Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more January 11, 2023, 03:32:19 pm Now we are towing we wanted a rear camera to keep track of the toad and to help with lane changes (especially as we move up to a 31’ plus toad).We looked at a lot of videos and reviews and asked some people about theirs.There are a rear camera / backup cameras, side cameras, and dash cams.Tons of install videos out there but most do not clearly show what you see while driving.One guy (vortexradar.com) is doing a very good reviews on dash cams and the ability to read license plates (used for hit and run accidents - more useful for big city dwellers where hitting parked cars happens lots). And for accidents.The technology for reading license plates is limited but slowly improving.However most people said they never used this despite many years of dashcam use.I found one good one on the value of side cameras https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvALBqqsS4.They added value on backing up his long trailer but just a couple times, most important one when pouring rain so no one had to get out and look.They can also be useful to make sure you don’t swing the back of RV into something in tight spaces.Another strong value of side cameras is to see your tires in comparison to the white lines on the road. This can be very useful for narrow roads especially when there is no shoulder. Several install videos talked about pointing the side but they didn’t have video clearly showing this in their monitors. We may add side cameras at least on the passenger side sooner rather than later as this could be very helpful where we will be traveling.I finally found a good one on a toad car and changing lanes. That is what we were looking for. They put a rear camera on the RV and another one at the back of what they were towing (caravan). And they have great footage of what you see on the cameras. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WP1dTmQN7_cWe looked at 360 (birdseye) cameras but these gave the fisheye view so it was very distorted. I could see this being useful when moving slowly (backing up or in a tight spot like checking tail swing in a gas station), but we have the second person get out and look for those situations. There are “350” non Birdseye cameras being advertised, these are really a front, back, and two side cameras. Not a true 360 view but covers most areas depending how you mount your side camera (to generally see the view, to see your rear tires, or some combination).We saw one video on a very good 360 camera that had the cameras at one location but that meant you had obstacles in your line if sight (eg if attached on your windshield the rear view only saw as if your eyes were looking that way such as the inside walls of your RV. And the resulting picture was panning around.Dash cams with a rear view camera at that same location to see inside your car seemed to be gaining popularity - seeing your passengers and maybe your kitchen area (confirming your fridge freezer didn’t open or what fell down and made that crash). Note: I am not including discussions on:- camera resolution (1080, 4k, fake 4k - stretch the picture while losing clarity, and more) - camera mounting positions (rear camera mounted high, low, or at a middle height, side cameras pointed at the rear tires or straight back seeing a long view - or a combo)- dash camera or not- cameras ability to capture license plates and clear faces of people and the technology changes for this- monitor mounting positions including permanently mounted or easy to take/hide/move ones- wired vs wireless (can affect lag and picture but technology is getting better for wireless)- features for better night vision- viewing angle of camera (this plus camera height affects greatly what you see)- split screen vs push button to change cameras- replaces existing light (but restricts view direction) -motion detection for security when not driving- ability to store video (SD chipVs on cloud) (and if loops or not)- ability to have backup guiding lines There is a lot of info and choices in the above topics and I suggest finding some good videos for this especially as things change over time. We decided for now to do the rear camera on the RV and another in the toad. We also (just) decided to do a side camera on the passenger side as we plan to do narrow roads in the next few months.When we get a longer RV we will add the second side camera if we have not already done that.We are still thinking over a dash cam - we might wait till technology improves or decide to just add one in case of accidents. I decided not to include what we bought - there are so many variations and things are changing so it is better to set your criteria for features then go check reviews for cameras that have those features (and we will change this over time).I found little info on cameras in this forum so I am passing this along for others to use.Feel free to add your experiences. 3 Likes
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #1 – January 11, 2023, 06:10:06 pm Excellent info. Thank you! I’ll refer back to this when we go this route. Jason
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #2 – January 11, 2023, 08:41:04 pm Report back when you have installed and used the system for a while, interested to see how it works out!
