2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

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Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #25 – July 29, 2018, 09:09:10 pm

Hmmm my 1998 31 ft IB has a Torque Pro OBD II plugged in and it has all the available settings you could ever ask for..?? At 03:41 PM 7/29/2018, you wrote:

Quote

"My 1999 E350 TK is certified for OBDII. If mine was compliant in 1999, I'm

surprised that the E450 in 1999 wasn't also certified." Ron, I believe that the OBDII compliance on your 1999 E350 is due to its 11 >,500 pound gvwr; the E450 had a gvwr of 14050. According to Larry's information, the 1996 OBDII compliance rule applied to vehicles under 14 >,000 pounds, so the E450 was stuck with OBDI. 2003 TK

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Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #26 – August 01, 2018, 11:41:08 pm

Yup, the only reason I like the 97 e350 v10 is for the obdii codes. It has picked up spark plug misses quickly. I just wish I wasn't almost at full capacity all the time and had 4.56 gears

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #27 – August 02, 2018, 05:44:37 pm

Hi from a Canadian,
IRT service and repair locations in NFLD and Lab. If you contact a garage notify them clearly of your vehicle size, weight and height since many garages, including Ford, will not, or cannot service motorhomes. R&R a gas tank fuel pump requires the vehicle to be hoisted to a height that allows a suitable device to be placed under the tank to take the weight as the straps are removed, tank lowered and pump worked on; if you get that far, consider having the tank inspected and washed out. BTW, try to have the tank as empty of fuel as possible, if it comes to fuel pump replacement. Spend a few hours reading about fuel pump R&R on your vehicle type, and even motorhomes in general.
Repair possibilities in Lab will be rare for a vehicle of your type, plus parts will take extra days or weeks to arrive. A ferry connects Lab and Nfld. A tow truck might be hesitant to tow a vehicle onto a ferry because of the steep angles usually encountered on entry and exit. A tow in Lab might be hundreds of miles. A tow in Nfld might be shorter, sometimes. Do you have a roadside assistance plan that would cover a tow of 200 or more miles? If not, a tow might cost more than a fuel pump replacement. I would fix the problem before taking the ferry to Lab. If I was driving a passenger car I would want it to be in dependable mechanical condition before going to Lab.
On the island of Nfld, Saint Johns is the capital and largest city with the largest variety of service capabilities. Outside that city, look for a town that has a paper mill or similar industry; they might have service locations for your size of vehicle that are accessible to the public. You need to plan on repair parts taking considerable time to arrive at the garage.
OTOH this province has many excellent mechanics working in local garages; finding one is the challenge. Having the work done at Ford might give a better analysis of the problem, with the best current equipment and software; but they also tend to the theory of "guess, replace, if it doesn't work guess again and replace another part and charge the customer for everything".
However, determining the problem is the first step, so finding a garage that can service your vehicle is the first step, then getting a diagnosis, then deciding what action to take.
Visiting Nfld and Lab is wonderful, but I would estimate that the frequency of garages capable of repairing a motorhome would be similar to the Wyoming and similar areas of the USA.
The good news? The american dollar is currently getting about 30% more in Canadian currency. That means that a $1,300 Cdn repair bill will translate into a $1,000 US bill.
Harvey

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #28 – August 03, 2018, 04:17:18 am

Hi folks, OP here.

We've so far been in relatively remote areas, and as such, we have not been able to get any tests run yet. Right now we are on Fogo Island.

Thanks for the continued inputs. Harvey, thanks for the Canadian tips. We are moving in the general direction of Saint Johns, and we also figured that might be the best location for further testing and replacement if so indicated. And thanks for your cautions about Labrador without having this resolved -- makes a lot of sense.

And Larry, I have a follow-on question to your earlier detailed insights/explanations into the possible problem (and turn-the-key-thrice trick). It sounded like you suspect the fuel system is losing pressure either due to a bad check valve or faulty pump. So here is another thing we have noticed, that I want to run by you:

We seem to encounter the problem mostly (only?) when the engine is warm. If it has been sitting overnight, at least recently while we've been paying attention, the engine starts right up on the first key turn. I would have thought low pressure would be *more* likely in the morning after the rig has been sitting all night? So does that symptom change any of your thinking on what the problem is likely to be?

