Pex brand opinions January 30, 2018, 01:02:35 am I am going to do some plumbing upgrades to the original plumbing in our 1989 TK.We have the old grey plastic tubing (Polybutylene tubing I would guess). I wanted to get some opinions from those that know Pex and what they preferred to use for this.I have used uponor pex in houses - with their expansion tool to make connections. I do not have access to this tool at this time and I am not inclined to go buy a new/used one (they are pricy).I know about the crimp on style of pex though I have not used that.Home Depot & Lowes sell Apollo, I don't know the quality of this brand nor it's tools. I know when I first checked it out about 10 years ago it was stiffer and If I remember right the walls were not as thick as the uponor pex. A plumbing supply house would have more choices (we have a Ferguson's close by and others within reasonable driving distance). Amazon is always a choice.I have used sharkbites before in temporary situations (e.g. cap off old copper plumbing that will be replaced in the near future while other work is being done). But I have also seen it not fit well (doesn't fit old copper pipes that had a different outside diameter exactly) therefore it did a slow leak - ok for a temp situation but it left me leery of using it in permanent situations and since we have old pipes not currently used I would not be surprised if I hit that same situation when connecting to old items things that will stay there, like the fresh water tank.Anyone have opinions on the type of pex to use that has decent fittings and reasonable priced tools?I read that people look for 1/2" ID (internal diameter). Is that the standard people use/are used in the newer LDs? As I touch different areas, I want to add shut off values like others have done (either side of water pump, for sinks, not sure what else). It would be nice to use light weight pex fittings for these.Project planned:New water pump - it is 14.5 years old and looks like it is giving up the ghost - it seems cheaper to install a new one myself vs try to get it repaired.Bathroom sink - new faucet & real diverter (not the pull up on on the top of the sink). Kitchen sink - replace faucet.We are not planning any permanent water conditioners/water purification systems at this time and will likely use an inline water conditioner and bottled water for drinking/cooking.Being a TK, since all the plumbing is very close together (under one side of the sink cabinets and thru the adjoining wall to the bathroom), it might be just as easy to replace it all with pex at once (around water pump, under both sinks to create shutoff valves, and from fresh water tank. I have not yet looked at how easy it would be to replace the plumbing to the water heater and back or to the toilet but the rest is all very close together.I like what Larry did putting a water strainer between the hose filling the fresh water and the fresh water tank and any water conditioners instead of putting the sureflo one in with our water pump under the kitchen drawers - especially since the reviews on the surflo water strainer is mixed (e.g. several people on Amazon said it cracked easily within the first 2 years).Larry, If you have a link of what you used I would be interested (I am looking for something less than a commercial one but more than the little ones that go inside of water hoses).Thanks,Jane
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #1 – January 30, 2018, 07:15:00 am Jane-The stuff at HD is fine. You'll want the copper ring crimp tool and/or the stainless steel ring crimp tool. I own both. I prefer the copper rings, but sometimes the smaller tool (stainless rings) is needed to work in tight spaces. I also own the copper ring removal tool. There is no dedicated tool for removing stainless rings.When you tie into the existing piping, be sure to use the polybutylene-to-PEX adapter.The Uponor system is cool. I used it to install our home's radiant floor heat system tubing. But I had no need for the tool afterwards.Since the LD is new to you, you may want to analyze a bit how it works and make changes only if necessary. I suspect many an LD has completely original piping. I added a bypass to the water heater, and antifreeze injection valve, and moved the water pump to under the vanity, the last being a "want to," rather than a "need to."1/2" is the correct size for the PEX.As far as fittings go, I prefer well-made metal ones over plastic. Whatever you choose, make sure you allow for their replacement. I dislike having to rip out whole sections of piping to replace a fitting.
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #2 – January 30, 2018, 10:56:23 am I have been using Plastic shark bite equivilent for a couple of years on Gray PEX. I had one reseal issue in about 20 connectionslI just could not see how to get the crimping tool into the tight spaces in the cabinets. Much less the cost of the tool. This encompasses a 1991 Coachman RB-19V and 1988 LD MB.
