Battery advice? May 29, 2018, 01:24:04 pm Hi folks,We're thinking about our next ThistleDewToo adventure, and realize it is probably time to replace our batteries. We currently have 4 Lifeline AGM batteries (2 in the battery bay, and 2 under the fridge). We put in the largest at the time that would fit (2x 220 AH GPL-4C and 2x 300 AH GPL-6C). We bought these from AM Solar on the west coast, but our home is on the east coast (NH) where we are currently located. Any suggestions of the best place (i.e., lowest price) to get replacement batteries? And are AGMs still what we should be getting given the system has been wired for them. Not sure if Lithium batteries have become cost competitive (or would be applicable since they will freeze in the winter).Any advice is welcome -- I've been away from the forum, and a quick search regarding AGM batteries turned up mostly older posts, so I thought I would ask anew. If there is a current/active thread on this topic, please feel free just to point me there.Thanks in advance!S-
Re: Battery advice? Reply #1 – May 29, 2018, 01:33:48 pm Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp - May 29, 2018, 01:24:04 pmWe put in the largest at the time that would fit (2x 220 AH GPL-4C and 2x 300 AH GPL-6C). When was this?Steve
Re: Battery advice? Reply #2 – May 29, 2018, 01:48:03 pm Hi Steve,These were installed in 2008, and while the RV got very little use in the interim (we were overseas), we know they are likely due for replacing.So the real questions is where is the best (cheapest) place to get them, since I consider them a commodity item. Or has technology/cost curve advanced enough, and we should be looking for something else (I doubt it, but it would be cool if the were the case).Thanks,S-
Follow-ups Unusual Battery Monitor Readings Re: Battery advice? Reply #3 – May 29, 2018, 02:11:32 pm Where to buy back east I have no experience, but after 10 years they likely will need it. However, I would do a test on how well they are holding a charge. Disconnect all charging sources for 24 hrs (shorepower, solar) and check voltage. If less than 12V, you may already have bad cells. If 12.5V or higher, they are still good, if reduced in capacity from age. This would give you flexibility to have them replaced someplace on the road which might be more convenient.Steve 3 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #4 – May 29, 2018, 02:24:42 pm Thanks for the advice Steve. I will try your suggestion and see what I find.I should note we think this next adventure will take us up the East Coast, into Newfoundland and possibly Labrador. So we won't be anywhere out west. Hence my desire to take my lumps while on familiar territory, and not depending on the batteries for internet, levelers, water, etc ;-)
Re: Battery advice? Reply #5 – May 29, 2018, 04:48:41 pm I, too, bought my AGM's from AM Solar in 2008. I am a fulltimer and treated the batteries gently, but used them daily. I replaced them in May, 2017 at AM Solar, because of the age and my concern about being stranded somewhere and not able to handle them myself. When AM Solar pulled them out, they said the batteries were in good shape. From my end of things, they were continuing to perform well, with overnight discharge levels that have been consistent for years.SO - to me, the question is, how have your batteries been treated over the years? Mine are inside, and have seen a constant temperature of 60 to 80 degrees all their life. A NH winter would certainly stress a battery exposed to the outside temperature. Have you kept the batteries charged, or did you let them discharge deeply, with occasional charging? Deep cycling, long times between charging, can stress a battery more than daily use.Bottom line, with a 10 year old battery, unless they have been very well and gently treated, Steve is right. It is time. But if you have stored them someplace with no temperature extremes and have kept them in a well-charged condition, they may be fine for another few years. Mine probably would have been fine for at least another year, but I feel safer with the new ones in.Ken F in WY
Re: Battery advice? Reply #6 – May 29, 2018, 11:12:39 pm Hi Ken, et al,I'm ready to replace them. Now I'm just trying to figure out how best to do that on the East Coast. COSTCO does not carry Lifeline, and they don't recognize the descriptors -- they are looking for battery group sizes and they don't seem to match.So I've started to look on-line. Of the half dozen places that come up in my search, here is the best price I can find:GetMyBattery.com: 2x Lifeline GPL-4CT @ $299.99, 2x Lifeline GPL-6CT @ $389.99 (free shipping). Not yet sure how they are shipped. Total price out the door would be $1379.96. That's better than I thought I might find, and less than a 10% increase over what I paid for the original batteries at AM Solar in 2008! If anyone has any other/better suggestions, or has a cautionary tale about this vendor, please let me know. Otherwise that's probably what I'll do. Thanks for the advice and suggestions so far. 