I also filled up with Premium gas (without ethanol) a couple of tanks ago. I was going to keep doing that, but the last station we filled up at didn't offer premium. Is it advisable to keep filling with premium until we figure this out? Any downside to doing that?

I didn't know if the addition of the "warm engine" symptom might offer any other/different trouble-shooting or repair suggestions. If so, I'm all ears.

Thanks again for all of the inputs so far.

S-

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #29 – August 03, 2018, 04:41:52 pm

FYI, Larry and Renée are on the road so his response time for the next month or so might be hit or miss. 😎 — Jon

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #30 – August 03, 2018, 05:31:02 pm

Steve
I am beginning to wonder if it is flooding. Does wide open throttle start easier? The older fuel injection would flood when regulator diaphragm leaked through the sensing line to the intake manifold. Similar to a leaking fuel injector or flooded carburetor.

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #31 – August 03, 2018, 07:24:31 pm

Hi folks, OP back again.

Thanks Jon for letting me know Larry might be off the air for a while.

Quote from: rodneyhelfrich - August 03, 2018, 05:31:02 pm

Steve
I am beginning to wonder if it is flooding. Does wide open throttle start easier? The older fuel injection would flood when regulator diaphragm leaked through the sensing line to the intake manifold. Similar to a leaking fuel injector or flooded carburetor.

Rodney, if by wide open throttle you mean foot on the gas, then no. Actually, what is working best right now is leaving my foot off the gas until it catches. Sometimes immediately (lately, first thing in the morning) and otherwise pretty quick if the engine is not too hot (or so it seems to me). We're gonna keep testing it out ourselves until we can find a reputable repair location.

That said, when it doesn't catch the first time, I've been using Larry's trick of turning the key 3 times, and so far that has always worked.

It's a head scratcher. So while we wait for Larry to come back on the net, I welcome more ideas, theories, or WAGs so I have more things I can research. Thanks very much for your suggestion Rodney -- let me know if it changed or was re-affirmed based on that feedback.

Welcome anyone weighing in if they have any related experiences.

S-

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #32 – August 03, 2018, 07:45:05 pm

Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp - August 03, 2018, 04:17:18 am

We seem to encounter the problem mostly (only?) when the engine is warm. If it has been sitting overnight, at least recently while we've been paying attention, the engine starts right up on the first key turn. I would have thought low pressure would be *more* likely in the morning after the rig has been sitting all night? So does that symptom change any of your thinking on what the problem is likely to be?

I also filled up with Premium gas (without ethanol) a couple of tanks ago. I was going to keep doing that, but the last station we filled up at didn't offer premium. Is it advisable to keep filling with premium until we figure this out? Any downside to doing that?

Many problem only occur when hot or cold. Any of the fuel system's moving parts (pump, pressure regulator, injectors) could have this issue. The pump assembly is most likely the culprit, testing is still needed.

You are wasting your money on premuim fuel, it will not improve anything except lightening your wallet.
Premium fuel is for high compression engines, used to prevent pinging. That's it.

Parked for the night in smoke free Brookings Or.
Larry

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #33 – August 03, 2018, 07:46:51 pm

Larry, your response didn’t post. ?

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #34 – August 03, 2018, 08:11:00 pm

Thanks Larry, appreciate the quick reply from the road.

It will take us some time to get to Saint Johns, where hopefully I can get it tested and properly diagnosed, and then repaired if possible.

