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Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #25
Hi,

I think this is first post here and before I ask a question, bit about us ...

Only two of empty nesters in mid/late 50s and recently retired. Doing research for quite some time and I think I zeroed in on 24 ft LD model (most probably TK but we are open and final decision after visiting CA) from final list including Sprinter based Sportsmobile and Tiger Bengal. Of course I am dreaming on how we will use the new vehicle but LD is a good fit for at least 5 years and my research tell me that I will avoid quality issues going with LD. We want to pick the new LD in July 2020 and Toadd asked me to call him in 8 months.

I thought new LD will not have any leakage issue for 10 years and if I end up keeping LD for 10 years, perhaps a visit to CA will solve any future water leak issue for next 10 years. True?

I did not read about LD putting additional strain on the Ford Chassis, is this specific to LD? Can you please point me to right direction to read more on this.

Thanks

Welcome to LDOF, Muhammad. I'm sure that several members will be responding to your questions soon.

Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #26
Hi Muhammad, welcome to the Forum. I think what Snerf meant was that the large windows require a lot of wooden framework around them to prevent flexing. This weighs more than a body panel made out of aluminum or steel with no or small windows. I don't think this really puts more stress on the E450 chassis, than a similar coach with slideouts. Those multiple slideouts have their own problems with chassis rigidity.
   It is interesting to see the latest models pushing Azdel composites for protection against water intrusion. Maybe some of that newer chemistry could migrate into Lazy Dazes. Or not!  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #27
  It is interesting to see the latest models pushing Azdel composites for protection against water intrusion. Maybe some of that newer chemistry could migrate into Lazy Dazes. Or not!  RonB

Azdel is proudly used by Coachman and other 'fine' manufacturers of RV.
Composite walls have been used by the RV industries for many years, instead of rot, delamination of the walls is the problem.
I see bulges in the wall of many older fiberglass RVs, where the fiberglass outer layer is lifting from the substrate.

As mentioned, any material used in building an RV is subject to huge physical forces and, over time time, things deteriorate, wear and break.  LDs are subject to this and they have their own problems, but compared to the many other RVs I have worked on, over the decades, they hold up much better than most of our friend's SOBs have, assuming the LD has been kept properly sealed up.
I know of several LDs with serious rot that has not been repaired, just resealed, Amazingly, these rigs keep going and have not fallen apart. Every piece of a LD's couch is designed and built to help strengthen the entire coach, everything is glued and screwed together, resulting is a stiff body that adds strength and rigidity to the overall vehicle.
Most other Class Cs are not built this way and have much more body flexing.
What flex there is in an LD coach is worse on the models with the around rear windows, such as a T/K, MB and 31' TB.
There is less structure in the these models to support the large amount of heavy windows.
Keep an eye on the rear end caps and the window's seals.

We have good friends with a 2003 30' Class A Coachman, the same age as our LD but with less than half the mileage. 
They are about ready to salvage it, the interior is falling apart and outer shell has bubble and bulges, where the fiberglass is lilting and the paint is coming off in little pieces. They are not RV abusers and have taken care of it as well as possible.
I expect to see it soon, parked in one of the industrial zones near us, as the population of the mobile homeless continues to grow,

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #28
Thanks.

now i know i am in good hands :-)

PS: first degree was in civil engineering and worked as structural engineer for very short before distracted by computers ... i will be surprised if wooden frame weight is transferred to the walls. usually it is other way around, wall is attached to the wooden frame which transfer the weight down.

Thanks again and I will go back to hibernation continue to read and take notes.

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #29
I will be surprised if wooden frame weight is transferred to the walls. usually it is other way around, wall is attached to the wooden frame which transfer the weight down.

The wall are built to be a monolithic panels. After the framing is laid out and stapled together, the interior paneling is glued onto the frames.
The walls are then raised and mounted on the chassis. After the interior cabinets, plumbing and electrical is installed, the outer walls are glued on the frames, forming a very solid wall structure, The roof's weight is transferred down the entire wall, not just the framing .
The walls are stronger than they need to be, this is the reason why many rotted LDs are still on the road, the outer paneling and aluminum skin providing enough strength to keep them from falling apart.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #30
On a factory tour with Ed many moons ago, without thinking or asking, I grabbed the wood frame below where a window would be and pushed and pulled my weight. It did not move.

I have seen pictures of an LD after a rollover. It was still in one piece with little obvious damage.

Larry is dead on - monolithic panels.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #31
For what it's worth, here's a photo of a Lazy Daze midbath under construction, showing the framing, and a photo of one that rolled over. The accident report:

According to the State Patrol, a 1997 Lazy Daze 23-foot motorhome was eastbound on 108 about 1 PM. As the RV approached the intersection with Eich Road, about milepost 8, the driver fell asleep and the vehicle left the roadway to the right, struck a ditch and rolled onto its side, blocking both lanes of the highway.

