Re: Solar Panels Reply #25 – December 16, 2003, 10:36:01 am Yahoo Message Number: 31384QuoteCould someone please explain to me why I seem to be getting the impression that this ED guy or others actually try to talk you out of options. The solar pannels are some of the few options they actually offer and sale. Solar charging is extremely important for those than plan to camp without hookups. Why in the world would they be trying to discourage orders? If they cause problems with the roof or are too heavy, etc they shouldn't even offer them until a viable option is engineered.. I think it's mostly a case of trying to find the "best" fit for each customer. Ed Newton has been making and selling these coaches for nearly 40 years and is proud of their product. He has talked to thousands of customers, from newbies to repeat LD buyers, and probably does have a feel for what the customer's needs and wants are. For future sales, they are much better off with satified customers than trying to sell every available option. But if you have researched things and truly feel you know what your needs are, don't let Ed or anyone talk you out of it. They have a very successful product, but are very conservative in making changes. But they DO change their product when enough people ask for the same things!Art
Re: Solar Panels Reply #26 – December 16, 2003, 11:06:41 am Yahoo Message Number: 31385Quote from: mtnmanj2003 (snip)"If they cause problems with the roof or are too heavy, etc they shouldn't even offer them until a viable option is engineered.."This is not the case at all; LD doesn't make changes quickly (!) or offer an option without extensive "testing". They build additional support into the roof for the solar panel(s), and I'm not aware of any roof "problems" caused by LD's installations of the panels.Ed Newton -- and Steve, too, to a lesser extent -- will try to talk a customer out of a particular option if they feel the option isn't needed, either on the model of LD or for the customer's intended use. If a customer insists, they will add the option to the coach order; it's ultimately the client's choice.LD has been building coaches for a long time, and most of the time, their experience-based recommendations are right on, and I'm pretty sure that their "counsel" has protected some customers from their own potentially unwise/expensive decisions. The Newtons *do* respect those who do their homework, understand the "systems", and take time to carefully evaluate their needs before ordering. (I overheard one couple on the factory visit discussing having two solar panels installed so they would be able to run the air conditioner and microwave; I owuld have liked to have been a "fly on the wall" when Ed heard that.)If one wants two solar panels, get two solar panels, but understanding the function and capabilities of solar panels before parting with the $2000 is a good idea, I think.JC
Re: Solar Panels Reply #27 – December 16, 2003, 11:09:58 am Yahoo Message Number: 31386"Could someone please explain to me why [Ed and other LD employees] actually try to talk you out of options." Because they aren't typical money-grubbing RV salesmen--the kind who will load a coach with profitable options whether the customer needs them or not. They want you to have what works best for you, and not blow your bank account on useless (to you) add-ons. Yes, the Newtons are a little conservative in their thinking sometimes, and solar panels are probably the best example of that. But let's face it, $1,000-$1,500 isn't chump change, and if (as is true with many RVers) you plan to stay mainly in campgrounds with hookups, then you probably don't need to spend that money. "If they cause problems with the roof or are too heavy, etc they shouldn't even offer them until a viable option is engineered." Trust me, that isn't a problem! The LDs with solar panels have extra bracing. You could probably land a helicopter on an LD roof! ;-) The panels don't weigh that much to begin with. I have a 1985 coach that wasn't even designed for solar panels, but is now carrying four--retrofitted when she was ten years old. No roof problems. If I should ever find myself butting heads with Ed over this issue while ordering a new coach, I would simply smile and say "Ed, I'm an electronics technician, I know exactly what I want...and I'm just as stubborn as you are. So let's write the order!" ;-)--Andy Baird
