Log In | Register
Skip to main content
Topic: Safety questions (Read 13 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Safety questions
Yahoo Message Number: 23808
Being in Minnesota and having some severe electrical storms the past few nights, I started thinking about the safety issue of being inside the LD.  How safe is it to be inside the LD during a thunderstorm?  I have always thought that because of the tires, it would be safe inside a vehicle.  Is this true with a MH?  How about if a person was parked and was using hydraulic levelers?  Of course, I realize that if there is tornado warnings etc.,  a person should seek another safer shelter.  I would appreciate if anyone could explain the safety/non-safety issue behind being inside a vehicle during storms.

Kathi
Re: Safety questions
Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23813
Kathi,

Living in Central Florida otherwise known as "Lightning Alley" or "The Lightning Capitol of the US" we've weathered several afternoon T-storms in our LD and have watched even more go through our area, almost daily during this time of year. I worry more about trees and other things falling on the LD than the lightning hitting it! Provided that there aren't any tornadoes or tornado warnings in your area it's perfectly safe to be in your LD during a thunderstorm and even a severe thunderstorm. I'd be more concerned with trees or large limbs falling on your LD from wind gusts than the lightning.
I'd also worry more about large hail in a severe storm more than the lightning while inside the LD. Micro-bursts are another thing that would concern me more than the lightning and they can accompany any severe storm.
 Provided you aren't touching any metal that has contact of some kind with the outside "skin" or chassis of the LD lightning won't be a big problem for you should it hit the LD. That is unless you have a gas leak of some kind either propane or gasoline. Using hydraulic levelers won't make you any less safe. The aluminum "skin" of the LD acts as a shield or "umbrella" for the interior and if you have levelers down they give the lightning a more direct path to the ground should it strike the LD. You may also be hooked to shore power while the levelers are down and you're camped and that also provides a grounding point. I would suggest you have a weather alert radio to warn you of any severe weather that may affect you as has been discussed in this group previously. If any lightning does hit the LD I think the bigger problem will be with systems failures in the LD due to it.

Mike R.
Re: electrical storms
Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23814
"How safe is it to be inside the LD during a thunderstorm?  I have always thought that because of the tires, it would be safe inside a vehicle."
 Tires make no difference. Remember, lightning can jump a thousand feet in air (which is a good insulator)--it can certainly jump across six inches of wet rubber! But that's OK. You are sitting inside a metal cage--just as in a car--and all the electricity is going to flow through the skin of that cage. (Note, however, that the "metal cage" protection does NOT apply to Saturns and Corvettes, whichhave plastic bodies. As far as lightning is concerned, you are about as safe in your Lazy Daze as you can be.
 You can find lots more detailed information, including photos of cars that twere struck by lightning, at http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/ vehicle_strike.html>. They say that "Reported incidents and related injuries make it clear that a person inside a fully enclosed metal vehicle must not be touching metallic objects referenced to the outside of the car. Door and window handles, radio dials, CB microphones, gearshifts, steering wheels and other inside-to-outside metal objects should be left alone during close-in lightning events. We suggest pulling off to the side of the road in a safe manner, turning on the emergency blinkers, turning off the engine, putting one's hands in one's lap, and waiting out the storm.

Andy Baird :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Safety questions
Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23816
Thanks Mike R and Andy for a short course on lightening safety.  I'll feel much safer now in my LD in the future during T-storms.

Kathi
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Safety questions
Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23818
Mike R.

Good description regarding lightning exposure.
 But that brings up another point. Should we not be protecting our LD systems from power surges with Autoformers and surge protectors?
 I do use an Autoformer to maintain constant voltage, and it works well, but am thinking of adding a surge protector. The Autoformer will protect against surges, but the literature advises that the appliance may be damaged, requiring return to the factory. The UPS cost for a round trip transportation alone would probably exceed $50, thus the inclination to purchase a surge protector.
 Anyone have experience with using a surge protector, and any thoughts about what is a good one?

Ronald 2001 Red Rear Kitchen
Re: Safety questions
Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23821
"Should we not be protecting our LD systems from power surges with Autoformers and surge protectors?"