A passenger in the motorhome, 76-year-old Ann Liepmhem, was transported to Mason General Hospital with undisclosed injuries. The driver of the RV, Gerald D. Lowrie, 74 of Port Orchard, and passenger Carol B. Lowrie, 73 of Port Orchard, were not injured.


Finally, here are a couple pictures of a typical class A motorhome after a rollover.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #32
Well if you tow a trailer you are as safe as the truck's safety record you tow with!  Otherwise I think our safety in our LD is the best over Class As and Cs!

  Liam~Karen
    98 ~ MB
      NinA

1998 ~ MB  WanderDaze
previously a 1984 Winnebago itaska- The Road Warrior, before that several VW Buses and before that a 1965 Chrysler Convertible Newport or our 1969 Chrysler La Barron with an ice box and a couple sleeping bags

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #33
Thanks Andy. An interesting picture oaf a 24 front dinette. I notice that the escape hatch is actually being used as the easiest way out. The passenger and coach doors would be difficult. I imagine the rear window could be kicked out, if it wasn't already broken out. Still the closest to the ground, next to the toilet, but black water possibly near there.. I don't think they could have been going very fast.  RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #34
An interesting picture oaf a 24 front dinette. I notice that the escape hatch is actually being used as the easiest way out.

Too bad the LD discontinued installing the large, 'escape' hatch', over the bunk.
Many LD owners used it to access the roof, not liking to use the ladder, the ladder's reverse slope bothers a lot of people.
We love the hatch, leaving it open every night, year round, enjoying the cool, fresh air and the view of the stars.
A 14 X14 vent or Fantastic Fan just wouldn't be the same.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #35
I thought the LD rollover picture I saw was of it in the median of a divided highway and it had done a 270. Or maybe not. My mind has been MIA for some time.

We have seen several TT and 5 flipped. Just a trash pile left like the A pictured. There is a difference between cardboard and staples and how the LD is built.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #36
This thread went from water damage to construction methods to what happens in an accident. I did not change the topic.
Was not me.

While looking for something else, I stumbled on this about accidents.

I make the wheelbase-to-length ratio of a MB to be 56%.
Don & Dorothy
Sold our LD in June of 2023

Our boring always non-PC travel blog
Traveling Dorothy

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #37
"We have seen several TT and 5 flipped. Just a trash pile left like the A pictured."

I passed one such wreck a few weeks ago. It looked much like the pile of trash in the photo. Nothing above the frame rails had survived unscathed; it was just spread across the landscape.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #38
Yes, the thread has drifted a bit (although technically, we're still talking about LD construction). Anichka, anything new on your rig's condition?
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #39
For what it's worth, here's a photo of a Lazy Daze midbath under construction, showing the framing, and a photo of one that rolled over. The accident report:

According to the State Patrol, a 1997 Lazy Daze 23-foot motorhome was eastbound on 108 about 1 PM. As the RV approached the intersection with Eich Road, about milepost 8, the driver fell asleep and the vehicle left the roadway to the right, struck a ditch and rolled onto its side, blocking both lanes of the highway.

A passenger in the motorhome, 76-year-old Ann Liepmhem, was transported to Mason General Hospital with undisclosed injuries. The driver of the RV, Gerald D. Lowrie, 74 of Port Orchard, and passenger Carol B. Lowrie, 73 of Port Orchard, were not injured.


Finally, here are a couple pictures of a typical class A motorhome after a rollover.
Pic of mid bath under construction was very interesting. Do you or anyone else have a pic of front lounge rear bath under construction. I'd really like to see how mines put together.
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #40
Again, just trying to be helpful here.
Sawyer said "... if the rest of the rig is in good shape well worth doing."

In my opinion, if this is the same unit which my wife & I went to inspect earlier this year, and from the pictures it sure looks like it is, succinctly put, it is not.

In business I was a real estate appraiser for several decades.  Before ever entering a building I would inspect the property from the exterior.  I also spent years in the automobile business where I was responsible for inspecting to determine value of any trade-in vehicles.  This also started on the exterior.
Upon completion of my "walk-around" on the LD unit which we viewed in Northern Illinois, I came very close to not even going inside to inspect the interior, the exterior, in my opinion, did not warrant it.  In my opinion, there was no panel, front, rear, quarter nor side,  that did not exhibit some form of problem, the most common being the exterior paint which was "pocked" or bubbled-up from under the paint. It looked much like a car which had paint in tact but was rusting from under the paint creating bubbles and pocking.  The exterior green color was not true; having lived in Southern California during my college years,  and having spent time in the Arizona desert, it had the tinge, I'll say, of being sun burned in areas.  Later the seller told me it had been parked at a beach state park every year from the time the snow left upper Illinois until late Fall.  From Fall until the following Spring, it sat outside in our Upper Illinois winters.
It was green & white, but not LD green. I wondered why.  I saw evidence that it had been re-painted.  I climbed up the ladder which may not have been original and saw evidence of it being an outside in all kinds of weather unit, with re-sealing here and there which looked like it was performed by someone who did not know what they were doing.

