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Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Have been plugged into power for the past 3 days without issue. We have a hardwired EMS as well. The remote display indicates no errors and voltage reads 120 to 123.

This morning with less than 15 amps showing on the EMS the 15 amp circuit breaker tripped. That breaker was replaced over a month ago. There was a noticeable hot electrical smell. The prior two days we had been running the AC and had no problem and no indication of overly warm breakers. The 20 amp breaker that the AC runs on was replaced at the same time as the 15amp.

I assumed that the breaker tripped because we had two small heaters running despite their combined voltage being around 1400 watts. We left one turned off and the breaker didn't trip again. We turned off both heaters a bit later and I noticed that the EMS indicated we were only using 1amp. After more than an hour I still detected that electrical odor and the main breaker which combines the 30 amp whole house and 15 amp converter was unusually warm to the touch. I removed the plate covering the wiring and all connections were tight. Still only using 1amp.

Any ideas on what might be causing this? Could it be the main breaker needs replacement?

If that breaker is the problem how do you get the metal bracket loose to unclip the breaker? I'm attaching an older photo to show what I'm talking about. It appears the bolt that attaches that bracket is at the top of the box which I would think means you have to slide the entire box out of the wall a bit.

Jim

Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #1 –
Jim,
Heaters and other devices will pull higher amps at times (startup, maybe when room colder vs after room is warmer and they are just  maintaining the temps).  The wattage written on the heater (appliance) usually is the max it will pull.  Typically two small heaters can have problems on one 15 amp breaker though it might be just sometimes as you saw. 

The. breakers should not need anything undone - they just pull forward at the top.  They just snap in and out.  Let us know your power center model and someone who has that model can confirm this.

Electrical smell - not good.  I would check he wires going into the breakers (pop them out for good access) and check where the breaker snaps into the power center .  The breakers should not have wobble in them when in the panel.

In our 30 year old panel, a couple breakers were loose, and  we got that smell so I immediately suspected them.  When the breakers were removed there was some blackened spots where they connected into the power center.  New breakers were immediately put in but they were still a little loose/wobbly.  We replaced the entire power center shortly after that and the breakers now fit correctly.

Jane

Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #2 –
PS - as always turn off the power (unplug shore, generato off,  and to be safe our power center manual  says disconnnecr battery and aolar)   before sticking your hands or tools intolerance near  the power center. 

Jane
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #3 –
Couple things, if your breaker panel looks like the picture, you will most likely have to access the screw holding the one breaker in. If it were mine, I would have the 30 amp where the tab is because it probably would never need replacement and needs to be tight. Any how, 1400 watts resistive like an electric heater would be is pushing the heck out of your 15 amp breaker and it should trip. You say the 30 amp breaker is warm to touch, if all connections are tight and it is clipped onto the buss good with no loose connections. I would say most likely it is failing. If it was mine, I would remove all the breakers and look for signs of arching or burned marks. If you smell something burning, it'll show somewhere. Not much help I know but it might give you some direction to look.



Jon....
1994 MB
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #4 –
And, if the panel is full of the small wafer breakers and the 30 A. is one of them, check it over real close for burn marks. Those little half breakers fail under load more often than the full sized ones.
1994 MB
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #5 –
Jon reminded me sometimes there is a metal tab on the main breaker.
Something unique to RVs? I have never seen that in a house.

Anyone know why they have that tab - and only for the main breaker?

Jane

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
Jane & Scott
Currently have a 1989 TK  LD we did a lot of upgrades on.
Bigfoot 25RQ Twin on order with early summer 2024 ETA

Our smartphone autocorrects into very poor English.
 We disclaim the illusion of ignorance this creates as we have enough ignorance we rightly claim.
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #6 –
The panel is the 7345 Parallax. Although the converter was replaced with a PD 4645 3 stage converter.

The breakers are smaller in size and they have wobbled since the rig was new. They are kept secure by the metal plate that screws in place over them. When the 15amp and double 20amp were replaced a little over a month ago there was no sign of damage to the breakers and there is no sign of heat damage to the wiring now.