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #7 – May 30, 2018, 12:50:27 am Steve & Carol,just for reference, I'm having solar upgraded thru Quality RV Solar in Fremont, CA later this year.Replacing batteries as part of it: Lifeline GPL-4CT $349.95 each. Your numbers look good.joel 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #8 – May 30, 2018, 01:59:39 am Over the years I've bought a number of Lifeline AGM batteries from Powerstride. Their prices seem competitive, considering that there's no charge for shipping, and they do ship promptly. 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #9 – May 30, 2018, 08:41:23 am Steve and Carol-I've purchased Lifelines twice from bestconverter.com. They place the order with Lifeline. Lifeline can ship the GPL-4CTs directly using UPS. I believe batteries larger than that must come by truck.bestconverter's Lifeline prices just went up about 10 percent. A month ago, the GPL4CT was $287.50. Now it's $305.00.Call them for total prices, including shipping. I have purchased other components from them (Trimetric battery monitors, SeeLevel tank gauge system, Progressive Dynamics converter) and have always found Randy and the folks there pleasant.MarkFormer owner, 1997-8 mid-bath 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #10 – May 30, 2018, 12:55:31 pm Thanks Mark.Those do look like good prices, but as you note, recently higherAndy, so good to hear from you -- hope your Airstream adventure is turning out just as you had hoped.I checked out Powerstride, but also found them to be notably higher than my recent quote.So I will probably pull the trigger today - I'm just conversing back with the sales person to ensure the batteries will have recent manufacturing date and of course are brand new. I'll close the loop once I receive and install the batteries and let anybody know if there were any hitches along the way with my chosen source for batteries.Appreciate the inputs, and as I have not yet pulled the trigger, if anyone needs to wave me off GetMyBattery.com, please let me know your experience.S- 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #11 – May 30, 2018, 05:44:38 pm OK, final update until I receive the batteries.I ordered them from GetMyBattery.com, and received an additional 5% off because I did not complete the order while I spoke with you all, and they wanted me to finish it, so offered the additional 5% discount. Woohoo (thanks all!)They tell me the batteries ship directly from the factory, so these are brand new batteries. The business behind the web page is batterywholesaleinc.com, but the other URL lets them sell outside of MN.Again, there was no shipping charge, and they estimate about 2 weeks to receive the batteries.Final total cost per battery was as follows: Lifeline GPL-4CT @ $284.99, Lifeline GPL-6CT @ $360.99 after 5% discount.Surprisingly, that is only +3.6% (for the 4CT) and +0.3% (for the 6CT) more than I paid for these at AM Solar 10 years ago!I'll give a final update after the batteries are received, to let you know if there have been any surprises or gotchas.S- 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #12 – May 30, 2018, 06:25:48 pm Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp - May 29, 2018, 01:24:04 pmWe put in the largest at the time that would fit (2x 220 AH GPL-4C and 2x 300 AH GPL-6C). I'd be curious about the charging characteristics of these mixed capacity batteries. I've always heard that you should not mix batteries of different ages, types, and probably capacities. I am assuming that the GPL-4Cs are in series and the GPL-6Cs are also in series, and the two resulting 12V banks wired in parallel.Art
Re: Battery advice? Reply #13 – May 30, 2018, 06:38:06 pm Quote from: Older_Fossil - May 30, 2018, 06:25:48 pmI'd be curious about the charging characteristics of these mixed capacity batteries. I've always heard that you should not mix batteries of different ages, types, and probably capacities. I am assuming that the GPL-4Cs are in series and the GPL-6Cs are also in series, and the two resulting 12V banks wired in parallel.This is what I would suspect happens: at any given voltage across the batteries, the battery banks should each be at a similar percent of full charge, and thus charge current demand will be higher to the higher capacity bank, allowing both banks to fully charge at the same time - assuming an equal environment. What would be of more concern is having the banks in separate climate zones. Temperature will have a big effect on the ability of batteries to accept charge and maintain it.Steve 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #14 – May 30, 2018, 06:51:29 pm These different capacities were as designed and installed by AM Solar 10 years ago. What I was told was that when it came time to replace them, replace them all at the same time, as recharging would not work optimally if it were applied to new and old batteries. Good point about the climate zones; I don't recall that being mentioned, though Greg may have noted that since I didn't camp in the winter weather, it would not be too great a difference. But