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #3 – January 11, 2023, 10:09:14 pm A bird's eye camera system would be a nice upgrade. After twenty years and over 100,000 miles of towing Jeeps, I don't see much of a need for a camera at the rear of the toad.Rear cameras can be aimed to see the rear of the toad, useful when passing trucks or getting a general idea of what is behind the toad.It wouldn't be useful for backing into a site since you can not back up a flat towed vehicle.You also need to decide where to mount the monitor.Backup camera & monitor | FlickrLarry
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #4 – January 12, 2023, 09:30:04 am Larry, we looked at the 360 degree cameras (birdseye) but they were that fish eye technology that distorted the view. And what was seen on the monitor was not the same as what we see looking in rear view mirrors so not something we could quickly glance at while driving.Note: Sellers that include side cameras as well as front and back cameras call them 360’degree but this is not birdseyeView.However I think for backing up and maybe for slow driving in tight spaces (eg watching tail swing in a gas station) they would be very useful if that was someone’s goal.Since we wanted cameras for driving, not tight spaces or backing up (we are good at backing up and if it is not something simple and clear we have a second person outside), we decided not to go that way. We may add side cameras for tight spaces - they give that look of rear mirror views that our eyes are used to rather than the distorted fish eye from above look so we would like that better.Oh, we did see some nice 360 cameras with a regular view (not the fish eye distorted view) but it was one location (what you saw from that spot which meant you saw the inside of your LD and didn’t seem what was outside the LD “through walls etc.”. And an inside and outside camera view on one camera is becoming more popular. But these are better suited for a car where you can see outside in all directions from your rear mirror/dash/window location pretty well (if your car is not stuffed full with things / people). But some people really like it to keep an eye on the passengers (and you could set one up to see what that crash was as you were driving - something fell, or keep an eye on the fridge/freezer doors). Again seeing actual videos of what people see helped (though funny enough people tend to do install videos and just show the camera active but the camera monitor is so small in their video shot it is impossible to see what they see). I don’t remember the link for a good 360 camera “what the monitor was showing” video though I did find one.Larry you said.. (I am paraphrasing) That in your experience you didn’t see a need for a camera in a toad saying your rear view camera showed you enough…. We liked the much better view with the view from behind the towed added, but that is a personal choice and the nice partIs cameras can be moved. Since we expect to grow into cameras used for accidents being able to move cameras around (wireless was a requirement for us and technology for these has and continues to improve), we can make changes if we want.And sorry if I didn’t make it clear but backing an RV up with a toad attached is good to do (I have read of rare exceptions with specific tow equipment doing a straight backup f for a very short distance). I didn’t address this since our goals (stated) were not backing up use). Thanks to Larry for pointing this out.A last point I remembered while discussing 360 view cameras..A strong use for side cameras is to watch where your tires are in relation to the white line - that can be very useful in the many areas that have narrow roads (especially when combined with no shoulders). I will add that to the original post.
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #5 – January 12, 2023, 10:59:07 am I added some additional info to the first post including other camera feature topics to look at which I was not including (several are a long post by themselves and changing technology).