As for the premium gas, appreciate the advice. Nice to know that is the case. You can see I'm grasping at some straws up here ;-)

Oh, and for anyone keeping score, Thistle Dew Too just rolled over 100,000 miles before getting on the ferry to Fogo Island. And I have the photo to prove it (and though still in "Drive", I was pulled over and fully stopped when I took the picture ;-)

And if anyone wishes to follow along on our adventure via pictures, here's where I posted the first week's batch:

2018 Newfoundland Adventure - Week #1 | Flickr

I hope to include new albums every week or so (which can be found here: Steven Crisp’s albums | Flickr). I'm due for another one tomorrow if the WiFi is strong enough at Brimstone Head on Fogo Island, one of the four corners of the (flat earth) world. I kid you not ;-)

S-

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #35 – August 04, 2018, 02:57:11 pm

Great photos, Steve!

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #36 – August 04, 2018, 06:41:15 pm

Thanks Jon (or Loni), glad you enjoyed them. Happy to add you to the list if you like for future posts, just let me know.

I just sent out a new e-mail and link for Week #2. Here it is if you haven't seen it yet: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crisp_travels/albums/72157699810292255

Take care, and enjoy.

S-

Steven Crisp

email: scrisp@mac.com cell: 603-732-3668

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #37 – August 04, 2018, 07:14:28 pm

Lookin at those pictures kind of makes one forget about any running issues with the Motor home. Nice job.....

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #38 – August 04, 2018, 09:00:22 pm

I know I'm late to the party, but I wanted to throw in a few observations from a fuel pump failure in my 2003.

My symptoms were: a gradual decline in the way it started, particularly cold, leading to needing 2-3 cranks to get things running.

Eventually it failed to crank at all after a month of sitting.

It magically fixed itself after being towed (knocked around) to a shop. I then took it to a very reputable (and $$) shop to have the fuel pump tested. They spent 30-45 min driving with a pressure gauge on the fuel rail and couldn't find anything that tested out of spec.

Soon after, it started acting up again.

Finally I replaced it and all of the problems, most noticeably the slow started, went away for good.

Moral of my story - the fuel pump may not work one day, test fine the next day, and cause problems soon after. With a known failure item, and the need to replace the cracked hose on the generator fuel pickup, it's a job well worth tackling at a time of your choosing.

I would have been better off spending the diagnostic fees on replacement.

Rich
'03 MB in NC

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #39 – August 06, 2018, 03:53:13 am

Oops - that was a bad link that I can blame on Flickr -- correct number, but underlying link was previous album. So sorry.

Here is the correct link: Week #2: 2018 Newfoundland Adventure | Flickr

Sorry about that -- now I see have have to double-check Flickr before sending.

S-

Steven Crisp

email: scrisp@mac.com cell: 603-732-3668

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #40 – August 06, 2018, 03:14:42 pm

Steve - as I struggle with my decision as to when is the "right time" to pull the plug on full-time employment, your beautiful pics are definitely pulling in a certain direction...you get only one guess!!! Great job...and good luck with fixing your mechanical issue!

Bill

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #41 – August 08, 2018, 10:51:54 pm

Hi from Harvey,
I have spent an hour online searching for suitable repair locations in Nfld. No useful results. All the Ford dealerships will require you to contact them before you will learn if they can do anything, especially accommodating a motorhome on a lift. Engine and fuel diagnostics can be done while the vehicle is on the ground, so, hopefully, that can be done; BUT if their garage doors don't raise at least 13 feet, it might not. If they don't want to deal with a motorhome, maybe not.
You may have to go to a Ford Truck location to find equipment capable of your weight and size; the Ford.ca website would not reveal where Truck locations are. Phone them [or the US ford #] and hopefully, maybe, they can tell you what locations can cope with a motorhome; but I have read numerous reports of them being less than useless, in providing reliable information.
Again, when you contact anyone, tell them the length, height, and weight of your vehicle. Repeat if necessary. If they suggest a specific location, ask them again if your length, height and weight can be accommodated.
I could not find, by using internet, a single motorhome engine repair location. I suggest contacting RV sales locations and asking where they have repairs performed.
One useful bit of info was a truck towing location charged CA$175 per hour plus hookup fee for towing.
Do you have roadside assistance?
Have you spent hours viewing and reading videos/ reports of other people with similar problems?
One posting suggested fuel pump diagnostics were expensive and unreliable; better to put that money to replacing your fuel pump AND gas line to generator. At 100,000 miles, I tend to agree, unless a different problem/solution is clearly identified, such as failures in the throttle body/ fuel injection system.
Some people [and this is where you need to spend hours and hours] have reported on how they had fuel tank/pump/sensors/fuel lines repaired by backing their RV over a service pit [or equivalent] where the mechanic could access and drop the tank. And the problems they had in having reliable competent repairs performed. You can watch youtube videos about this.