Re: Solar Panels Reply #28 – December 16, 2003, 12:12:07 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31388I guess I have some related questions that I could pose now. I already asked the factory about upgrading the LP capacity and of course got the "no way Jose" response. 17 gallons is acceptable, but I'd love to have the 24 gallon bottle just for convienience and peace of mind. Any idea if a request to upgrade to the 8 ft3 fridge will fly? Also, If I chose the RK model I MUST have the TV location moved to a different corner so that it is viewable from the sofas AS WELL AS the upper bunk (family movie watching). For the life of me I can understand why it is oriented the other direction on the spec plans. Any idea if this would be a battle of wills? Also, any idea specifically why the diesel is not offered for 23.5 or 30 ft models?...just curious. It would be hard to make a 23.5 work for us anyway. I'm definately planning on the external insulation for the tanks, but is there anything else practical that I should be thinking about as far as tank enclosing/heating goes? Are all the lines sufficiently insulated? Hey that leads me to another question I have for you owners: (please keep
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #29 – December 16, 2003, 01:55:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31394Let me add another viewpoint on solar panels. We ordered one, not because we plan to do a lot of boondocking, but to keep the house batteries properly charged during long periods of inactivity. Unfortunately, we have not been out in the LD for over two months - it sits quietly in the driveway waiting for us. But I know that any time I go out there, the house batteries will be properly topped up and ready to go. Even in the overcast/rainy NW, the panel will draw a few tenths of an amp, which is sufficient to take care of phantom leakage. Of course, there is the additional advantage of extra electricity when boondocking. Works for us.--Al in Bremerton --2002 26.5 MB
Re: Mtnman's questions Reply #30 – December 16, 2003, 02:13:36 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31395"Any idea if a request to upgrade to the 8 ft3 fridge will fly?" Anything that would require a cabinetry redesign won't fly--and a bigger fridge is definitely in that category. Remember that LD is not a custom coach builder. They offer a choice of standard floorplans, and a few very limited customizing options within those plans. But they can't afford to redesign the cabinets or the chassis for each buyer--not without substantially increasing the price, which is low for a coach of this quality. (Compare with Born Free: ten to fifteen K more for a comparably equipped rig.) "I MUST have the TV location moved to a different corner so that it is viewable from the sofas AS WELL AS the upper bunk" Are you sure this is necessary? If you're ordering a 26.5' LD, it will come with a 15" LCD TV on a swivel arm that can be aimed almost anywhere--see tinyurl.com/ziru> for photos of the prototype. In any case, if you walk into the factory and say "I MUST have this moved," I think you're likely to diminish your chances of success. You might want to ask politely whether a change would be possible. "any idea specifically why the diesel is not offered for 23.5 or 30 ft models?" A better question is why it's offered at all, since its drawbacks in this particular application far outweigh its advantages. But rather than rehash that topic, I'll suggest you use the "Search archive" button in the website to look for the word 'diesel' and read the various opinions posted in the past. The consensus is strongly against, for pretty convincing reasons. "I'm definately planning on the external insulation for the tanks..." If you haven't already, I'd suggest reading up on this, again using the "Search archives" button. That insulation won't keep those tanks warm for very long if you're camped in below-freezing temperatures for more than a few days, and the downside is that with all that sprayed-on foam, it's a bitch to do any repairs or maintenance on the tanks or plumbing. Oh, and by the way, insulating the tanks won't keep the dump valves from freezing. I'd think long and hard before choosing this option."Are the valves and compartment insulated, etc." There is no compartment--unlike some larger rigs--so the valves are uninsulated, even if you pay for the tank insulation option. "Is the hose ready to go or do you have to get it from another compartment and then hook it up, etc." It's stored in a compartment under the body, so you must pull it out, connect it to the dump valve (a quarter turn locks it securely in place)...and then replace it when you're through. You'll wear rubber gloves while doing all this, so your hands will stay clean. Dumping sounds like a Big Deal when you haven't done it, but after a couple of times you'll find that it becomes an easy ten-minute routine. Just take it slowly and methodically and you won't have any problems. "I had no idea it would be so hard to pick a rv/motorhome. Every brand has certain things that I love and 'must have' yet no one offers everything together...... bummer." The same is true of cameras, cars, stereo systems...there are too many individual taste factors involved for you to ever find exactly what you want "off the shelf." The advantage you have with a motorhome is that unlike a camera, it can be customized and enhanced quite extensively...so you can get pretty much what you want if you're willing to work at it a little.--Andy Baird