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #3 – January 30, 2018, 12:29:36 pm As mentioned before, the gray PEX is a slighty different size.As issue the older LD have with PEX is cracking of the fittings.I hope Steve see this, he plumbed a good portion of his old 1983 LD.PEX crimps can be difficult or impossible to use in many situations, due to the tight quarters.Push to fit fittings (Shark Bite-Type) are a good choice and are what I have used the majority of the time when working on PEX. Crimps are best...if you can get to them.LDs are plumbed with 1/2" PEX .Adding shut off valves isn't a bad idea if you have the plumbing opened up but I sure would mess with any of it if not necessary.There are other, simpler ways to handle leaks, plus the added vales are another potential source of leaks.We carry plugs to temporially cap off a faucet's water lines, in case a faucet starts leaking.https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157607802072647/If the water pump needs work, I shut the supply line off, using pinch-off pliers.K-D Tools 3791 3/4" Hose Pinch-Off Pliers - - Amazon.comThe go-to water pump these days is the ShurFlow Revolution 4008SHURFLO 4008-101-A65 New 3.0 GPM RV Water Pump Revolution, 12V - - Amazon.comMany add leakage detectors, located under the pump. It is the most common source and location of leakage.Zircon 64003 Leak Alert Electronic Water Detector, 1-Pack - Sump Pump...We do not have a filter in the water tank supply line, in our LD the water enters through the fresh water tank's drain line via a quick disconnect fitting.https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602095133804/A inline hose filter can be connected between the hose and filler.https://www.amazon.com/Camco-TastePURE-Chlorine-Sediment-Drinking/dp/B0024E6V30?psc=1&SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0024E6V30To provide safe drinking water, an under-counter cartridge filter is used with a deck mounted faucet.https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/C3202.htmEvery water pump I have installed (a lot) has used the provided inlet water strainer. It's there for a good reason and the manufacturer wouldn't have spent the money on it, if it wasn't needed.The inlet filter is there to protect the pump, not you. It's strainer is a wire mesh that takes out sand and small gravel which can damage or jam the check valves or pump diaphragm. It does not filter the water against pathogens. In the last 23 years of LD ownership, I have never seen one go bad or crack and leak.A problem with the internet is that you heard a lot about things that go bad but rarely about things that do not cause problems.Larry As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #4 – January 30, 2018, 12:52:14 pm Quote from: Larry W - January 30, 2018, 12:29:36 pmAs mentioned before, the gray PEX is a slighty different size.As issue the older LD have with PEX is cracking of the fittings.I hope Steve see this, he plumbed a good portion of his old 1983 LD.PEX, I believe, is polyethylene. Older LD models and certain vintages of housing plumbing used gray polybutylene tubing. If this is what the OP is referring to, it is a completely different animal. Our '83 used plastic flare fittings throughout, which cracked with age causing leaks. I kept the tubing - now illegal to sell - and replaced all the fittings with brass flare nuts, tees, and all other connecting components. Replacing all the tubing with PEX would have required a lot more work, and adapters would be needed everywhere the flare nuts made connections to faucets, tanks, etc., but might be worth it...Steve
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #5 – January 30, 2018, 02:20:05 pm Thanks for the info, yes the gray tubing (polybutylene Steve says) is what we have now.Steve, what did you use for your fittings? I am seeing brass fittings for polybutylene piping several places including home depot, amazon, and supply houses. Having worked with old pipes in houses I know some of the fittings are not precise and of course I want the connection secure with no future leaks.Larry a strainer/filter as part of the pump was our first guess but the tech support guy at sureflo said there was none. I will try another tech/see if I can find diagrams somewhere.
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #6 – January 30, 2018, 02:29:00 pm I used brass 1/2" flare hardware. With conventional copper flaring tools, with practice, I was able to flare the poly tubing. The flared tubing end can then be tightened onto the fitting with the new brass flare nuts, and the end compresses for a tight seal. Never had any fail this way. I WAS able to purchase some polybutylene tubing at a local ACE Hardware to replace a few runs where the tubing was now too short with the old flared end cut off. This may no longer be possible, so I would consider the job carefully if you cannot find a source.Steve
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #7 – January 30, 2018, 02:48:06 pm Steve, you are saying you created new flares?Cut off the end of the pipe, then used a tool to expand the cut area to make a larger area at the end? I am including a link to home depot that shows this in conduit - not because it is the same piping but because for others it shows examples hopefully forever in the future of what the flared end of the pipe would look like Conduit - Electrical Boxes, Conduit & Fittings - The Home DepotI am going to have to think about that and other approaches, I am not sure I want to practice the learning curve to be good at it before using it but I did learn the uponor expansion tool in an hour or so and it has tricks to it that can only be learned by doing repeatedly.A side note for others, what Larry said earlier I have also heard from people in the plumbing industry - plumbing leaks where there is a break in a piece of pipe for a fitting/fixture (e.g. any turns, any shut off values, at the faucet connections, etc.). Not typically in the middle of a piece of pipe. One reason pex is so valued these days, it turns corners without any fittings required, just string it along like a hose (attaching it to walls, floors, etc. as per manufacturing specs). Pex was not as good when it was new, but I have seen it installed for almost 20 years now so it is pretty robust.
Re: Pex brand opinions Reply #8 – January 30, 2018, 03:09:13 pm Quote from: JandS2 - January 30, 2018, 02:48:06 pmSteve, you are saying you created new flares?Cut off the end of the pipe, then used a tool to expand the cut area to make a larger area at the end? I am including a link to home depot that shows this in conduit - not because it is the same piping but because for others it shows examples hopefully forever in the future of what the flared end of the pipe would look like Conduit - Electrical Boxes, Conduit & Fittings - The Home DepotNo. If you remove one of the flare nuts, you will see what the flared tubing end should look like. Fittings, tools:Eastman 3/16 in. to 5/8 in. Tube Flaring Tool-45033 - The Home DepotEverbilt Lead Free Brass Short Forged Flare Nuts 1/2 in. I.D. (2-Pack)-801329...Everbilt Lead-Free Brass Flare Tee 1/2 in.-801479 - The Home DepotSteve
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