Bad tire; Very lucky April 17, 2018, 08:17:36 pm The Short StoryWe recently drove our 2011, 27’ MB 700 miles over three days with a vibration felt in the steering when above 40 MPH. The vibration appeared out of nowhere and got steadily worse.We attempted to find the source of the vibration in several ways at multiple times, all to no avail.Upon returning home, we made an appointment with an alignment and suspension shop, and while airing the tires to be sure they were perfect for the shop (70 front; 80 back), discovered that the driver-side outer dually is disintegrating and the tread badly worn. The tire was fine when we started the trip. I will speculate that the slowly failing tire was the problem, rather than a different problem resulting in the premature tire failure. But, I really don’t know. Photos below.I must admit that I didn’t consider the rear tires to be a possible source of the vibration and didn’t check them carefully. Lesson learned.All tires are Michelin LTX M/S. All tires are just shy of 5 years old. DOT dates vary but are all in the vicinity of 4513. All tires, including the spare, will be replaced tomorrow with the same brand/model tire.Our LD will go to the alignment and suspension shop the next day.The Long StoryA recent Saturday morning at 3 AM, we eased our 27’ MB (Sidra) onto the freeway in Encinitas, CA, and I immediately noticed a vibration that could be felt in the steering and commented on it to my wife, Sue. There had been no such vibration on our last outing. Via the EezTire TPMS, we verified tire pressures: 70 front, 80 back. Sidra is our first motorhome; we have had her since June of 2017. Since then we have made several trips, adding about 4K miles to the odometer.The vibration was completely new and I couldn’t help but constantly monitor it because it was plenty noticeable. I quickly considered the things I thought could be its source, and I also quickly rationalized that it wasn’t so serious as to warrant aborting the trip. This was a poor rationalization. A beginner’s mistake. On this trip, which included my younger son, we were on our way to San Simeon State Park to meet up with my daughter-in-law, who had just finished a two-week gray whale survey at Point Piedras Blancas. We kept our speed to 55-60, monitored tire pressures constantly, and made it to San Simeon SP without incident, or any appreciable change in the vibration. San Simeon was gorgeous. I mean, breathtakingly gorgeous. We had several outstanding hikes, a personal, behind-the-scenes tour of the Piedras Blancas Light House facilities, and an epic campfire at sunset under a clear sky that ended with s’mores, constellation naming, and a clear view of the space station transiting north-west to north-east.On Monday morning, my son and daughter-in-law drove home and Sue and I drove SR 46 to Paso Robles, stopping to sample wine at Grey Wolf (recommended), and then on to El Chorro Regional Park. The vibration was noticeable whenever we got over 40 MPH. My concern continued to grow.We were backed into our campsite at El Chorro and the levelers lifted the front end just off the tires. So, Tuesday I crawled under the front end and examined and tugged on everything related to front end steering and suspension. Everything looked fine. I spun the tires; they were round and had even tread wear.On Wednesday morning we saddled up for the long drive home. And, of course, the now all-too-familiar vibration made itself known. Again, we drove slowly. The vibration was fairly mild at 48 MPH and again at 58 MPH. Above 58 MPH was terrible. We stopped in Buellton and I asked Sue to stand on the curb and then the median to watch the passenger side wheels and then the driver side wheels while I drove by her at around 40 MPH. She reported nothing discernable to the eye. We drove on. We stopped at Vista Point north of Refugio SP and, as an experiment, I let 4 lbs of pressure out of each tire (front to 74 from 78; back to 84 from 88). The change didn’t affect the vibration. We pressed on.LA traffic slowed us down and as we got back up to speed south of Long Beach the vibration took on a modulating effect. Very noticeable for 2 seconds, softer and less noticeable for 2 seconds, repeating. And that carried on until we got off the freeway in Encinitas.This morning I called Alignment Plus for an appointment and then went out to Sidra to ensure that all the tires were properly aired (70 front; 80 back). And as I was airing the outer left dually, I noticed a substantial problem. The outer tread at the top of the sidewall is disintegrating. The adjacent tread was worn to zero. We were very lucky not to have had a blowout.Tomorrow the tires will be replaced. The following day we’ll get a full steering/suspension evaluation. Your thoughts?Jim
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #1 – April 17, 2018, 08:33:42 pm Quote from: CBSShermans - April 17, 2018, 08:17:36 pmdiscovered that the driver-side outer dually is disintegrating and the tread badly worn. All tires are just shy of 5 years old. DOT dates vary but are all in the vicinity of 4513. Forgot to capture it in my clipped quote, but you have only had the coach a year.Previous owner could have hit something with that tire since it's an outer dual. It could also have been run severely underinflated at some point - you just don't know.Don't kick yourself. Replacing all tires is a good idea. Even with our DP and the $500+ per tire cost, we replaced them every 5 - 5 1/2 years. It's a small price to pay for overall safety. 3 Likes
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #2 – April 17, 2018, 09:14:11 pm Thanks for the kind words, Michelle. Yes, safety first. I'm kicking myself a bit for that.I should mention that we had a belated "pre-purchase" inspection at Kearny Pearson Ford about 8 weeks ago. They are a large dealership that services commercial trucks, as well as light vehicles. I was very satisfied with the inspection. They didn't have anything to say about the tires except that they couldn't find the spare, which of course was locked in a basement compartment, so it was really on me.Jim 1 Likes
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #3 – April 17, 2018, 09:38:58 pm Quote from: CBSShermans - April 17, 2018, 09:14:11 pmI should mention that we had a belated "pre-purchase" inspection at Kearny Pearson Ford about 8 weeks ago. They are a large dealership that services commercial trucks, as well as light vehicles. I was very satisfied with the inspection. They didn't have anything to say about the tires except that they couldn't find the spare, which of course was locked in a basement compartment, so it was really on me.Many dealerships don't bother to look at the DOT codes on tires or really the tires themselves. Unlike most vehicles, RV tires do need to be checked for weights, DOT codes, etc. and that's typically outside the usual inspection check.