Re: Solar Panels Reply #31 – December 16, 2003, 04:31:49 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31400QuoteCould someone please explain to me why I seem to be getting the impression that this ED guy or others actually try to talk you out of options. I can only share my experience with ordering options. I've only been to the factory twice. Once to place the order and once to pick up the LD. On the first visit I walked in the door with certain options that I KNEW I wanted, based on lots of research and questions and answers from this site. 2 solar panels were among that list. Ed never blinked or questioned it. There were a couple of other things that I was still debating about (for example: a tee for a water filter under the sink). When I asked Ed what he thought about adding the tee for the water filter, he shared his opinion that it wasn't necessary and explained why. (I will admit that this is one of the few things that I called after the order and added back.) There were also several other options that I was already leaning against ordering but I asked him his opinion just to verify that I wasn't missing something, and for each of those he was very candid with his thoughts and opinions. I never felt like he was discouraging at all, just very, very honest, very proud of his product, and perhaps just a little blunt. I thought it was actually a very refreshing change from dealing with the typical RV salesman.My overall feeling is that if you've done your homework and know you want an available option then he probably wouldn't even say a word, but if you're not sure and you ask for his opinion, then that is exactly what you'll get. At least that seemed to be my experience.Charles 2003 26.5 MB
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #32 – December 16, 2003, 08:11:21 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31406I have two of the 85W Solar Panels installed by LD, and wish I had more. And I don't even use a CPAP machine. Now if you don't plan on doing much boondocking, you probably don't need so much. Just like floor plans - to tow or not to tow - overhead bed vs entertainment center - or most importantly, which toilet paper to use - it's pretty much an individual decision based on how you think you'll use your RV.Sarah ~^_^~
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #33 – December 16, 2003, 11:18:41 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31409Aaaah, the solar panel discussion. Well, "billt9715," I wouldn't be without my TWO panels and am considering getting two more! It's not that I'm a power hog, it's just that I'm a fulltimer on a budget and I also live in my coach between June and December as the sun gets lower and lower and the skies get cloudier and cloudier. When push comes to shove, you just have to look at the bottom line and your camping style: I'm finding that without hookups, I need to start the engine or generator once a day to petrol-boost the batteries; in comparison, solar power is cheap. Think about your preferred destination (RV parks or the boonies). Be strong "billt9715" -- don't let Ed push you around! You can do it!! Just my nickel's worth (inflation being what it is).Lorna in sunny Santa Cruz
Re: Solar Panels Reply #34 – December 17, 2003, 09:11:42 am Yahoo Message Number: 31417What counsel does the group have about this?***Get both of them! If you do any boondocking at all, you won't regret it.Linda
Re: Solar Panels Reply #35 – December 17, 2003, 02:09:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31421"What counsel does the group have about this? 'Get both of them! If you do any boondocking at all, you won't regret it.' " I wholeheartedly agree. I have four panels and wish I had more. Over the years I have met plenty of people who wished they had more solar panels, but I've NEVER met anyone who wishes they had fewer! ;-) For the "counsel of the group," just use the "Search Archives" button on the website and search on the word 'solar'. You'll find plenty of endorsements for more and bigger panels.--Andy Baird
Solar Panels Reply #36 – December 17, 2003, 03:31:45 pm Yahoo Message Number: 31428I want to defend Ed at LD a bit. We had LD install dual solar panels on our 2003 26.5'RB that we will use for full-timing starting next fall. And I'm glad we did.But, having said that and having owned and used our LD for several months now, I can see where Ed's cautions against solar panels as some sort of automatic option or panacea could be well-taken in certain circumstances. So far, we've tended to keep moving in our LD, every day or two, and in those circumstances I think the recharge from the engine is more than adequate. Also, if you plan to camp most of the time with hook-ups then your reliance on battery power will be greatly reduced. Given the cost of solar panels, especially dual