V10 engine adopted December 22, 2004, 11:48:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 48202From Oryoki.............LD adopted the E-450 chassis with V10 engine for the 26ft models in late 1996. The factory continued to use the E-350 chassis with 460 V8 for the 23ft models until 2003................ When Ford discontinued the 460, it was probably sudden, not phased in. A friends '97 TKB had the V10, and so does my '99. Both are on the E350 chassis. I don't know about the model year '96. The bad news is that the V10 used in '97-'99 is totally different from the V10 used afterwards, 2000 and newer. I could have ordered a 2000 model TKB, but got the last of the Ford '99 chassis from LD. (I believe Ed said that he had two Chevy chassis left that he was having a hard time selling) I didn't know of the pending changes to the V10. I did know that the 2000 TKB swapped the position of the cabinet and microwave. My microwave oven is above the stovetop hood. It was moved to above the sink so that it would be easier to see into, and also access wouldn't involve reaching over a fire on the stove. So my engine was only made for four years, and it might be harder to find parts in future years. For example the Dodge 360/454, GM 350, and Ford 460 were made for many years with little change. Ron and Bluebelle in sunny San Diego.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #1 – December 22, 2004, 03:37:37 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48211"The bad news is that the V10 used in '97-'99 is totally different from the V10 used afterwards, 2000 and newer."Ron and BluebelleYour early V-10 is the same basic engine as the later ones. All engines 'evolve' from year to year and so does the V-10. Ford is now building a 3-valve per cylinder V-10 but that does not make it a different series of engine, it's just a running improvement. The Dodge 360/454, GM's 350, and Ford's 460 all had dozens, if not hundreds of changes made to them during the their years of manufacture.Parts will be available for your V-10 for many years so don't worry about it. In our fleet usage at work, all the V-10s have proved to be very durable engines with few problems. It does need to be maintained properly, primarily oil changes. The only problem with the earlier V-10s is the lesser amount of horsepower. It is still a major improvement over the old 460, particularly in terms of durability.Larry
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #2 – December 22, 2004, 08:58:11 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48214"Larry" wrote: "...all the V-10s have proved to be very durable engines with few problems. It does need to be maintained properly, primarily oil changes..."Although Ford's "Scheduled Maintenance Guide" recommends an oil and filter change for the V-10 E450 every 5000 miles, I have this service done every 3000 miles. Changing the oil and filter at 3000- mile intervals can get a little pricey ($50.00 a pop at the local Ford truck center), but I believe that this oil-change frequency provides inexpensive-in-the-long-run insurance against premature engine failure.Joan
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #3 – January 05, 2005, 10:45:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48777"The only problem with the earlier V-10s is the lesser amount of horsepower. It is still a major improvement over the old 460, particularly in terms of durability."If the engine's are so similar, how are they different? Is it possible to put the newer exhaust, intake or whatever on the older model V10? Or would it be possible to put the higher horsepower V10 in my LD? Would this require a newer tranny also?
