Evaluating this 1993 RB LD January 04, 2019, 12:54:43 pm Greetings All,1993 Lazy Daze - rvs - by owner - vehicle automotive saleHave been talking to this owner. Has owned this rig for 8 years. Has a few issues - level jacks don't work, interior generator switch does not work (have to turn on from the outside). This is so hard to evaluate from the Maryland. No water damage or leaks. Asked about when the roof was last sealed. Saud it has tape on it and has not done more then that. No solar. No rust. Tires are 5 years old. No smoke or pets.Other questions or suggestions? They are asking $15k. The LD price list document on this page is like $8-9k.Any advice is welcome.Thank you,Liz in Maryland
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #1 – January 04, 2019, 01:27:08 pm The 'tape' is probably Eternabond, which is effective IF surface properly prepared before application. A lot of money to commit for an awfully old rig, so unless you can plan a vacation around it, I would hesitate...Steve 2 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #2 – January 04, 2019, 01:37:22 pm I know nothing about this RV inspection service, but this 1993 is in SoCal, and so is this service; you might want to check it out. (Or, another local service; perhaps a SoCal LDO board member might have a suggestion):Southern California RV Inspection | RV Inspection Southern CaliforniaThere is simply no way to tell if this rig is a good buy (even with a negotiable price; $15k is optimistic!) without a thorough inspection by a knowledgeable person; the seller apparently has been forthcoming about a couple of issues, but this is a 25-26 year-old rig, and it's very possible (very likely, IMO) that it may have additional issues, some of which the current owner may be ignoring, minimizing or be unaware of. I understand how difficult "remote buying" is, and how tempting it might be to just take a chance that the rig is solid and will not require a lot of cash for repairs and deferred maintenance from the get go, but real life experience suggests that buying a pig in a poke rarely provides a good outcome. YMMV, as always. 3 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #3 – January 04, 2019, 05:18:02 pm Joan is right about the odds such an old rig will have a multitude of problems. 90% of the older rigs I have inspected have had major issues, many of which would require more money to fix than what the rig is worth. 25 year old rigs are for those who have the time, skills, tools and a long-term parking space where repair and replacements can be made. If this describes you, then go for an old RV, but do it with your eyes, and wallet, wide open.What was hoped to be an inexpensive way of getting into RVIng can easily turn into a financial tragedy .Ideally both the chassis and coach should be inspected by a qualified mechanic and RV tech. Is it expensive? Yes but so much cheaper than finding you have bought a beautiful wreck. Too many folks get stars in their eyes and buy the first promising rig, only to find they need to pour thousand into it just to make it usable or that the hidden rot is so bad that repairs will surpass the purchase cost.Understand that any mechanical work will cost much more than having your car worked on and it can be very difficult to find a qualified shop will to to work on it. The same goes for finding a decent RV shop that will not overcharge you.You will find that some of the coach's accessories have changed and the correct repair parts can be hard or impossible to find, leading to expensive modifications. IMO, 15K for for 26 year-old rig is fantasy unless it is a real peach.One more thing, motor homing is not an inexpensive activity, there are much cheaper ways to travel. What you are buying is a life-style and comfort. in return for the money and time spent on the RV.Larry 3 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #4 – January 04, 2019, 05:41:55 pm We bought a gently used 1994 26 1/2 mid bath last summer. The thing had 54,000 miles and two previous owners. I thought to myself, well it's better than our 40 year old Tioga. In deed it is better but I went over it on site with a fine tooth comb and made a mental list of repair items, now that it's in the garage I still find odds and ends that need attention. I'm not without mechanical knowledge so I'm not too worried. The more I read here, the more things I need to repair. So far nothing too expensive but you never know.If you fly clear across country to look at it and possibly buy, also be prepared to walk away. 1 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #5 – January 04, 2019, 07:01:06 pm Hi Liz. Some of this will be obvious, but I want to tell you how I would go about this. First is to look and see what records there are detailing what has been repaired: roof vents replaced? Escape hatch lid, other vent lids, skylights. In addition to the main roof seams, have the vent outlines been resealed. Material around the roof rack and ladder mounting posts. Has it been in any accidents?. Has it been in Southern California all of it's life and questions about rust on the chassis, pits on the propane tank. (OK so he says no rust) Hours on the generator? (does