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Can I install a inverter?
Have anyone install a inverter to make microwave and 120v plug outlet working when not running the generator or when not using AC connection? If you did, please advise what size of inverter I should buy? Where did you place the inverter? How to connect to the system?
2016 Mid Bath

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #1
I used a 2000 watt Xantrex pure sine inverter as a whole house system.
Plugged my shore power into that using a 15 amp plug.
With my little solar system, it put too much strain on my 2 T 105 batteries to use the microwave for longer than a 30 second blast. I did like having the 120v outlets all working so I could plug my laptop computer and other low wattage appliances in.
It lasted about 8 years before the inverter started acting up, and finally quit.
I've since gone another direction and no longer do that. Seemed a waste when I needed the generator to use the microwave or my toaster oven.
For wiring, I used welding cable and went from the batteries to a big 250 amp fuse and then to the inverter.
I kept the wiring run as short as possible, it was about 3 feet from batteries to inverter.
Jota
96 23.5 FL

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #2

A few of us have installed (or have had installed) whole-house inverter systems. It's a major project.

First, as Jota pointed out, the factory standard (225 amp-hour) batteries are insufficient to power the microwave oven for a useful length of time, so batteries will need to be upgraded to at least 400 or more amp-hours. Also, lead-acid batteries, including AGMs, are poorly suited to massive current drains, so LiFePO4 batteries would be a much better way to go.

How massive? Your 1,000 watt rated microwave oven draws about 1,500 watts when operating, so a 2,000 W inverter would be needed. That's 12.5 amps of 120 VAC. Powering that microwave through an inverter with 90% efficiency, you'd be drawing about 140 amps at 12 V from your batteries. And in fact, that's what I saw when running my Lazy Daze's microwave from its whole-house inverter.

Bear in mind that you also need a way to replace the power you took out of your batteries. I had 600 watts of solar panels, but I had to watch my charge level closely... or run my generator to recharge.

If you were to do this kind of whole-house installation, you'd want to mount your batteries as close to the inverter as possible, to minimize voltage drop and hence wasted power. In my midbath, I put two AGM batteries in the regular outside battery compartment, and three more under the refrigerator, about a foot away. The inverter was mounted in the outside compartment that's below the battery compartment. All batteries were wired in parallel, and the total 12 V cable run (for each leg) was about six feet.

With that setup, 2/0 cable (AWG 00) would have been adequate, yielding a 1.4% voltage drop (as calculated with this voltage drop table). I went overboard and used 4/0, but I wouldn't do that again.

I had 500 amp-hours of AGM batteries, but even running my microwave oven for two minutes was a considerable strain on them. And at 75 pounds per battery, that's a lot of lead--hundreds of pounds that could otherwise be used for your possessions. (500 amp-hours of LiFePO4 batteries would have performed better and weighed less, but that would cost almost $5,000 for the batteries alone.) The total cost of my AGM-battery-plus-inverter installation was several thousand dollars.

So yes, it can be done, but it's a major and expensive undertaking. It's a lot more practical to learn to cook with the propane stove. In fact, after years of using my Lazy Daze's microwave oven (and often needing to run the generator to recharge the batteries), with my last two RVs I removed the factory-installed microwave oven in order to free up a large storage space. I just use the propane stove.

While it is convenient  to have 120 VAC available at all outlets when not plugged in and not running the generator, there aren't many things nowadays that can't be bought in 12 VDC versions, or adapted to run on 12 VDC with small (less than 200 watt) plug-in inverters such as this 75 W model or this 150 W model. I have 12 V power adapters for my MacBook laptop, my Ryobi power tool batteries, and most things I need to power.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #3
I can run the microwave from a Samlex 1500 watt inverter fed by 400 amp hours of lithium batteries with 4 gauge wire.

Just a data point. I usually run the generator but the inverter does do the job. It also runs all the 120 volt outlets.