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #4 – January 06, 2005, 06:51:07 am Yahoo Message Number: 48787"If the engine's are so similar, how are they different? Is it possible to put the newer exhaust, intake or whatever on the older model V10? Or would it be possible to put the higher horsepower V10 in my LD? Would this require a newer tranny also?"cduplantisExternally, the older engines look the same as the newer ones. You can install a tuned exhaust system, such as the Bank's and get most of the power gains that the newer engines have received. You could probably install a newer engine and factory exhaust but it would be very expensive for the slight power gain. You may have problems making all the electronics work together. Go for the Bank's exhaust, it will give you what you want for less money and hassles.Larry
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #5 – January 06, 2005, 08:16:14 am Yahoo Message Number: 48791QuoteIf the engine's are so similar, how are they different? Is it possible to put the newer exhaust, intake or whatever on the older model V10? Different cams, different exhaust manifold design, different timings.... Unfortunately you can't retrofit a '99 or older V10 with parts and get identical to the '00 and newer (except to replace the entire engine). I don't think there were any changes to the 4R100 transmission.The Banks PowerPack will take care of air flow design and some air/fuel timing, and the engine does run cooler, so it gets you most of the way there for a lot less than a new engine. Adding the Transcommand will keep tranny temps cooler, much less "hunting" on hills, more secure descents (less freewheel) as it changes transmission shift points. All this from our experience putting the Banks equipment on our '99 when we had it. The biggest reason to put on the Banks would be for acceleration/power, hill climbing if you feel you need it. We felt more confident in our ability to accelerate to speed entering highways, etc., and keeping up with traffic on hills.Don't expect any improvement in fuel economy (despite what the ads will try to have you believe) - you actually will offset any potential improvements by using that extra power to accelerate. Our fuel economy was the same or down slightly (less than 5% difference and probably not statistically significant) after the mod. Bottom line, it would be something to do if you feel more power is worth ~$2K.Michelle
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #6 – January 06, 2005, 10:36:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 48802QuoteDon't expect any improvement in fuel economy (despite what the ads will try to have you believe) - you actually will offset any potential improvements by using that extra power to accelerate. Our fuel economy was the same or down slightly (less than 5% difference and probably not statistically significant) after the mod. Bottom line, it would be something to do if you feel more power is worth ~$2K.Michelle Michelle 'n all, I wonder how much power gain can be had adding a Banks system to the newer engine/tranny? Guess it would depend on how much of the newer engine power gain was had by improving air flow through the engine . . . but the stock exhaust manifold looks nothing like a nice SS header (g). With nothing to compare my new LD MB to, except an 87 Pace Arrow P30 (cough, hack) - - the new LD is awesome already!
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #7 – January 06, 2005, 12:49:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48813QuoteI wonder how much power gain can be had adding a Banks system to the newer engine/tranny? I've heard - none. Ford apparently redesigned the headers on the newer V10 as well. Back when we were researching for our Banks, I'd come across a couple of post on rv.net fora or elsewhere detailing folks' disappointment at spending so much for a Banks on an '00 and not being able to tell the difference.The Transcommand module might be helpful with transmission pressure/shift points though, and is only a couple of hundred $ last I looked.If you're looking just at headers, you might want to check into Thorley's or something like that. Others can probably comment better on that, or look around at some of the rv.net posts or some of the Ford truck enthusiasts' boards. I've found the latter to be invaluable for info on the V10.Michelle
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #8 – January 06, 2005, 08:24:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48839We just had the Banks system installed last fall on our 2001 V10 along with the trans-command and the difference in power, acceleration and hill climbing is quite noticeable. We are very happy we got it. When we looked at the stock exhaust configeration vs the Banks, there is considerable diffence... it's much more of a straight shot with the Banks - much larger and more direct. We also got rid of a couple hundred pounds with the switch.We drive over the Rockies and the Sierra Madre every year and we noticed a lot more power climbing the Sierra Madre this year, the transmission hunts less, there is more power and we no longer get stuck behind slow trucks. We talked to Steve before we did it and while he didn't really think it was necessary, he did say that since we drive through large altitude changes it would probably make a difference. He also recommended that we have it installed at the Banks plant in Azuza. It was a day and a half install and they will hook you up to electric if you want in front of the plant. It's actually a campus, with interior street and numerous buildings and security. We stayed there the night before our appt and they brought Tortuga our to us the next night and came back for her very early in the morning. They start work at 6am so it makes sense to get there the night before. We were done by noon on the 2nd day. If you feel that you could use more power on your V10, I recommend it. We are very happy with the difference. They also installed a transmission temp guage for us while we were there.Jonna, at 6500' in San Miguel de Allende