Ronald,

I use neither with my LD! I do have surge protection and/or UPS systems on most electronics items in my home but not in the RV. A surge protector is pretty worthless in a close lightning strike anyway. Many of the devices today also have internal protection that prevents the same problems. You're better off using standalone surge protectors though if you do use them then most of the products marketed for RVs today. Most of those offer less protection than good quality surge protectors from Belkin, APC, Tripplite, etc. Take a look at the joule rating and surge amps; those are the most important specs. Many of these devices use MOVs and they aren't as good as the current technologies like resettable fuses that are being used in many of the current electronic products right from the manufacturers anyway. Magnetek (now Parallax) uses PPTC resettable fuses in most of their converters and that is the best current technology.

The fact is that most surge damage comes in not from the electric power lines that typically have protective devices on them. Most come from antennas, cable TV, and phone lines that don't have any protection on them and then pass through the internal electric system. There was a discussion on this in the past and I provided a link to a hard wired 30 amp surge protector that will do far better than any of the ones marketed for RVs today if you want a whole system surge protector. You can use the search function to check the archives for that discussion. In the event of a lightning strike though don't expect it or any other surge protector to save your equipment! They won't! Surge protectors only offer a small amount of protection and nothing will prevent lightning damage if your rig is hit by it or it hits the power line or ground close by!
 If I do add surge protection to my LD it will be with the hard wired 30 amp unit I linked previously, here's that link again.
 http://www.elect-spec.com/wire_in2z.htm

Mike R.
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Safety questions
Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23823
Mike R.

Excellent explanation on surge protection. Puts my mind at ease.

Thanks

Ronald 2001 Red Rear Kitchen
Re: Safety questions
Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23853
"I do have surge protection and/or UPS  systems on most electronics items in my home but not in the RV. A  surge protector is pretty worthless in a close lightning strike anyway."
 If the strike is close enough, it will get through any protection--that's true. But this is like saying "If you hit a wall at 80 mph your seatbelts won't save you, so why wear them?" As we all know, the reason is that they can save your life at lower speeds, and most accidents occur at lower speeds. The same is true for power surges.
 It isn't the extreme cases like lightning that I worry about. It's the everyday spikes that are common even in businesses and residences, as appliances like refrigerators, stoves and air conditioners turn on and off. (Few people realize it, but shutting off  a compressor-type appliance can cause just as big a spike as turning it on.) These repeated "shocks to the system" can gradually degrade electronic equipment until it becomes unreliable or fails.
 And that's the best-case scenario. Power in campgrounds is notoriously "dirty." In addition to voltage sags due to overloading, inadequate wiring or aging equipment that makes poor contact, these power lines are shared among scores of rigs whose owners may think nothing of turning on the air conditioner and the microwave oven at the same time, sending nasty spikes down the line to everyone else on that circuit. An autotransformer will stabilize the voltage long-term, but as far as I know it has little or no effect on millisecond spikes.
 I don't want to exaggerate the danger here. In the past three years, I personally have only heard of about half a dozen cases of equipment damaged by surges in campgrounds. That's a very small percentage compared to those who have had no problems (including me). Nevertheless, it makes sense to take precautions, because lightning is far from the greatest danger to your TV, VCR, and so on.
 Now with all that said, I have to admit that I haven't yet added a surge protector to Gertie, even though all of my equipment at home is protected by the highest quality surge protectors I could get. My excuse (and it's almost true ;-) is that with Gertie, I practically never plug in--95% of my camping is solar- only, off the grid. Just the same, I really ought to add a ZeroSurge or similar surge protector. I'll put it on my list...

Andy Baird :-)
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Safety questions
Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23879
My experience is that you're better off with high-quality surge protectors for each individual appliance than with one incoming protector.  Several years ago the top of a tree blew off during a windstorm and landed in my electrical wires at home.  This sent 240V throughout the house and destroyed just about every 120V electrical appliance I had.  My expensive whole house surge protector fried with the first jolt and then just let everything through.  Likewise, the cheap Woods protectors that I had bought at Home Depot were worthless.  The only thing that worked was the Tripp Lite protector that I had put on my computer equipment.  The Tripp Lite worked like a charm and can be reset with the touch of a button.

Dave

richmondmj829 no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: "Should we not be protecting our LD systems from power surges with Autoformers and surge protectors?"

 SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Safety questions
Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23887
"My experience is that you're better off with high-quality surge protectors for each individual appliance than with one incoming protector."

Dave,
 That's my feeling as well and as Andy mentioned items inside the home can put voltage spikes on your internal electrical system as well that an incoming "whole house" surge protector won't help with. If you don't use high quality surge protectors from a well known company you might as well not bother spending the money on them.

