polybutylene piping 1988? January 27, 2023, 11:07:04 am I have a leaking Tee fitting under kitchen sink. Am I better off replacing ALL of it or trying to continually chase down leaks as they occur in the future?Mine is mid-kitchen/front bath so at least all piping is concentrated in a small area.If you have done a re-pipe, I appreciate your insights
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #1 – January 27, 2023, 01:00:14 pm Hi Dazed; If you have a 1988 'TKB, a lot depends on how good you are at replacing plumbing. I think my '99 TK has pretty much the same floor plan as you. One leak in a 35 year old motorhome, probably indicates more leaks in the near future. Internal leaks can be a real headache! If it were me, I'd try to decide why there is a leak under the sink, and if it looks like the piping is disintegrating, might as well start now. RonB 2 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #2 – January 27, 2023, 02:14:04 pm RonB: It has a small drip (when pump is on) at a "Tee" and I really dont want to wiggle stuff around less Icompletely destroy the connection. It may have been jostled by previous ownerstuffing things in that cupboard. Probably pretty brittle after 35 years. What diameter is the PB used in '88?
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #3 – January 27, 2023, 02:39:29 pm I agree with Ron about making a choice based on if you have general handyperson skills and feel comfortable with plumbing. If so, especially if you plan to keep your LD for a while, consider redoing all (or all you can easily get to. Like everything else it is tight spaces, but like you say if many things are in one spot it can make things easier and it is a good time to add in some strategic shut off valves or upgrade faucets, etc. Maybe even consider some added insulation on the hot water lines. If you pay someone to do this it can get pricey.Fittings (Ts, elbows, etc.) are the weak areas in plumbing so the failure points. I am not sure that I agree with Ron if one failed others may be close behind (I think I read that into what he wrote) but I would check your other fittings to get an idea.The way to go with replacement materials is pex with crimp on fitting attachments (not the inflating pressure ones) - in RVs, from from all I have read.I Highly recommend getting access to a plumbing supply house like Ferguson (typically only sell to professionals but maybe you have a friend who works in the construction business or is a property manager and would open an account with them). They sell much higher quality products at these stores than the home improvement stores like Upanor - huge step up from what they sell in the home improvement stores. You can tell the difference in quality just by touch. I am sure you will violate all warranties for all plumbing parts by putting them in an RV so don’t worry about that part, I would not even say that is what it is for.I also highly recommend learning a little about designing a pex installation as I see so many installs (including LD) that undo the powerful positive aspects of pex by treating it like unflexable pipes. Upanor has some great components that will keep the pipe close to walls and turning corners (vs putting in fittings all over - leak prone spots).If you decide to do a quick one spot fix, I give a caution about shark bite and gator - push on fittings. They are made for modern plumbing sizes and older (and non copper or pex) pipes don’t typically have the exact OD (outside diameter. This can mean the new fitting doesn’t fit as well (I have had them leak with 1950s copper pipes). I would recommend a leak detector in that spot. Some people simply put paper towels down and check them regularly as they will show even a few drops of water. 2 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #4 – January 27, 2023, 02:52:00 pm I don't have anything to say about the feasibility of replacing PB plumbing. But in case you're not familiar with it, it's worth mentioning a product that can be a good emergency fix: Rescue Tape.This self-fusing silicone tape works differently than adhesive-backed tapes--in fact, it has no adhesive. You stretch it as you wrap it around a leaky area, and it instantly fuses into a solid silicone rubber mass. If and when you need to remove it, slitting it with a sharp blade will cause the whole thing to come off cleanly with no residue left behind. I have used Rescue Tape on plumbing that remained leak-free for years thereafter.If it were my rig, I think I'd wrap that leaky tee in Rescue Tape, at least while I considered what I wanted to do. Yes, the rest of your old PB pipes may be ready to go, and you may be forced to undertake extensive plumbing work. But Rescue Tape will stop that leak for now, and it's inexpensive and easy to apply. 5 Likes As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #5 – January 27, 2023, 03:03:32 pm Andy I just saw something similar at Home Depot and grabbed a roll because it looked very useful. They are coming out with all sorts of new tapes these days.I will try to remember to grab the name off the one I got and post a link. 1 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #6 – January 27, 2023, 06:27:37 pm Hi Jane and Dazed; Rescue tape is handy to have around for many uses besides just plumbing. Chlorine is very active, that is why it disinfects so well. The side effect to this is over time it attacks the insides of polybutylene. 