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #9 – January 07, 2005, 09:53:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48915Quote We just had the Banks system installed last fall on our 2001 V10 along with the trans-command and the difference in power, acceleration and hill climbing is quite noticeable. We are very happy we got it. Jonna, how does the exhaust "noise" compare to the OEM system? I don't want to know if it sounds more powerful, I want to know how much louder it is inside the cab with all the windows closed -- (1) cruising on level roads and (2) pedal to the metal up a mountain? A big part of the Banks power gain appears to be from a reduced backpressure muffler, and I've never seen one of these yet that doesn't increasd the db considerably.Glenn
Re: V10 engine adopted (Noise) Reply #10 – January 08, 2005, 03:30:45 am Yahoo Message Number: 48926I have had the Banks on my V-10 for 2 years and I have not noticed more than a very slight increase in noise inside the motorhome while running under load, under load while towing on a grade, or while idling. The sound at the tail pipe is somewhat louder, but a mellow sound. The noise difference is so slight that it is not an issue with me. I do not think that most folks would notice any difference. It certainly does NOT compare with the sound of "glass packs" on a hot rod. The improvement in performance is considerable and I would not hesitate, on my next rig, to have a Banks installed at their Azusa facility. I would not do it at Camping World as it needs to be done by experienced technicians that do this all of the time. I also have the TransCommand, Banks Torque Converter, and a Gear Vendors Overdrive and I would do them again.Quote Quote Jonna, how does the exhaust "noise" compare to the OEM system? I don't want to know if it sounds more powerful, I want to know how much louder it is inside the cab with all the windows closed -- (1) Quotecruising on level roads and (2) pedal to the metal up a mountain? A
Re: V10 engine adopted (Noise) Reply #11 – January 08, 2005, 09:37:46 am Yahoo Message Number: 48936Can you recall what you paid for this package, installed?Thank you.
Re: V10 engine adopted (Noise & Cost) Reply #12 – January 08, 2005, 02:27:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48949Hi Bob,For the Banks PowerPack & TransCommand
Re: Banks, noise and cost Reply #13 – January 08, 2005, 02:58:09 pm Yahoo Message Number: 48951It is slightly louder than it was before. We noticed it when we first had it but don't anymore. I don't think there is a significant increase in noise in the cab, we can still converse in low tones and listen to music on a low volumne. You can hear the difference when you first start it up and stand outside near the exhaust. The exhaust pipe is about twice the diameter of the stock one, we are paying close attention to it when going over topes (mexican speed bumps) as we don't want to hit it - so far, so good. I can hear it a little more when we are accelerating on a hill, passing a slow truck for instance, and the engine is really working. We tow a jeep wrangler and the power difference in those situations is fantastic.We used the show deal at the Pomona RV show to purchase ours. The total cost for the Powerpack System and Transcommand installed was $3283.78 For the Transmission temperature guage, mounting panel and install (which included a charge for 2 bolts that broke in the process - they warned us this might happen) $347.05. Did I tell you how loud Tortuga was when they had everything off and drove her out that first night for us to spend the night? Wow!Jonna, in San Miguel still. We've met some great RVers here and we are having a lot of fun so it's hard to leave.
Re: V10 engine adopted (Noise & Cost) Reply #14 – January 11, 2005, 04:16:54 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49180Quote...(Never again at Camping World for a complicated installation !!!!) Since I have never had any work done by Camping World I cannot comment on it from personal experience. But I can say from personal experience that in Nov or Dec of '03 () I was speaking to a Banks salesman about their open box sale and during the conversation I mentioned that the price at Camping World was less than what he was quoting me (parts only - I was going to do the installation myself.) After an awkward silence he said "We are no longer affiliated with Camping World." I pressed him for a reason and he would not tell me and since he was obviously uncomfortable with the topic, I dropped it. I have not seen Banks products advertised at Camping World since then (but I have seen the GearVendors products.)QuoteI have some write ups on the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Techsnoz/Quotewebsite that you might be interested in. The are found under the "Files" tab: Power.doc and Gauges.doc I'm interested - what's the secret? I can't get access to the "Files" tab.