As to the metal tab that protrudes over the 15amp portion of the double 30/15amp breaker I see no way of moving it over the top of the 30 and since it is a single device I'm thinking that it wouldn't make a difference.

I now suspect that this was an overreaction on my part. The breaker tripped and I detected an odor probably from the new 15amp breaker then starting feeling the others. They weren't hot they were just warm. However, we are plugged in again and will see what happens.

Appreciate the ideas and any other suggestions are welcome.

Jim
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #7 –
This is more of my experience than a suggestion of what be wrong in your case, but here goes anyway.

Has it been raining lately?

My problem with that breaker tripping tuned out to be water getting into the outside outlet on my MB.  I don't even know if the IB has a similar outside outlet, but that water intrusion problem caused the 15A outlets breaker to flip and I suspected the breaker was failing.  It wasn't. 


2003 MB
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #8 –
Quote from: rich  - 
This is more of my experience than a suggestion of what be wrong in your case, but here goes anyway.

Has it been raining lately?

My problem with that breaker tripping tuned out to be water getting into the outside outlet on my MB.  I don't even know if the IB has a similar outside outlet, but that water intrusion problem caused the 15A outlets breaker to flip and I suspected the breaker was failing.  It wasn't. 




The only external outlet is the one the frig is plugged into. Haven't been in any rain in about a week.

Jim
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #9 –
1400 watts = 13 amps.  Add an amp for the other stuff you have running, and you are at 14 amps, on a 15 amp twinned breaker.  I would sure expect that breaker to be running warm, maybe hot.  If I understood your description, that breaker is next to and twinned to the 30 amp main, so the adjoining breaker is ALSO carrying 14 amps.  You are right at the limit of that 15 amp breaker.  If there is anything else that might come on - TV, computer, etc., that might tip you over the edge.

As to pulling the main breaker to check it, I had to do that once, and my recollection is hazy, but I THINK you pull the panel out, and there is a screw on top that holds that metal tab in place.  Loosen the screw, and you can move the tab to the side and pull the breaker.

As others said, check all the breakers and the wires connected to them for signs of heat damage.  If you find any sign of heat damage, do not just replace the breaker and damaged wire.  You need to determine what is on that circuit that is creating the issue.

Here is another thought.  You are plugged into shore power so this is unlikely, but might your converter be coming on to charge your batteries or to run the 12v systems?  That converter has a 120v breaker that feeds it.  That would add to any load, and a converter trying to charge a battery bank can pull quite a bit.

If you plan to move breakers around, remember that the main is different.  The other breakers take power from the buss, and route it to the connected wire.  The main takes power from the connected wire and feeds it to the buss.  I think...

Ken F in NM
'08 MB
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #10 –
Thanks, Ken. I realize that we had the frig on AC at the time and if that cut on it would have gone higher than 15 amps with the other draw on it. As I said, I think now that I overreacted to what happened. It's not like I haven't experienced a breaker tripping before and suspect there is nothing to it. There is currently no sign of the breakers getting too hot under 4-5 amp draw.

You did answer a question I've had about how much power is going through the main 30/15 breaker.

Jim
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #11 –
Jim & Gayle: you may be able to take the screen out that is the return air for your furnace and reach in and unscrew the screw that holds the breaker in to keep from having to pull your panel

Jand52: it's not an RV thing. According to National Electrical Code article  408.36(D)
Back Fed Devices: plug in type over current protection services or plug in type main lug assemblies that are back fed shall be secured in place by additional fastener that requires other than a pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel
2006 50th Anniversary Blue/Gold Edition
 
Re: Electrical Problem Circuit Breaker
Reply #12 –
I thought I should update this. Apparently, I was mistaken about the issue. We've been plugged in running the AC and other outlets without an issue.

I actually do understand how much can be run on the 15amp outlets but based on my post you wouldn't think so. Appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter sorry to waste your time.

Jim