25 years is a standard lifetime mentioned in many sources. PEX is cross linked (the 'X') Poly Ethylene. PB was phased out after about '95, and replaced with PEX, a more durable and resistant pipe. A bit more flexible too in my opinion. With Lazy Daze a bit behind, I can't tell what my circa '99 piping is. The parts I can see, don't seem to have any visible marking. A hazy white, translucent, and pretty stiff material, 1/2" I.D. assembled in straight runs with elbows and Tees. It may be PB. It does have metal fittings (looks like brass) and band clamps over the fittings. Swaged as a technique, not removable except to cut it off. The pipes I can see appear to be in good shape for now. Previous lawsuits about the use of PB in housing, IMHO were more about failure of the plastic acetal elbows, Tees and fittings. https://www.pbpsa.com/uploads/files/resources/pbpsa-pb1-faq-en-2.pdf offers some reading material. and this:https://cgains.com/assets/documents/Polybutylene_vs_PEX.pdf RonB 1 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #7 – January 27, 2023, 10:55:37 pm I just had the same type of leak, at the Tee, and was able to fix it using those good but pricey,Shark Bite fittings along with some new PEX tubing. Just make sure you buy the fittings that have one end compatible with Polybutylene tubing that is found in older rigs( I own a 1990). I was able to fix the leak using 1 Tee and 2 couplings on mine. Good luck to you! I can post some pictures if needed. 1 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #8 – January 28, 2023, 04:40:16 am Thanks Jon; I took a few things apart and did find the markings on my water pipes. I have PEX type A. The pipes are rigid and not meant to bend. Just slight bends. A lightweight version of copper. ASTM 877. The type 'B' PEX is more flexible and can be bent more. RonB
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #9 – January 28, 2023, 08:52:25 am I use Watts Push Lock plastic fittings with bushings and modern PEX tube to make repairs and Modifications on my '88MB.My rig has always been in the warmer California and likely never treated with bleach, a common enemy of old PEX. I always maintain the tank with treated City water. No illness yet. 1 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #10 – January 28, 2023, 10:50:29 am Quote from: jalamaJon - January 27, 2023, 10:55:37 pm I just had the same type of leak, at the Tee, and was able to fix it using those good but pricey,Shark Bite fittings along with some new PEX tubing. Just make sure you buy the fittings that have one end compatible with Polybutylene tubing that is found in older rigs( I own a 1990). I was able to fix the leak using 1 Tee and 2 couplings on mine. Good luck to you! I can post some pictures if needed.I have used sharkbites before (pricey indeed) and pvc and sweated copper. PEX is a 'new' medium for me,(even though Europeans have used it for decades) The force and jostling trying to get a sharkbite to seal probably will cause more leaks in this old/brittle PB plumbing. Im going the Rescue Tape route since I have some already, and will tackle the entire project this spring/summer.On a side note, JalamaJon, I grew up on the Gaviota coast not far from Jalama.Thanks for all your helpful suggestions. 1 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #11 – January 28, 2023, 08:26:16 pm This is what I saw at Home Depot - similar to what Andy posted. Liked infesting and though I didn’t have a use I grabbed one as it looked useful to have around.The Home Depot Logo
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #12 – January 29, 2023, 10:39:44 am Wikipedia describes this type of tape as "self-amalgamating tape" and mentions many varieties. Rescue Tape was probably not the first such tape, but as far as I know it was the first to be widely marketed to consumers. In other words, it's not the only brand that will work; it's just the one that I've used and I'm familiar with. The tape that Jane found at Home Depot is probably just as good. 🙂A couple of tips: first, you must stretch this tape as you apply it; otherwise it won't fuse to itself. As with many such tapes, maintaining a 50% overlap when making a spiral wrap is a good idea. (In fact, the military use a version of this tape that has a colored line down the middle to make it easy to do this. They call it "centerline tape.") And second, do your best to stretch it all the way out to the very end — the part that you're pulling on as you wrap it — because otherwise the end may not adhere properly, and you can end up with a little tag end sticking up. That won't stop the rest of the tape from adhering to itself, but it can be annoying. 2 Likes
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #13 – January 29, 2023, 10:58:27 am Quote from: Andy Baird - January 29, 2023, 10:39:44 amstretch it all the way out to the very end — the part that you're pulling on as you wrap it — because otherwise the end may not adhere properly, and you can end up with a little tag end sticking up. That won't stop the rest of the tape from adhering to itself, but it can be annoying.Good point, Andy...I usually dont cut off the end until wrap is completed. It is ubiquitous nowadays-even Harbor "Fright" has their own version. https://www.harborfreight.com/10-ft-x-1-in-self-bonding-super-tape-61414.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12169269821&campaignid=12169269821&utm_content=117203740499&adsetid=117203740499&product=61414&store=200&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz9ieBhCIARIsACB0oGLRIPfne2-ak86kmuqEXHe0tIGIHoi68xoOFFdMYzbmNWigqMgVl3caAuBuEALw_wcB
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #14 – January 29, 2023, 02:09:05 pm Here's one I recently bought and used to good effect!X-Treme Tape TPE-X36ZLB Silicone Rubber Self Fusing Tape, 1" x 36', Triangula... As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: polybutylene piping 1988? Reply #15 – January 29, 2023, 08:08:53 pm 1" X 36'. That should last a lifetime!
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