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #15 – January 16, 2005, 06:34:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49470Jonna,This is great - you're the first person I've heard that has installed the Banks
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #16 – January 16, 2005, 09:39:52 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49481Hi Michelle, I wish I could tell you that I knew more about it but I don't. On the visible portions, the exhaust pipes coming off each cylinder on the engine are larger and the tailpipe/exhaust pipe is about double in size. From the pictures I saw, the pipes
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #17 – January 17, 2005, 06:29:24 am Yahoo Message Number: 49489Did Steve (the LD Steve, I assume) actually give you an clear opinion -- yes or no -- whether you should install the Banks-plus- transcommand on your LD? ( What year/model is your LD?)many thanks!
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #18 – January 17, 2005, 03:36:51 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49508I talked to Steve Newton at the RV show
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #19 – January 17, 2005, 04:08:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49509Thank you. that's very informative. I'd love to have the extra Banks' power when it's really needed ...but ... I'll probably not get Banks, considering the cost.We are Florida-based and we do not do a whole lot of major mountains. Eastern mountins were no problem last Fall, towing our 2004 Wrangler Sahara. On our trips through the Rockies it'll be easy enough for one of us to follow behind the LD driving the Wrangler once
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #20 – January 17, 2005, 06:18:22 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49520Quote I talked to Steve Newton at the RV show in Pomona as we were there to see what the show price would be on the Banks system. He didn't say clearly yes or no although I think his opinion leans towards no. He said he didn't think it was necessary but that it depended on how we used it. He realizes that we are fulltimers, tow a jeep wrangler and make an annual trek across the Rockies and the Sierra Madre. So, he said that it might give us the additional power we need but that it probably wouldn't give us better mileage and that if we were going to do it we should get the transcommand and only have it installed at the Banks factory. I believe he said something like "get the guy who designed it to install it" and equated it to having work on a Lazy Daze done at the mothership versus some other RV shop. My impression is that for general use he doesn't think it is necessary.We have a 2001 RB.Jonna, still feeling like my head is a sponge but getting better. Jonna:We live in the Rockies and in any direction we have to cross 10,000 foot passes. We have a 1998 V-10, which has less power than yours, and we average more than 20,000 miles a year.Although we never towed, we feel no lack of power in the engine at all. You can spend the money on a Banks, but I never would, simply because we do not need it.Gus Weber
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #21 – January 18, 2005, 02:51:25 am Yahoo Message Number: 49540Gus, We didn't spend the money either for the first 3 years of most-timing but a few things made it worthwhile for us. We also have driven over Berthed, Wolf Creek and other 10k+ passes towing the jeep and without the Banks. Slowly, but we did it.When we sold the house, despite enormous self-control, we ended up heavier than before. We are near our max now. This includes the jeep which has more stuff
Re: Towing with low tanks Reply #22 – January 18, 2005, 10:03:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 49549"Something we didn't often do before, we now try to travel with empty tanks including the gas in the jeep. We keep the LD gas tanks above half but everything else we try to keep as low as possible." You've probably thought of this already, Jonna, but just in case--it'd be a good idea to carry a siphon/pump hose so you can move gas from one vehicle to the other. Should Tortuga break down in the middle of nowhere, you may want to use the toad to go for help, and in that case you'd want to be able to pump some gas into it from the LD's tank.Andy Baird
Re: V10 engine adopted Reply #23 – January 18, 2005, 12:14:47 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49555Seems to me you two did exactly the right thing installing the Banks- plus system, based on your needs. It sounds like a great improvement. We would love to go with Banks but cannot cost-justify it because our needs are different.Most importantly, we expect our Mexico drivng will be rare--- if it ever happens ;-) Also, we are comfortable with one of us driving the Wrangler separately on occasion. Our high-quality Motorola two-way hand-held radios make that a lot easier. Finally, we are not full- timers so our 2004 26.5 MB always is 13,000 pounds, ready to roll.On the other hand, we are happy about the money we spent on safe-t- plus steering and heavy-duty front and rear sway bars. They paid off
Re: Towing with low tanks Reply #24 – January 18, 2005, 02:36:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 49561Yup! That was one of our presents to Tortuga this summer. It seems that neither of us want to renew that teenage taste of gas
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