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #6 – January 12, 2023, 12:26:09 pm How are two or more cameras going to be displayed? Will multiple monitors be used or a single monitor with split screen views or will you manually switch between cameras?I would want to make it as simple as possible to use and not be distracted by too many images or having to intentionally switch views.I love having the rear camera, leaving it on whenever driving. It is even better at night when the infrared illuminators are active, good for backing into sites at night( with the toad detached).Our side mirrors have both flat mirrors and a good size convex mirrors that show the edge lines and small cars sneaking up on the passenger side. They are the best mirrors of any vehicle I have owned...as long as the sun is out. An interesting new side mirror would have infrared cameras that convert the mirrors to monitors when it is dark. FYI-- If you want to try backing your toad any distance, while connected, Roadmaster makes a steering-centering device (Exact Center) that actually works in many situations. I gave one a try in our Jeep and it does work much better than without it. It caused other issues with the Jeep's solid front axle.Roadmaster Inc. - Tow Bars, Braking Systems & RV AccessoriesLarry
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #7 – January 12, 2023, 03:44:38 pm Quote from: Larry W - January 12, 2023, 12:26:09 pmHow are two or more cameras going to be displayed? Will multiple monitors be used or a single monitor with split screen views or will you manually switch between cameras?I would want to make it as simple as possible to use and not be distracted by too many images or having to intentionally switch views.I love having the rear camera, leaving it on whenever driving. It is even better at night when the infrared illuminators are active, good for backing into sites at night( with the toad detached).Our side mirrors have both flat mirrors and a good size convex mirrors that show the edge lines and small cars sneaking up on the passenger side. They are the best mirrors of any vehicle I have owned...as long as the sun is out. An interesting new side mirror would have infrared cameras that convert the mirrors to monitors when it is dark. FYI-- If you want to try backing your toad any distance, while connected, Roadmaster makes a steering centering device the actually does work in many situations. I gave one a try in our Jeep and it does work much better than without it. I caused other issues with the Jeep's solid front axle.Roadmaster Inc. - Tow Bars, Braking Systems & RV AccessoriesLarryLarry, most monitors let you do a split screen from 1-4 cameras (A few go higher). You choose how many to display and easily change this. Specs need to be read as some do only 1 view and need a button pushed to see different views - for me that is taking my eyes away from the road too long (couple seconds).I now glance between the front of the road to each side mirror (2 each side on the LD) and in the car also the rear mirror (I am a big mirror user in all conditions).So glancing at different spots on the screen is the same but I would have to get used to it.We have two mirrors each side of the LD we use a lot and third on the passenger side only useful for really tall people (well over 6’ - not us).We want something on the passenger side rear tires and our mirrors don’t see under the tire cover to see those side tires.The video above on side cameras has a very brief shot and I can see his tires but he has a trailer and no bump out above the tires. A caravan member recently showed us a mirror mounted side camera (both sides of the LD) and that would probably have a good angle to see what we want to see (and power has to be gotten to the mirrors). We would have to get some and play with them. We are going to see if we can do another mirror and if not check out a side camera.
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #8 – January 12, 2023, 05:55:37 pm "If you want to try backing your toad any distance, while connected,..."I've tried it and with the exception of very short distances (5 feet or less) it just don't work! The culprits here are your towd's front wheels, they act like dolly or castor wheels which want to move in whatever direction force or friction takes them.Backing a semi rig or a long travel trailer is a piece of cake in comparison!
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #9 – January 12, 2023, 06:35:04 pm Yes, nearly impossible! My dune buggy could be pushed, mostly supported by larger tires in the back, in a straight'ish line by the towbar, slowly on dirt. Not so well on pavement. As Steve said the front tires caster around and get in the way. RonB
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #10 – August 23, 2023, 06:36:50 pm Anyone take any action on the side view cameras as yet?
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #11 – August 23, 2023, 10:08:32 pm Quote from: airbusguy - August 23, 2023, 06:36:50 pmAnyone take any action on the side view cameras as yet?My wife’s car came with four cameras that stitch them together for a 360 overhead view, quite nice.So when I upgraded my stereo head (display), made sure it was capable of displaying four cameras. Plan was to install a pair of side cameras, but after driving 20,000 miles, I don’t feel the need anymore, but it sure would be cool. 1 Likes
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #12 – August 28, 2023, 07:38:48 pm Hi Dave,Which stereo did you buy for the camera functions?I also want to upgrade the Sony unit that came with my 2016 to a camera display option.
Re: Cameras - rear / backup, side, dash and more Reply #13 – August 29, 2023, 12:48:46 am Quote from: airbusguy - August 28, 2023, 07:38:48 pmHi Dave,Which stereo did you buy for the camera functions?I also want to upgrade the Sony unit that came with my 2016 to a camera display option. Kenwood DNR1057XR, supports up to 4 cameras. 1 Likes