Battleborn heated... October 17, 2021, 10:41:42 am Currently just in the distant planning stages for a battery upgrade to lithium batteries, probably the Battleborn, since reviews have been very good and my research shows they would be a good fit with no other system upgrades to my current setup. However, my interest would be in their self-heating model, since I intend using the current battery box with only some additional insulation. That model is pretty new, so I wonder if anyone has had experience in the function and reliability or seen a performance review? Thanks.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #1 – October 17, 2021, 11:34:30 am I'd be interested in knowing how much power these batteries uses when heating themselves. I have to admit that the idea of sacrificing battery power to heat batteries is somewhat offputting. I have a couple of Battle Born batteries in my current (Airstream) rig, but I mounted them under the bed where they wouldn't get too cold or too hot. I've had them for about a year, and am happy with them so far.
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #2 – October 17, 2021, 11:51:31 am Here are some youtube videos that should help.Lithium Battleborn heated batteryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHKGDWvkP0Battery Cold Weather Performancehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGJc0OXtoXoBattery comparisonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy3hga_P5YY 2 Likes
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #3 – October 17, 2021, 12:12:51 pm Not too concerned about the power consumed, because it would be easy to install a switch in the enable line. The batteries only need to be heated for charging below freezing, not when idle or in discharge. They also will not be heated above 35 F.Steve
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #4 – October 17, 2021, 12:16:03 pm Our Battle Borns are under the rearward dinette seat. No heating needed. I believe it was Will Prowse that mentioned that there are alternative ways to maintain the lithium batteries that are exposed to outdoor temps. https://youtu.be/m1T7S1J-ZxsI currently use our old battery bay for our Macerator and hoses. I do not believe that lithium batts are plug and play. There are modifications that must be made to the charging system to protect the lithium batts. KentKent
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #5 – October 17, 2021, 01:13:17 pm Quote from: Kent Heckethorn - October 17, 2021, 12:16:03 pmI do not believe that lithium batts are plug and play. There are modifications that must be made to the charging system to protect the lithium batts. The Battleborn batteries are designed for easy integration into existing systems. After extensive dialog with Battleborn and Morningstar (charge controller), it appears both my PD4645 and Sunsaver MPPT15 are compatible.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #6 – October 17, 2021, 01:59:34 pm Quote from: bsbets - October 17, 2021, 11:51:31 amHere are some youtube videos that should help.Thank you for the links! Information overload but very informative. Reevaluating our next steps for the 12V system.Charles
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #7 – October 17, 2021, 02:31:09 pm As soon as I get back from the AIBF, I plan to get two of he SOK 206 Amp at 12.6v. They are about the size of the T-145 batteries. ( not the Marine waterproof version that is larger) Won't need to add water. Enough room for insulation against the door, and underneath for a heater pad.(each, powered by the solar directly). After Abqq, caught at Flagstaff in snow storm and 22F overnight. So it can happen. RonB 3 Likes
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #8 – October 17, 2021, 02:45:14 pm I'm still using flooded T 105's. I can now afford to get AGM when these need replaced but there is no way I can spring for Lithium any time soon.While I'd love to have the new tech, my old tech works just fine for my needs.
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #9 – October 17, 2021, 04:26:38 pm It’s possible to add vents into the existing battery box to provide interior heat into the box.That, along with insulating and sealing the exterior door, should keep the lithium’s happy.What is the price difference between the two batteries.Larry
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #10 – October 17, 2021, 06:21:04 pm "...my old tech works just fine for my needs."JOTAIf it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #11 – October 18, 2021, 01:33:41 am If it ain’t broke, … only upgrade for big improvements.I replaced my 220 AH (Amp-Hour) pair of AGMs with two 100 AH Battleborn LiFePOs. This offers a couple of big improvements, albeit at much higher cost.Big improvements as I see it:1) The AGMs are realistically usable down to 50% charge (which I have to watch out for myself), which is 110 AH. The Lithiums are usable down to 0% charge (and then turn off to protect themselves), which is 200 AH.2) The Lithiums can accept far higher charge rates, and so can make use of more generator output or shore input current.3) The Lithiums can endure many more charge cycles, which promises longer life. This offsets some of the much higher cost.The costs/differences I see:1) Lithiums are about $900 each. AGMs are a couple hundred $ each.2) The converter and solar charger should have their parameters adjusted for Lithium. If your solar charger is too old, you might need to upgrade it for a couple hundred $.3) I had to build a new wood frame into my battery compartment to securely mount the Lithiums, as they are different dimensions than the AGMs, and the connectors are placed slightly differently. I have the Lithiums stacked on their side, with the tops towards the compartment door. Some people relocate the batteries, which sidesteps the issue of fitting them into the battery compartment.Items 2 and 3 above make me wonder what the “drop-in” claim is referring to.
