamm-San Jose
Re: 110 VAC Reply #9 – January 05, 2005, 11:42:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 48718"The Xantrex Prosine 2000 has a built in transfer switch so no need to add a relay for that function. It also has a better 3 stage 100 amp battery charger than the charger that comes with the LD converter."bumperA 100 amp charger..wow, that beats the heck out of the converter's max of 45 amp plus having the advantages of a three-stage charger. Having the `echo' charger is a nice touch for keeping the chassis starting battery topped off. The highest converter charge rate I have observed was 43 amps and that last for only a few minutes before it drops below 40 amps. A 100-amp charger may be overkill for the two stock batteries but since you are planning to use four batteries, it should be a perfect combination. Instead of running the generator to charge the battery, we run the engine instead. This provides a much higher charging rate when compared to using the generator and converter. Using the engine has the additional advantage of being quieter and introduces less vibration into the interior of the MH. The Onan Microquiet 4000 is not a quiet generator. Honda needs to get into this market.When I get around to replacing the two T-105s with four T-145s (520 amp/hour), I'm may run larger cables from the alternator to the coach's batteries for increased current capacity. I also want to replace the diode isolator with a 'smart' relay, to further reduce voltage drop and current limitations. See http://mastercatalog04.westmarine.com/0612.asp?LinkBackProdId=5461I have found a space, under the floor and behind the propane tank, where four batteries can fit, using a large steel tray to hold them. It will be raised and lowered using either a small electric winch or, preferably, a cable operated spare tire holder from an old pickup truck. This would use a removable crank handle to operate. The tray could be raised with a floor jack but I would like to be able to access the batteries when on the road. I do not anticipate having to raise and lower the tray often because the water can be added using a Pro-Fill battery watering system. Four batteries will enable the installation of larger inverter, one large enough to operate the microwave. Next, two 65 watt solar panels will be added to the existing 85 watt panel to help keep the larger battery charged when boondocking. Then, maybe I will not have to worry about using the generator or engine for charging.Larry Improving your LD is almost as much fun as traveling in it...almost.
Re: 110 VAC Reply #10 – January 05, 2005, 12:03:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48719QuoteA 100 amp charger..wow, that beats the heck out of the converter's max of 45 amp Keep in mind that Trojan specifys that the maximum (sustained?) charging rate for flooded batteries is 15% of their rated amp-hour capacity. That means that two T105s in series should be charged at no more than 33 amps.Linley
Re: 110 VAC Reply #11 – January 05, 2005, 12:20:06 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48722Larry/ Bumper,This has been a most interesting thread. Larry, your pictures were great. Anyone installed a similar system in a RB? I would be very interested if anyone has done this.What a great group!Happy New Year All,Craig
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #12 – January 05, 2005, 12:51:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48724Dan,There was some discussion earlier about noise
Re: 110 VAC Reply #13 – January 05, 2005, 12:51:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48725Linley,The key word here is "sustained". However, microprocessor controlled, 3-stage (bulk, absorption, float) "smart chargers" typically monitor the battery bank temperature, voltage and current, to be sure the initial battery charge rate is not excessive. This allows them to fully charge the bank
Re: 110 VAC Reply #14 – January 05, 2005, 12:57:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48726"Keep in mind that Trojan specifies that the maximum (sustained?) charging rate for flooded batteries is 15% of their rated amp-hour capacity. That means that two T105s in series should be charged at no more than 33 amps."Linley The primary problem with high charge rates is the boiling off of the electrolyte. The T105 holds a lot of extra electrolyte, so this isn't a big problem. Our LD requires battery water only twice a year and that's with the converter always powered up, when parked at home.Trojan T-105s are some of the toughest deep-cycle batteries around. We have dozens of T-105 operated electric carts, floor scrubbing and polishing machines at work and they all charge at much higher rates than the recommended 15% (60+ amps). They need high charge rates to recharge in a reasonable amount of time, usually eight hours. They require frequent adding of water (weekly) but that seems to be the only real downside. In heavy daily use, we get 2-4 years from a set of batteries.A properly operating battery charger should only provide as much current as the battery is capable of using. The battery's internal resistance (or impedance) controls this. As the battery's charge level increases, the internal resistance increases, limiting current flow. Ohm's law strikes again! A battery has to be seriously discharged to draw the maximum for a long period; the charge rates usually drop of quickly in normal usage. Some multi-stage battery chargers can be adjusted to limit the maximum charge levels at each stage. This can be handy when using AGM or gel-cell batteries.Larry