solar panels (about $2000 for the latter) it would make sense to stop and decide if you really need them, unless you're among the fortunate few for whom $2000 is small change. I think the arguments in favor of solar as part of your LD order are long-term (over two days?) boondocking, keeping the batteries properly charged when not in use, and to have a proper factory installation if you think you might want them later. The primary argument against them would be cost, especially if you plan to use the LD for weekend trips and vacations where you are mostly on the move. If you're in the latter category, I think you need to decide if this is the best use of your money vs. some other things that could be done with it.So Ed might be doing someone a favor by suggesting that they don't really need to spend the money if they will generally have hook-ups or be driving their LD on most days during their trips. He may also feel that simply starting and idling the engine for awhile when the batteries are low is a reasonable option. You can do that a lot for $2000. If I was ordering a LD for our old mode of travel (weekend trips and a couple of annual vacation road trips) and was on a tight budget, I might not order solar. Or I might order just one panel, primarily to keep the batteries charged when not in use and to augment things a bit during the "high sun" season when annual vacations tend to occur. We got the second one because we'll be using our LD without hook-ups in the winter in locations where we may stay put for several days. Even at that, we may have to run the motor once in awhile, which isn't so bad.Terry2003 26.5'RB Palo Alto, CA
Solar Panels Reply #37 – June 01, 2004, 05:41:12 pm Yahoo Message Number: 38072Hi Folks. Wannabe here. I'm assuming that for all of the discussions that the solar panel on theLD's are in a fixed position. Has anyone experimented with a tilting or rotating device for getting more out of the panels according to where the sun is? I have seen some rube goldberg set-ups at Quartzsite in the past?ThanksJK
Re: Solar Panels Reply #38 – June 01, 2004, 05:46:01 pm Yahoo Message Number: 38073QuoteHi Folks. Wannabe here. I'm assuming that for all of the discussions that the solar panel on theLD's are in a fixed position. Has anyone experimented with a tilting or rotating device for getting more out of the panels according to where the sun is? I have seen some rube goldberg set-ups at Quartzsite in the past?ThanksJK The LDEnhancements site has a very thorough file in the Photo area showing someone's raise and tilt system. LD themselves will not do this though.Dave "Gonnabe", 123 days into the wait
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #39 – June 01, 2004, 10:34:02 pm Yahoo Message Number: 38086. . . Has anyone experimented with a tilting or rotating device for getting more out of the panels according to where the sun is? . . . JK - I paid extra to have tilting gizmos put on my two 120W solars on Mz. Daisy (the Elder). What a pain in the toosh that was to climb up there with wrench, etc. to put them up and down. I did that one time, period. So on the new Lazy Daze, there are no tilts. I'm sure that it increases your input, but I just am to lazy butted to deal with it. If I climb up on the roof, I want to be there for some fun reason like watching a sunset or some hot air balloons leaving the earth for the outer limits. (Albuquerque Balloon Festival is coming up this September folks.)YMMV - Sarah Albuquerque/Placitas[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #40 – June 02, 2004, 08:05:27 am Yahoo Message Number: 38093(Albuquerque Balloon Festival is coming upQuotethis September folks.)YMMV - Sarah Albuquerque/Placitas Kristine and I LOVED ABQ on our visit a couple years ago. It is certainly on the trip schedule to get there during the balloon fiesta the next time through!!!Dave, Gonnabe, 124 days into "the wait"
Re: Solar Panels Reply #41 – June 03, 2004, 12:07:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 38154QuoteHi Folks. Wannabe here. I'm assuming that for all of the discussions that the solar panel on theLD's are in a fixed position. Has anyone experimented with a tilting or rotating device for getting more out of the panels according to where the sun is? I have seen some rube goldberg set-ups at Quartzsite in the past?ThanksJK JK,The pictures Dave mentioned our from my setup. They are controlled from the inside, unlike Sarah's old setup. The pictures show everything you need to know about them. The last time I dry camped, I was able to have my batteries fully charged by noon. And it was a cloudy day. Don't know exactly how discharged the batteries were, but we had been watching sat tv for a few hours, used the microwave (from an inverter), had lights on, furnace going off and on all night. So it wasn't like they were near full in the morning.BTW, Rube Goldberg was not present when my system was devised. :-)-Victor