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #12 – October 18, 2021, 01:52:34 am 'Drop-in' claim is that properly chosen LiFePO4 batteries will fit physically, and don't always need extensive electrical changes. Really 'smart' BMS's can disconnect and prevent over charging, over discharging, low temperature shut off, internal cell equalizing and such. My recent PD 4655 converter has a jumper to increase it's charging voltage for Li batteries. The SB 3000i output voltage can also be changed. Victron Cyrix-Li relay isolator for the engine alternator can help to shut off power to the Li's while driving. My '99 TK battery box is a one piece ABS box. Removal of the slide out tray mechanism should allow the install of two SOK-206 AH batteries in that box. (412 total) DC to DC converters can also transfer power from the various sources: converter, alternator, solar into the LI's. I don't plan to utilize the fast charge or fast discharge features. I'm more focused on the depth of discharge feature, number of cycles, and lighter battery part. RonB
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #13 – October 18, 2021, 02:27:37 am Quote from: Keith Sweitzer - October 18, 2021, 01:33:41 am3) I had to build a new wood frame into my battery compartment to securely mount the Lithiums, as they are different dimensions than the AGMs, and the connectors are placed slightly differently. I have the Lithiums stacked on their side, with the tops towards the compartment door. Some people relocate the batteries, which sidesteps the issue of fitting them into the battery compartment.Items 2 and 3 above make me wonder what the “drop-in” claim is referring to.Perhaps you used the wrong model. This heated one is a 'drop-in', but with the terminals on the front:100Ah 12V GC2 LiFePO4 Heated Battery Kit – 1 Battery | Battle Born BatteriesSteve
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #14 – October 18, 2021, 06:07:57 pm "I do not believe that lithium batts are plug and play. "It depends upon who you listen to, but I tend to agree. I've done a lot of research over the past five years, installed several sets of Victron LiFePO4 batteries, and learned a lot about the requirements of this type. I've also heard a couple of interviews with the president of Battle Born. His "Don't worry about it, they'll be fine" attitude makes me a little uncomfortable. I believe that he knows his stuff, but the way Battle Born promotes its batteries is that you can just drop them in anywhere you were previously using a lead-acid battery. I don't believe it's that simple... at least, not if you want to get a decent lifespan out of them. And given the very high cost of any LiFePO4 battery, you definitely want them to last as long as possible.Don't get me wrong--I have a pair of Battle Born 100 Ah LiFePO4 batteries now, and they're doing fine so far. But I made sure they're in moderate temperatures and are getting the charging regimen that any LiFePO4 system needs for best performance and longest life.In short, Battle Born batteries are good, but they're not magic. And I'm skeptical about "drop in" LiFePO4 claims. 1 Likes
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #15 – October 18, 2021, 11:13:25 pm I purchased a 2 pak of LionEnergy Safari UT lithium Iron Phosphate batteries from Costco.Com about a year ago. Cost was $1300 for the pair. They work great and fit into the battery compartment’s slide out tray with no modifications, other than having to purchase a longer cable to connect the 2 neg. battery posts.Roger
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #16 – October 22, 2021, 03:22:11 am Slide-out tray? The MB does not have this. Maybe drop in happens for some models, but not for others?
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #17 – October 22, 2021, 06:34:34 am The slide out tray was eliminated when Lazy Daze switched from wet cell batteries to AGM batteries in 2010. My 2010 had the AGM's w/o the tray.
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #18 – October 22, 2021, 08:04:19 am Quote from: Mike Coachman - October 22, 2021, 06:34:34 amThe slide out tray was eliminated when Lazy Daze switched from wet cell batteries to AGM batteries around 2009. For what’s worth, our 2009 MB has a slide-out tray. Maybe it was with years 2010 or later?
Re: Battleborn heated... Reply #19 – October 22, 2021, 10:01:55 am Quote from: Larry W - October 17, 2021, 04:26:38 pmIt’s possible to add vents into the existing battery box to provide interior heat into the box.That, along with insulating and sealing the exterior door, should keep the lithium’s happy.What is the price difference between the two batteries.LarryIf I may <smile> this is an older post on the cost/benefit ratio of various battery types..... I'll assume today a few years latter that lithium are tad cheaper. As a purely editorial comment the larger point to me is how long are you planning to honestly keep your RV. If it's more then five years then lithium is the cheapest. <smile> if no then protect your wallet.Battery type costsglen
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