Re: 110 VAC Reply #15 – January 05, 2005, 01:04:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48727QuoteI have found a space, under the floor and behind the propane tank, where four batteries can fit, using a large steel tray to hold them. QuoteIt will be raised and lowered using either a small electric winch or, Quotepreferably, a cable operated spare tire holder from an old pickup truck. This would use a removable crank handle to operate. The tray could be raised with a floor jack but I would like to be able to access the batteries when on the road. I do not anticipate having to raise and lower the tray often because the water can be added using aQuotePro-Fill battery watering system. Larry Improving your LD is almost as much fun as traveling in it...almost. Larry,I'm still noodling on the best way to raise and lower the battery tray. I bought a box (Blue Sea) to keeps them clean, so the larger footprint of the box is dictating where they'll fit - - and so far, the between the frame rail location looks best. Also it provides for a short run to hook to the original battery bank. To make this work even easier, I bought in-line welding cable connectors from www.weldingdepot.com for the 4 GA cable connecting the two banks. (yup, I know it would be better to use 4/0 or better wire for the Prosine surge capability [4KW], but too much hassle to run such heavy wire when the most I'll be running on the inverter is the microwave.) That way the battery tray can be removed from under the vehicle without the hassle of trying to undo terminal posts. I'll be using a Pro-fill on it too. Photos when (or maybe - if) I'm done.bumper "Yonder" in Minden NV
Re: 110 VAC Reply #16 – January 05, 2005, 01:42:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48730QuoteThe Trojan charge rate specs, like other battery manufacturers, must take into account that the typical charge scenario does not include the level of battery condition monitoring that is available in better quality chargers. So they have to list the specs conservatively. Possibly so. However in http://www.trojan-battery.com/customercare_batterymaint8.html They mention a 10% to 13% charging rate in the same breath as they recommend using a three stage charging system. The implication is limited charging ratesAnd, they are well aware of modern charging systems because in http://www.trojan-battery.com/customercare_batterymaint9.html they give you the voltages to set the charging system to. All in all, while I, like you, think their charging specifications are very conservative, exceeding them by 3 times probably is not a good idea. And, Larry, the fact that some manufactureres push the envelope while charging does not mean that it is a good practice. Going well beyond Trojan's recommendations is likely to shorten battery life.Linley
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #17 – January 05, 2005, 01:45:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48731Barry Yes I did have some hash out of the inverter. So I hooked it up direct to 12 volts. It is more efficient that way, you don't have the power loss
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #18 – January 05, 2005, 04:05:20 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48747Dan,I was referring to noise from the LD converter when you are plugged into 110v. While pure battery operation is very clean, my understanding was that there was some noise imposed on the 12v lines when the LD converter was
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #19 – January 05, 2005, 05:35:29 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48757Barry The only problem I ever had was with the inverter. I ran it off the RV 110v when plugged into shore power and it was clean. I had previously upgraded my converter to the 7000 series converter which is supposed to be better. Dan
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #20 – January 05, 2005, 05:41:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48759QuoteHi Dan, Great TV installation. Could you tell me brand/model of your 20" LCD TV. I couldn't make it out in the pictures.TIADave 2000 RB AlbuquerqueQuoteYahoo! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players Reply #21 – January 05, 2005, 06:03:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48761See msg 48731 Dan
Re: 110 VAC Reply #22 – January 05, 2005, 07:13:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48765" the fact that some manufactureres push the envelope while charging does not mean that it is a good practice. Going well beyond Trojan's recommendations is likely to shorten battery life."Linley I fully agree. My point was that T-105s are brutalized daily and still have reasonable life spans. With proper care, battery life of 6-8 years is common. Since most of our batteries will only receive high charge rates occasionally, the overall life span of the battery doesn't change much. I would rather change batteries a year earlier in exchange for less engine or generator run time; your priorities may be different. Lead-acid Batteries are cheap when amortized over a six-year period. In marine/commercial/industrial applications, the same applies. Change the batteries more frequently in return for higher equipment duty-cycle rates. Batteries are cheap, equipment is expensive. For many, it's a matter of finances. Ideally, batteries could be charged at high current levels, without damage. AGMs have that characteristic but weight more and much, much more expensive. They are also more sensitive to over charging and since they are sealed, you cannot add water or electrolyte. Everything is a compromise or balancing.Larry