The inverter doesn’t work well at all from the two T105 batteries. The low voltage alarm sounds. I have a voltage drop from the FLA batteries I have never been able to eliminate.

Mine is a rear bath. I don’t know where you would place the inverter or batteries in a mid bath. In a rear bath the batteries, chargers and inverter go in the dinette seats.

The “full house” inverter is very convenient to have. I use it to run heated mattress pads overnight instead of the furnace.
Harry 2006RB

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #4

"I can run the microwave from a Samlex 1500 watt inverter fed by 400 amp hours of lithium batteries with 4 gauge wire."

Assuming a 6' (one way) cable run, including the interconnects between the batteries, that works out to a 4.3% voltage drop. That doesn't sound like much, but it would bring 12.7 V (a full charge) down to 12.15 V at the inverter inputs, and that's cutting it pretty close.

Aside from that, the standard ABYC ampacity table rates #4 wire at a maximum of 125 amps, which is well below the 140 amps the inverter will need to power that microwave oven.

"I use it to run heated mattress pads overnight instead of the furnace."

I've been really happy with my 12V blanket. It draws only 4 amps at 12 V, and it shuts off automatically after either 30 or 45 minutes (settable), which makes it perfect for preheating the bed. (I find that I don't need it once I climb into a warm bed.) No need for 120 V, and no need to pay the price of an inverter's less than 100% efficiency.

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #5
Harry, was 4 gauge wire used, or was it actually 4/0? 

Steve
2015 TK

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #6
4 gauge. Works fine but wire runs are no longer than 6ft. I think the microwave draws 100 amps.

Lithium starts at 13.3 volts. AC works perfectly to power the mattress heater 15 ft away. It runs all night.
Harry 2006RB

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #7
Here are photos of a Prosine 2000 watt inverter installation, designed for minimal voltage drop, it was wired with 4/0 cable, a joy to work with.
Prosine 2.0 Inverter | Flickr

Larry


Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #8
Reference electric blankets: It is wise to dispose of electric blankets, sheets, or warming pads after about eight to ten years of use. The internal resistance (warming) wiring's insulation can get brittle over time plus repeated heating, crack and expose the metal wire. If the wire breaks it can cause  sparks creating a fire. This is exactly what happen to a friend of ours several years ago which caused his bed and eventually the whole house to burn down taking our friend's life also. The toxic smoke was the reason he couldn't escape fast enough.   
2010 RB "Monty"  & currently: 2021 RB "Villa Verde"
2004 Born Free 26'
1998 Beaver Patriot 33'
1992 Barth Breakaway 28'
1982 Fleetwood Jamboree 23'
1982 Dolphin/Toyota 22'

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #9
Reference electric blankets: It is wise to dispose of electric blankets, sheets, or warming pads after about eight to ten years of use. The internal resistance (warming) wiring's insulation can get brittle over time plus repeated heating, crack and expose the metal wire. If the wire breaks it can cause  sparks creating a fire. This is exactly what happen to a friend of ours several years ago which caused his bed and eventually the whole house to burn down taking our friend's life also. The toxic smoke was the reason he couldn't escape fast enough.   

Now there is a data point worth considering.
Harry 2006RB

Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #10
I'm with Andy on this one.  I had a smaller workboat built in 2005 and really thought I needed a microwave, an inverter, and a larger battery bank for extended stays offshore.  The little 1000W microwave pulled nearly 100A from the house batteries (on startup) and the entire thing ran more smoothly if I had the boat engine on and putting juice in the batteries from the big alternator.  Then we effectively had a 300hp microwave oven.  Although we use it occasionally still, it is really MUCH more practical to use the stove when the boat isn't plugged into shore power.

Harold
2014 27 MB
Towd: Either the Jeep Wrangler or trailer containing the BMW R1200GS and 2 E-bicycles
Happy wife=Happy life

 
Re: Can I install a inverter?
Reply #11
Thanks for the reminder, Mike! My 12 V blanket is two years old, but I'll keep replacement in mind down the road.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"