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #42 – August 23, 2018, 05:26:59 pm

What is the latest on your engine problems?

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #43 – September 10, 2018, 12:03:14 pm

Hi folks,

OP here and sorry for being incommunicado for so long.

Letting you know the fuel pump problem thankfully did not cripple us in Newfoundland or Labrador, and we are back home now, where I plan to have it replaced.

Larry, your "trick" was used multiple times and I'm sure also saved wear and tear on the starter. Thanks for that.

We ended up skipping St. John's, and the few garages we did try did not think there was much they could do by way of testing to confirm/deny the problem. One was kind enough to tell me he could help spend quite a bit of my money though if I really wanted to!

Rich, thanks for your recent post about your experiences. That leads me to conclude now I just need to get'er done.

Some have you have commented on the pictures along the way. Here is the link to my travel blog, which includes a write up for each week, and then links to Flickr for the photos: Thistle Dew Too . I plan to publish one more entry for this adventure to summary expenses and the like.

We really enjoyed the trip, and were glad to have taken the route through Labrador. But you will spend a lot on gas, that's for sure. We figure every tank of gas is just a fancy hotel room we didn't have to stay in ;-)

Thanks again for everyone's inputs and moral support. Thistle Dew Too did a great job! Now it is time to thank her with a new fuel pump!

S-

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #44 – February 05, 2019, 05:48:45 am

What was the final resolution? And approximate cost? Any information to benefit others?
Harvey

Re: 2000 MidBath -- engine *sometimes* takes 2-3 attempts to start -- advice?

Reply #45 – April 29, 2019, 01:29:05 pm

Just getting back to RedNipCan after so long. Sorry.

Shortly after we returned home, we made arrangements with our local mechanic to replace the fuel pump as the likely culprit.

I bought the fuel pump for my rig online for $285, and the labor to drop the tank, clean it out, and replace the filter was very reasonable at $400 plus incidentals.

So bottom line is I lucked out on the trip and avoided a potentially expensive and time-consuming repair. And thanks to Larry's tip, was able to get through my trip without issue, and make it home for a local repair.

I felt very fortunate indeed. Thanks, and sorry for the delayed reply.

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Reply #25 – July 29, 2018, 09:09:10 pm

Reply #26 – August 01, 2018, 11:41:08 pm

Reply #27 – August 02, 2018, 05:44:37 pm

Reply #28 – August 03, 2018, 04:17:18 am

Reply #29 – August 03, 2018, 04:41:52 pm

Reply #30 – August 03, 2018, 05:31:02 pm

Reply #31 – August 03, 2018, 07:24:31 pm

Reply #32 – August 03, 2018, 07:45:05 pm

Reply #33 – August 03, 2018, 07:46:51 pm

Reply #34 – August 03, 2018, 08:11:00 pm

Reply #35 – August 04, 2018, 02:57:11 pm

Reply #36 – August 04, 2018, 06:41:15 pm

Reply #37 – August 04, 2018, 07:14:28 pm

Reply #38 – August 04, 2018, 09:00:22 pm

Reply #39 – August 06, 2018, 03:53:13 am

Reply #40 – August 06, 2018, 03:14:42 pm

Reply #41 – August 08, 2018, 10:51:54 pm

Reply #42 – August 23, 2018, 05:26:59 pm

Reply #43 – September 10, 2018, 12:03:14 pm

Reply #44 – February 05, 2019, 05:48:45 am

Reply #45 – April 29, 2019, 01:29:05 pm

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