When my wife & I entered the unit I remember thinking, the collar matches the cuff.  This did not exhibit any sign of it being a used, but well loved unit.  Rather, it exhibited signs of it being a well used, little if ever cared-for or maintained unit, with little or no pride of ownership throughout.
Of note; at the time we viewed it, it was not yet for sale.  The owners were going to sell it but not until after they "cleaned it up" to ready it for sale.  We kind of talked our way into being able to view it in advance of it going on the open market, so in cleanliness & organization, etc., it may have looked better when the sellers eventually put it on the market.

After inspecting the unit and thanking the person who let us view it for the opportunity to see their unit, we left.
Over the years my wife and I have owned a couple of different motor homes and three different Airstream trailers.  In each instance we did not buy the first one we saw, but instead viewed many or several before landing on one.
Upon pulling away, my wife and I agreed, this was the worst overall condition RV unit we have ever seen.
If it were half the price  we were told they would be asking, we would not have bought it.  In our opinion, the "cost to cure" would still be too much.  If it were any amount less than half what we told they would like to get, neither my wife nor I would have been swayed.  The unit we saw, in our opinion was one to avoid, period.

Good and well meaning advise has been offered on this thread as I've come to see happens often here on the LD Forum.  My wife and I are not yet LD owners but believe we will find our unit one of these days.  We joined this forum when we decided to give LD a good hard look.  We like what we see in LD the brand and see a very valuable resource as well as place of friendship here at this LD Forum.

I thought long and hard before writing this.  It is surely not my desire to hurt anichka or anyone in the family or to make anyone feel bad about their purchase.

Instead, I see genuine help and suggestions being offered by good intention-ed people but, I may be the only one who has actually seen and done an inspection of this unit in-person.

anichka, I speak to you here.  First of all, this may not be the unit I viewed; I would be glad to communicate, off-forum, about the selling location/ selling party, etc. to determine if it is the same unit.  Also,  if it is, I may be wrong about what it would take to cure the woes. 
However,  if it is the same unit, I would strongly suggest if not implore you to have it inspected top to bottom before putting any more money into it.  I would suggest having it inspected by someplace that knows motorhomes, but, they may just see a money maker and encourage you to put more money into it now, knowing more will come. 
It may very well be in your best interest to make a trip to the LD factory to let them assess the unit and what costs you may have coming down the pipe, beyond that of just the window leak.  It may be a trip that could save you money and future aggravation.

Now, I've said enough.  Again, I am just hoping to be helpful, not in any way hurtful.



I can only hope this isn't the same rig as in the OP. 
Discuss anything with anyone and disagree agreeably. Always be polite and respectful.

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #41
Anichka - In case you haven't stumbled upon it yet, there is a very good listing of RV repair facilities that can be found here http://www.rvservicereviews.com/Index.asp. I have found it to be unbiased and updated regularly. Reviews left here (both positive and negative) will help to guide others when repairs are needed. I hope this helps in some small way.

We all look forward to following your updates...good luck!
Ray
Now doing without...

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #42
Using a variety of resources to find service is a good idea, but be sure to check the numbers of reviews for a shop, the *dates* of service, and the type of work that was done (and on what). Also, check to verify that a shop is still in business. 😉



2003 TK has a new home

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #43
Hi all - I will catch you up soon on updates, after I get through this thread! We had an insanely busy week last week. We're still in the process of gathering quotes. I am going to check in with HappyChi, too, about whether this is the same rig.
2002 MB

Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #44
anichka,
Per your PM and the information you provided about location at father-in-law's home, seller's first name, where she & her husband live, etc., I can confirm, this is the same LD which my wife and I viewed and inspected earlier this year.  To further confirm I'll say the seller's last name is L***za.  We viewed it on March 24, this year. It had not yet been cleaned-up for sale.

Again, the good people here of the LD Forum who have chimed-in so far have all given good honest support, suggestions and advice.

However, as someone who does not yet own a LD, but who will once we find the one for us, but perhaps more importantly,  as someone who has viewed and inspected this unit in person,  I would suggest if not urge you to consider bringing it to the LD factory for their assessment before proceeding with any costly repair of the singular issue you wrote about in your initial post.

My thought being to let them and only them, assess the entire unit and advise you before proceeding.
LD  wannabe will be owner

 
Re: Water damage - what to do TODAY
Reply #45
Hi all - I will catch you up soon on updates, after I get through this thread! We had an insanely busy week last week. We're still in the process of gathering quotes. I am going to check in with HappyChi, too, about whether this is the same rig.

If you don't use the factory to repair and want to look at someplace "local" (not sure where you live in WA) check out Infinity Coach repair in Sumner, WA. I've had my SOB in there twice for windshield replacement. The first time one of their customers (not me!) clipped a 5th wheel units stairs. They were on the phone immediately to get parts and repair it on their expense and as far as I know didn't charge either customer for the repair.

They are also listed in http://rvservicereviews.com/StateList.asp?state=WA as excellent

J Sadler