Mike R.
 
Re: Surge protection?
Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23890
"If the strike is close enough, it will get through any protection-- that's true. But this is like saying "If you hit a wall at 80 mph your seatbelts won't save you, so why wear them?" As we all know, the reason is that they can save your life at lower speeds, and most accidents occur at lower speeds. The same is true for power surges."

Andy,

Even a lightning strike that isn't close can damage your equipment even with a surge protector. As I said before more of the damaging surges don't come from your electrical line anyway. That doesn't mean I don't think they are worth using. If I did why would I use them at home? Any added protection is worth it but individual protectors for those items that can be affected are a better way to go and almost always cheaper too. The question was asked in regard to using them for lightning strikes and in most of those they won't do much if any good.

"It isn't the extreme cases like lightning that I worry about. It's the everyday spikes that are common even in businesses and residences, as appliances like refrigerators, stoves and air conditioners turn on and off."

These are the types of surges the surge protectors are really meant and designed for in the first place. Older electronic equipment didn't have any internal protection for these types of surges.
However most products made since the 80's have included surge protection devices in them. Manufacturers don't want to have to do warranty repairs for failures that theses surges can cause so most of them today put protective devices right in the products. Even modem mfgs are now putting them in modems and that is the #1 cause of surge damage in computers. Most switching power supplies and even motherboards today have surge protection on the supply voltage side.
They don't typically have any on the bus or ports though and that's why surges from that area can damage more than just the modem or other item that it comes in from. Most TVs, VCRs, stereos, and other equipment have them also. Many new refrigerators, AC units, and other things do as well and those devices often protect them from feeding the surge into the home wiring.

"These repeated "shocks to the system" can gradually degrade electronic equipment until it becomes unreliable or fails."

That's exactly how we sold manufacturers on putting them into their equipment since the 70's when I was in industrial electronic component distribution. That's why so many now incorporate it into their equipment today!
 "Power in campgrounds is notoriously "dirty." In addition to voltage sags due to overloading, inadequate wiring or aging equipment that makes poor contact, these power lines are shared among scores of rigs whose owners may think nothing of turning on the air conditioner and the microwave oven at the same time, sending nasty spikes down the line to everyone else on that circuit."

This is true for many campgrounds but not all. The electrical codes today help prevent some of these problems that older campgrounds are "notorious" for. Of course the protection I talked about that the power companies have on the lines won't always help inside the campground itself. The current codes don't stop all those problems either.
 "I don't want to exaggerate the danger here. In the past three years, I personally have only heard of about half a dozen cases of equipment damaged by surges in campgrounds. That's a very small percentage compared to those who have had no problems (including me).
Nevertheless, it makes sense to take precautions, because lightning is far from the greatest danger to your TV, VCR, and so on."

I've been RVing a lot longer and the percentage of people that had problems is very small. Some that I do hear of I have to wonder if it wasn't "user error" and not really a true surge. I know it can and does happen but I've heard of it happening in a campground we stayed in while there and only one RV was affected! That sounds pretty far fetched to me that nobody near him had a problem including the guy sharing the same electrical post!
 One thing that we must consider is that most items in our RVs get the power through 12vDC system. In most RVs they filter the converter by hooking things through the battery bank. Batteries makes a great filters! I know LD does from my talks to Steve when I had the infamous TV hum on my 2001 26.5MB (now eliminated). The only item with a compressor in our LDs is the A/C unit. The refrigerator doesn't have any, though it does have an AC heat coil that is used when on 120vAC power. The other electronics in the refrigerator, water heater, furnace, etc are 12vDC operated and the power is filtered through the battery. The newer 7300 series converters also have filtering in them as well as surge protection from the factory, though additional protection can't hurt. Unless the equipment you want to protect is AC powered and connected to an AC outlet that gets the power from the shore power or generator you haven't got a lot that can be damaged by surges. In most rigs just the microwave and if you have a DVD, satellite receiver, or other electronics connected to a 120vAC outlet (not an inverter powered one) then those should have individual surge protection, which is the best way to protect them. I actually have one on my microwave but nothing else because I don't really have anything else now that requires one.
 For you Andy having a surge protector may not even be needed or worth the money. If you plan to use 120vAC electronic devices and use shore power having the for those devices is worth it.

Mike R.