something to definitely consider.S- 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #15 – May 31, 2018, 02:07:34 am Quote from: Steve and Carol Crisp - May 30, 2018, 06:51:29 pmGood point about the climate zones; I don't recall that being mentioned, though Greg may have noted that since I didn't camp in the winter weather, it would not be too great a difference. But something to definitely consider.I suspect you have Mid-Bath any the batteries are located almost touching each other, separated by the plastic wall of the battery box..When adding extra batteries, I insulate the battery compartment's exterior door, in an attempt to minimized the temperature differences.With AGMs not need venting, the exterior door's vent holes can be sealed and the inside of the door insulated with a closed-cell foam, such as a backpacker's foam pad.. Weather strip the door's exterior seals to finish.This is an inexpensive project and goes a long way to minimize the temperature difference between the two bank of batteries.Larry. 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice on a stuck battery tray Reply #16 – May 31, 2018, 07:10:52 pm Need help, please. We have a 2000 30" rear twin with 108,000 miles on it. We absolutely love the Lazy Daze motor home. Problem is the Kwickee slide out battery tray, won't slide. We think the previous owner might have had the batteries leak and the acid may have fused the tray/drawer. Also there seems to be something like the black tar coating that has bubbled up under the tray also keeping it from moving.Has anyone else had a problem of the sticking battery drawer and if so, any solutions to the problem?Thank you very much for any assistance you may offer.
Re: Battery advice? Reply #17 – June 01, 2018, 11:45:58 am Quote from: Larry W - May 31, 2018, 02:07:34 amI suspect you have Mid-Bath any the batteries are located almost touching each other, separated by the plastic wall of the battery box..When adding extra batteries, I insulate the battery compartment's exterior door, in an attempt to minimized the temperature differences.With AGMs not need venting, the exterior door's vent holes can be sealed and the inside of the door insulated with a closed-cell foam, such as a backpacker's foam pad.. Weather strip the door's exterior seals to finish.This is an inexpensive project and goes a long way to minimize the temperature difference between the two bank of batteries.Hi Larry -- yes, correct, we have a Mid-Bath and the close proximity is why AM Solar recommended installing the interior batteries under the fridge (to minimize cable distance).That's a clever suggestion for trying to equalize the two battery compartment climates. I will look into that as I prepare to install the new batteries -- thanks! S-
Re: Battery advice? Reply #18 – June 01, 2018, 12:56:41 pm Hi JKH; Welcome back, (a name always helps). I'm going to assume you have the wet acid batteries, with removable caps. The wet batteries can leak a bit, usually too much distilled water added, but also fumes that attack the zinc on the sliders and roller bearings. The black coating underneath the batteries make the wooden box watertight. It can look pretty lumpy, but wouldn't prevent the battery tray from moving. You didn't mention how long you've had your motorhome, or if this is a recent problem. First try some lithium spray from a can with the 6" applicator extension, and spray where the bearings are in the track on each side. make sure the security latch is rotated out open, and the locking bars are released from the retaining notches. I use a piece of wood about 3/4" square by 6" to lift up the bar, and commonly have one side fall back in the notch while I'm trying to release the other. Pushing in on the batteries will help release the locking bars. Try pulling out the tray with force, pushing back in and back out to free up the bearings. Each time I check the water in the batteries, I grease those bearings and sliders with some white polyethylene grease. I hope this helps your situation. RonB 1 Likes
Re: Battery advice? Reply #19 – June 01, 2018, 02:48:20 pm Thank you so very much, Ron B. Nice to meet you, I'm James. I'll try your suggestions. I've done some of them before, but thought maybe that waterproof coating was causing a problem, but probably not. I bought our grey bird, 30' model in 2016. It's a dream to drive after some of the class A's and even a C & B. Lazy Daze, with it's low profile, is the most driver friendly of all, don't you agree?Thanks again.
Re: Battery advice? Reply #20 – June 01, 2018, 03:01:55 pm Just my personal opinion: the fact that AM Solar would install batteries of widely differing amp-hour capacities (300 vs. 220 Ah) tells me that their engineering should be taken with a grain of salt. While AM Solar is generally competent, mixing battery sizes is pretty much universally agreed to be a bad idea, for the same reasons that mixing batteries of widely differing ages is a bad idea. If I were an installer, I would never recommend such a setup. 1 Likes
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