it run, and has it been exercised) Has the refrigerator been replaced and when. Gas hose feeding the generator replaced? Any problems with the 460 engine, or exhaust manifolds? Transmission? Has it been towing vehicles? Work on the brakes? The tires at 5 years old are about to time out, no matter how much tread is left. What brand are they, do they have a lot of surface,sidewall checking? Age and type of batteries? Second, to justify the price, does it have any options. Well no solar, not LED lights outside or inside. My '99 has nonworking levelers also. With no parts or expertise around, pretty much worthless if they are Kwikee. I like LED tail lights and marker lights. Patio, reverse lights, front side marker lights could be LED, and new headlights and housings are good for this age of coach. Upgraded converter, surge protection, flat screen LCD TV?. Still on the original waterpump. There are lists on this forum of things to check. I prefer way more pictures myself, 40+ is kind of my minimum. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #6 – January 04, 2019, 09:43:51 pm "My '99 has nonworking levelers also. With no parts or expertise around, pretty much worthless if they are Kwikee."RonDo your levelers show *any* signs of life?Whenever mine do not work (the last time was due to a dead engine battery that caused a loss of memory) I dismount the control panel, disconnect one or both wire bundles on the rear, reassemble and test. That seems to do a reboot and was recommended by the Kwikee factory.
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #7 – January 05, 2019, 04:03:52 am Hi Steve; About my levelers, to digress from this current thread, No signs of life now. I had a poor installation to start with, and many leaks. I had to replace all of the 'spade' lugs on the wires attaching to the solenoid valves. I had water intrusion into the housing with the CPU pc board. I'm sure that corrosion has taken it's toll, although I haven't taken that apart yet to verify that. I've contemplated going back to 'Relay/switch/wire' logic to at least make it work again, and be field repairable at that. The pump and motor work, the valves work, hoses and rams work. Extended switches work. So close, but no cigar! The last time I saw a 'CPU' for sale it was $800 with no warranty, and no assurance that the part would fix it. So about ready to give it lock stock and barrel to a friend, and get a Bigfoot system. That $4k would be about 20 percent of what my rig is worth. It makes those leveling blocks look better! RonB
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #8 – January 05, 2019, 08:07:33 am Thus far my 2000 has required large amounts of work and it was in pretty darn good shape. That being said I wouldn’t go back and get a different rig, it’s just part of owning an RV that’s 2 decades old. The upside to this is the fact that every time you go somewhere you will likely have the best looking class C around.
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #9 – January 05, 2019, 10:16:41 am "25 year old rigs are for those who have the time, skills, tools and a long-term parking space where repair and replacements can be made. If this describes you, then go for an old RV, but do it with your eyes, and wallet, wide open."----These are critical points to assess realistically when considering buying any rig, especially an older one, particularly if one is looking at a remote buy deal without a professional inspection and trusting the seller to be savvy and forthcoming about issues. For every poster who comes to the LDO board with woeful tales of making a poor choice and having to spend thousands on the "three Rs" (Repair, Replace, Rehab) to get the thing roadworthy, I'm pretty sure that there are others who experience the same disappointments but never report. It's one thing to be able to do much or most of the needed work on the coach, the engine, the systems, and the appliances oneself or has friends or relatives who are "repair savvy", but entirely another if one has to hire out the work. Not only can competent, reliable, and knowledgeable mechanics and RV repair people be difficult to find, parts costs and shop labor charges are often very high. An older rig is not necessarily a bad buy for the right person, but heeding Larry's advice, coming from his long experience with working on a lot of LDs, is a prudent "cautionary tale." As always, YMMV. 2 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #10 – January 05, 2019, 10:59:27 am "An older rig is not necessarily a bad buy for the right person, but heeding Larry's advice, coming from his long experience with working on a lot of LDs, is a prudent "cautionary tale.""I'm always reminded of what Larry once said about this subject when it was his turn to make the decision about replacing their 20-year old rig . . . whether to buy a new unit or try to rehab a newer, but still old, unit . . . to paraphrase . . .He reasoned that he could either retire and spend a certain amount of time and money trying to rehab a used unit, or he could work at his job a bit longer and earn the extra amount needed to purchase a new unit, which would likely have few anomalies to contend