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #4 – April 17, 2018, 10:39:23 pm Jim & Sue,Your experience is indeed harrowing. I would have been an absolute wreck. You persevered and did an admirable job to continue forward and keep a watchful eye. So glad you made it home safely.September of ‘17 my brother drove from Colorado to Arizona to finalise his purchase of ten year old Jayco Class C. While he inspected his rig at the dealership, I questioned him about the age of all the tires. I instructed him on the DOT and had him send pictures of all the dates and condition of the tires.Only one was less than 3 years old. Several were approaching 9. The photos revealed cracking and side wall delamination. I advised him to pass on the deal. He didn’t, but instead drove the rig home without a TPMS. He was very fortunate to arrive home safely. Now, he was no stranger to RV blowouts and I was dismayed that he didn’t at least replace the tires while in Arizona. He did replace all 7 when he arrived home and installed a TPMS.Is there something to learn here? Yeah, I think so. Not all RV owners take diligent care of their rigs. His new rig had no matching manufactures tires. Each had different DOT’s and they looked in horrible shape although the dealership did manage to throw a rather liberal coating of Amour-all on the tires. They looked great from a distance, but all the shine in the world won’t change the facts. Harkens back to the movie “Christine”. Some things just don’t shine up well under closer inspection.Happy you arrived home safely. Best wishes for all your further travels. Kent 1 Likes
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #5 – April 18, 2018, 01:41:21 am Jim and Sue; 4513 as the date code, this week is the 16th week of 18, so that tire was more than six months away from its 5 year birthday. That one should have been in better shape. It is clear that there was plenty of tread left, so I will concur with Michelle that probably something happened to that tire in its earlier life to have it fail like that. Maybe when parked it was the one in the most sunlight. Don't forget to replace the spare. While it is protected from ozone and sunlight, they still will age-out. I might let the spare go to 6 years, if it hasn't been on the ground. I recently replaced a friends (new to him) MidBath spare, that had been run on for five years, and then put in as a spare for another 6. At 11 years old and worn, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to ever use it. RonB
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #6 – April 18, 2018, 10:07:41 am Jim,Luck you. My Ford Focus had a ply separation on a 3000 mile trip with similar symptoms. The tires were rotated before the trip. No one saw a problem.Looking at the adjoining dual has a similar wear pattern. Were the tires rotated? Does the front have an alignment problem?
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #7 – April 18, 2018, 06:32:20 pm Jim, my tire expertise is limited, but I noticed two things in Tire4. First, of the 5 ribs, 2 and 3 are badly worn. Four and 5 look ok. The outer rib seems to have one wear spot on the lower portion visible. That wear pattern suggests two possibilities. Improper inflation was my first thought, but a damaged wheel, so that the tire is not turning uniformly was my second. When you go to the alignment shop, have them check out that wheel.Ken F in CA
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #8 – April 23, 2018, 12:10:05 pm A quick update.Seven new Michelin Defender LTX M/S tires later, we moved on to Alignment Plus in San Marcos. After a road test (technician at the wheel) and inspection, the report was that the rear end is perfect, tracking straight and true. The front end report called out:• Badly worn inner pivot bushings that had become ovoid• Wheels need alignment• Needs camber/caster alignment eccentrics (bushings)• Will check the front wheel bearings as part of the alignment workWork performed: • Inner pivot bushings replaced; required dropping the front axle; $$ for labor• Adjusted the wheel bearing lash; I did not think to ask for a spec on the gap or torque• Wheel alignment; following are the before and after settings LF = Left Front; RF = Right Front Camber: before LF/RF: +0.875, +0.500 after LF/RF: -0.375, -0.375 Caster: before LF/RF: +6.50, +5.00 after LF/RF +5.00, +5.75 Toe: before LF/RF: 1/4" after LF/RF: 1/8" Rear track thrust angle: +0.00 (before and after)After the work was complete, we took another road test, this time with me at the wheel. Zero vibration. Much, much quieter! Handling at >50 mph was much better than at any time since we purchased Sidra last June. Maybe a little wandering; I need more drive time to evaluate.Total cost: $887.67 Incidentally, like Henderson’s in Grants Pass, I was offered SuperSteer, Roadmaster, Koni, and Safe-T-Plus add-ons. We are following Larry Wade’s advice:http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=30791.msg180518#msg180518. Thanks, Larry! “IMO, if the steering and suspension are not up to your liking, start with the basics and make sure the steering and suspension parts are in good shape and it has a proper alignment. Check the sway bar bushings and replace them if they show signs of wear. Make sure all four shock absorber's bushings are adjusted tight. Finally have your rig weighed and then set the tires to the proper pressure as specified by the tire manufacturer or by using the chart in the LD Owner's Manual.”We still need to get Sidra weighed.Jim 1 Likes
Re: Bad tire; Very lucky Reply #9 – April 23, 2018, 12:21:28 pm Thanks for this follow-up report! It's always helpful to have the "rest of the story"!Larry's advice to check the "basics" before trying to bandaid issues with aftermarket add-ons - and very probably not identify and correct the underlying problems - is right on. I would also suggest following Ken Fears' advice from a previous post, i.e., checking the front wheels for true/"round" and any damage that was possibly done by the previous owner from hitting a curb or some other obstacle. 1 Likes
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