Solar Panels Reply #42 – October 11, 2004, 11:48:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 44671Can someone please tell me what brands of solar panels and charge controllers LD is using? It appears that an 85W panel with controller and wiring can be purchased for about half of LD's solar panel option cost if $1100. Is it worth it to spend over $500 extra to have LD install the panel or is LD using more expensive/higher quality panels?Thanks in advance for yor feedback.Thomas
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #43 – October 11, 2004, 12:10:17 pm Yahoo Message Number: 44672Can someone please tell me what brands of solar panels and charge controllers LD is using? It appears that an 85W panel with controller and wiring can be purchased for about half of LD's solar panel option cost if $1100. Is it worth it to spend over $500 extra to have LD install the panel or is LD using more expensive/higher quality panels?Our 2004 LD has a BP-85 solar panel and a Heliotrope RV-30S charge controller. Remember that part of the cost LD charges for the solar panel(s) is for reinforcing the roof where the panels are attached.Linda & Earl 2004 23.5' Red TK From the Elks Club in Lodi, CA
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #44 – October 11, 2004, 12:19:19 pm Yahoo Message Number: 44673. . . It appears that an 85W panel with controller and wiring can be purchased for about half of LD's solar panel option cost if $1100 . . .I'm going to agree with Linda and Earl on this one. For me, it was worth it to have the factory instal the solar-especially with their reinforcement. And I know that if ANYTHING goes wrong with the system, Lazy Daze will stand behind their work - no questions asked. I have great confidence in the Lazy Daze factory, and am willing to fork over the extra bucks.Having said that, there sure are some very competent people on this list who have successfully installed solars after-market. I guess it's just another one of those personal decisions.Sarah[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Solar Panels Reply #45 – October 11, 2004, 01:41:31 pm Yahoo Message Number: 44684"Is it worth it to spend over $500 extra to have LD install the panel" "Having said that, there sure are some very competent people on this list who have successfully installed solars after-market. I guess it's just another one of those personal decisions"ThomasI'm one of those people who have installed and modified a multitude of things in and on our LD. It is never as simple or easy as it looks. Whatever LD charges for installation, you can be sure that is done correctly and the charges are fair. It is much more difficult to retrofit the solar panel wiring and, as Sarah said, the roof reinforcements will not be present. If you are going to spring for the cost of an LD, get everything you want from the Factory. If you want to spend less, buy a Winnebago.Larry
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #46 – October 11, 2004, 08:57:03 pm Yahoo Message Number: 44706Sarah Blackwood sarahsgonervn@...> wrote:Having said that, there sure are some very competent people on this list who have successfully installed solars after-market. I guess it's just another one of those personal decisions.Sarah I think the factory install for solar is a very good idea. The extra money I would bet is for the extra reinforcement for the roof which you don't get with an out side installer. Steve Terrell[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Solar Panels Reply #47 – October 12, 2004, 12:39:04 pm Yahoo Message Number: 44735Thank you all for your feedback on the solar panels. I think I am convinced that spending the extra dollars for an LD factory installment is a wise investment.Thomas[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Solar Panels Reply #48 – March 07, 2003, 11:49:49 am Yahoo Message Number: 19602Laurie,I have 2 55w panels that were mounted by someone other than the factory. They do a great job and keep my batteries charged, even with my cover on it. The wires were routed down one of the vent lines like someone else mentioned. Mine are also directional, which required a hole to be made through the roof, to accommodate the handle to rotate & tilt them. They were mounted next to and slightly behind the escape hatch, on the passenger side. If you look in my photo album "Victor's 91 MB" and look at the photos of the front passenger side, you can kind of see them hovering over the roof. Mine happen not to be flush with the roof. I don't remember what company installed them at this time. I'll check at lunch to see if I can find out.Good luck,-Victor 91 26.5 MB
Re: [Life With A Lazy Daze RV] Re: Solar Panels Reply #49 – August 10, 2003, 05:42:58 pm Yahoo Message Number: 25506Humor - is best served with a - :-)Tim[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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