with, and he could enjoy the use of the vehicle rather than spending all of his spare time fixing it.Fast forward 15 or so years, and his then-new 2003 Lazy Daze is still providing the enjoyment that he and his wife sought. Things needed to be repaired over those years, but they didn't all happen at once, and preventive maintenance was likely strictly adhered to by this proud owner.This tidbit of information has stayed with me all these years, mostly because of the source. When one thinks of the possibilities (nay, probabilities) that any repair work will take longer and be more expensive to effect than expected, then thinking about what one can do on one's own, and what must be hired out, and the problems with finding someone even remotely competent to do the work . . . well, this sentence is already too long. But you get the picture.All of this is out the window, if at least the partial purpose of purchasing an older unit that will need some level of repair/refurbishment is to provide a "Dad's in his workshop" experience for the owner. The pride of rehabbing an item back to its former self can be quite satisfying and meaningful if that is the goal, and the skills and rehab funds are in place. But if the goal is to have an RV for its intended use, then every day that is spent in "fixing" is a day that it is not enjoyed in that manner. As are many things in life, it is a balancing act with personal goals differing from person to person.I am conjuring up all manner of thoughts about how a not-handy person would go about finding out and fixing the problems that are inherent in any RV. So many are invisible until it is used. And then the hunt begins for "parts and labor" to make it safe and usable.While it is clear that I am looking at this from the point of view of someone who would not have the first clue about how to even change the oil, and really not all that excited about learning this skill, there really are limits on the ratio of time spent futzing with things vs. enjoying the unit.It all comes down to personal abilities and financial resources to provide a happy experience. I remember a quote from the movie "Psycho", wherein one of the characters opines that one cannot buy happiness, but that you CAN buy off unhappiness."Tom Cassidy: Yeah, tomorrow's the day! My sweet little girl -- [He leers over at Marion] -- Oh, oh, not you -- my daughter, a baby. And tomorrow she stands her sweet self up there and gets married away from me. I want you to take a look at my baby. Eighteen years old, and she never had an unhappy day in any of those years!George Lowery: Come on, Tom. My office is air conditioned.Tom Cassidy: You know what I do about unhappiness? I buy it off. Are, uh, are you unhappy?Marion Crane: Not inordinately.Tom Cassidy: I'm buying this house for my baby's wedding present. Forty thousand dollars, cash! Now that's not buying happiness. That's just buying off unhappiness. [waves money in front of Marion] I never carry more than I can afford to lose! Count 'em.Caroline: I declare!Tom Cassidy: [staring at Marion] I don't! That's how I get to keep it!George Lowery: Tom, uh... cash transactions of this size! Most irregular." Virtual hugs, Judie <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West Today: Chicken Florentine ********************************* 1 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #11 – January 06, 2019, 01:12:38 pm IMO, you can no more rehab an older rig than successfully maintain a newer model. The entire RV enterprise - regardless of brand* - is a net loss negative if looked at from a financial perspective. Over time, I would claim that the repair bills for older models essentially approximate the depreciation and capital loss incurred on new(er) models. That is, neither are "worth the money" invested if one pencils out the effective "loss". My advice, which has been pretty consistent, is get a rig - old or new - and maintain it to the level sufficient to enjoy it for its intended purpose. If it's got issues, address/fix those so the rig provides the necessary level of reliability to fully enjoy. I call this the zen approach - stop trying to project perfection on an RV. It's especially frustrating for the personality types that are attracted to LDs, because it never delivers the promised high of a job well done.If you want a fix-it-up project that holds some promise of returning real dividends, both financially and psychically, buy an investment property (house, condo) to fix and flip. Alternatively, if you like to work on cars, you could do a restomod, but the odds of recouping your money are zero sum at best. Thirdly, focus on a hobby, like woodwork or metal crafting - each will be cheaper and more satisfying in the end.*The one possible exception to this rule would be perhaps an Airstream. But it would take one that is absolutely bullet proof, and worth the time & effort to restore, buff out or otherwise expect a consistent return on time & money. 1 Likes
Re: Evaluating this 1993 RB LD Reply #12 – January 06, 2019, 01:23:10 pm So snerf, are you saying don't put a motor-home in your 401k? Just kidding of course.Jon.....
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