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV]12v DVD Players--Now CA State Parks Reply #23 – January 05, 2005, 10:23:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48776Dan, thanks so much for the info on where to look for 12v DVD players. I'll start my search when I can determine if it's even feasible with a standard permanently-installed 2003 TV in the overhead RB Entertainment Center. I'm so technically challenged, I'll need to actually see one before my pea brain can understand what goes where!! When I'm ready, at least I'll know how to shop for it.In the meantime, Joe Hamm-San Jose...regarding your weekend plans: After spending a week+ at the refurbished Half Moon Bay State Park, it has become my CA Central Coast beachside destination of choice! Having camped at 4 oceanside state parks in the past 30 days, Seacliff is a gigantic rip off IM ever so HO!Being a "local" you probably know that during the Winter, only four hook up sites are reservable at Seacliff. The remaining 20 or so hook up sites and parking lot "overflow" sites are available on lottery or FCFS basis. But last week, because of the storms, Seacliff was not admitting new campers (me among them), and only those with prepaid reservations (surely you jest!) or who were already camped there (read: paid) were admitted or allowed to stay. Also, the lovely refurbished New Brighton CG had been closed because of fallen trees, (one on top of a new bathroom), etc. and occupants *with reservations* had been sent down to Seacliff where they were allowed to "camp" in the upper parking lot, midst the county vehicle pool! Though not offering hookups, Half Moon Bay was just a beautiful hour's drive north and had plenty of empty spots. This park is delightful! Clean, recently completely refurbished, well laid out, a huge day-use area with oceanside picnic tables and BBQs adjacent to the campground, horseback riding trails behind the campground, *two* parking pads per camp site (one for your toad), showers, a visitor center, dump station; and it's just a few miles away from the fabulous Fitzgerald Marine Reserve, funky HMB Main Street and Princeton Harbor. The 10 or so oceanside spots (of about 52 total) are a stone's throw from the beach (you can see the surf), separated only by a strip of green-green grass and some ice plant, and offer glittering night time views of HM Bay, unfettered views of darting kites, "Biblical" sunsets and rainbows *and* is 10 bucks less than the boondocking, no-amenity price to park next to an untamed generator reverberating off the pavement at Seacliff! New Brighton, which does have some hookups and is located on a woodsy bluff a short walk to the beach, is also completely refurbished, has a four-tier fee schedule, but all are, likewise, a fraction of Seacliff's fees. This is also a wonderful park -- quiet, clean and spacious and filled with ocean sounds. The beach-side camp sites at Gaviota and Refugio (Santa Barbara coast) are beautiful and also a fraction of Seacliff's fees. So "what gives?" Near as I can tell, Governor Dergroper has apparently given individual parks authority to set their own fees, in this case, whatever the traffic will bear, a whopping $44.40 a night at Seacliff before the old phartz $2.00 discount! The 2005 parking lot price is $35.00! For 2005, Half Moon Bay is a fantastic bargain at $25.00 -- amenities, views, the ocean at your doorstep, the whole enchilada -- less $2.00 if you're over 62 = $23./night, up from $20./$18. Go figure! If you're coming this way, my first choice would be for a stay at one of the *new* parks: Half Moon Bay or New Brighton (now re-opened).I'd also be interested in hearing about other CA State Park fee increases -- apparently they were not raised x% across the board. What's *your* experience so far this year? Lorna, happy to share this lovely discovery -- last time I camped here was in a tent a few decades ago!
Re: Half Moon Bay camping Reply #24 – January 06, 2005, 03:14:47 am Yahoo Message Number: 48786One advantage of winter camping at Half Moon Bay is the close proximity of the commercial fishing pier at Pillar Point Harbor. You can buy salmon and crab directly from the fishing boats as they return to the dock. Anglers can arrange for a day trip on a sport fishing boat here as well. Another advantage of camping at Half Moon Bay in winter is the chance to watch big wave riders at Maverick's, the famous surf spot. Climb the bluff with the big radio dish (aka Pillar Point) on the north side of Princeton Harbor for the best view. Cowabunga, dude!--oryoki
Topic: 110 VAC (Read 4 times)
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