Butt disconnects for switches - size question

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Butt disconnects for switches - size question

October 15, 2017, 01:28:32 am

We are doing some electrical work, adding some outlets and fixing a switch that had a short in it.

The switches - 12V were connected with yellow butt disconnectors,

I wanted to replace the connectors as often that is where the problem is.
There is different size wires - the white and red are marked 12awg (not sure about the yellow but it looks smaller).

The problem:
Two of the white/red wires do not fit into the butt connector. One red/white does fit and two yellow will fit.

A local RV repair place where I bought yellow butt disconnects said on the phone that he had some red that were larger (he was not sure of the size). But he said any auto parts store would also carry them.

I went by an auto parts store - he said the blue were bigger than the yellow (didn’t seem right to me based on gauges listed but I figured Rv/auto/DC might be different - I know houses not vehicle wiring) and we got the assortment package.

The blues are smaller than the yellow, and the reds are even smaller.
An internet search showed only 3 colors made (listed wire sizes), yellow was the largest.

I wanted to get opinions on solutions.

1) I can pig tail the wires, put wire nuts on them, and leave them in the walk (no gangbox there but it is 12V, I could add one - it is the wall between the doorway entryway and the front cab, on a TK).
Then I would only have one wire going into each butt disconnect.

2) I could use the yellow butt disconnects, allow the sheathing of the wires to be outside of the yellow butt disconnect sheathing and use some 3M 10 year heavy duty electrical tape to securely cover any bare wire between the butt disconnect sheathing and the wire sheathing. Making it very secure - and we are talking about only 12V.

3). Find some knowledgeable person who says the internet is wrong and there is larger butt disconnects. Note the original wiring had the yellow shielding on the butt disconnects torn- I don’t know if that happened during crimping or was done to gain extra room for shielded wires or just wear and tear over time.

I do have pictures but didn’t see how to add them here.

Any opinions?
Thanks, Jane

Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #1 – October 15, 2017, 07:37:45 am

These would possibly work:
https://www.idealind.com/us/en/products/wire-termination/set-screw-connectors/set-screw-connectors/set-screw-wire-connectors.aspx

Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #2 – October 15, 2017, 09:41:47 am

Jane,

"Two of the white/red wires do not fit into the butt connector." I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want to do, but maybe this will help a little.

The small red butt splices are for 22-18 gauge wire, the blues are 16-14 gauge, and the yellows are 12-10 gauge. Butt splices are typically used to extend a length of wire for some reason, for example to move a device further away from a current location requiring a short addition of wire, or perhaps a burnt wire that when trimmed back to good wire is not long enough any more. One wire in, one out of the butt splice. To join a pair of wires in one connector, I use wire nuts. For #12 wire, yellow wire nuts are the right ones to use. Gardner Bender 19-084 WingGard Screw-On Electrical Wire Connectors, Tough...

When making them up, I never twist the wires together before inserting into the wire nut. Strip them, make sure there are no 'whiskers' on either wire, then insert them together into the wire nut. Twist until the nut feels tight on the wires, (if it's at all loose, it's not a good connection). I then pull both wires individually to make sure I can't pull either out. Finally, a turn or two of good electrical tape at the base if you want.

Hope this is helpful!

Bill

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Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #3 – October 15, 2017, 10:20:42 am

Jane,
At the factories they often have "professional" crimping tools that can accommodate the various wire sizes. The home and after market sectors don't seem to accommodate these spade connectors well. When this happens to me, I assemble pig tail from a 6" piece of #12 wire(20amps) with a yellow spade connector. I then hook my new piece to the wires from the old spade connector with an appropriate wire nut. Pull on all wires to make sure they are all coptured in the wire nut or connector.

My 1988 had one of the monster blue wire nuts for the 12 volt ground under the converter. It was heating up with the fans and added solar panels. I replaced it with a ground buss bar from the AC breaker parts section of the hardware store. No insulation was used as it was ground side of the 12 volt coach system.

Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #4 – October 15, 2017, 11:07:57 am

Quote from: rodneyhelfrich - October 15, 2017, 10:20:42 am

My 1988 had one of the monster blue wire nuts for the 12 volt ground under the converter. It was heating up with the fans and added solar panels. I replaced it with a ground buss bar from the AC breaker parts section of the hardware store. No insulation was used as it was ground side of the 12 volt coach system.

A terminal board works well for joining large wires.
I'm not a huge fan of wire nuts, many times preferring to eliminate them and, instead, solder the wires together. Once taped or covered with heat shrink tubing, loose wires get secured using zip ties and screwed clamps.
I use a lot of crimped fittings for electronics and switches but rarely use them to join wires.
I have seen a lot of failed connections using wire nuts and crimped fitting but have never had a properly done solder connection fail.

Larry

Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #5 – October 15, 2017, 09:32:53 pm

I agree with Larry, soldering is the best bet and if done correctly it will not fail. Wire nuts or crimping will not give a guaranteed connection and can leave you pulling your hair out!
Good Luck, Paul

Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #6 – October 18, 2017, 01:44:28 pm

“I have seen a lot of failed connections using wire nuts and crimped fitting but have never had a properly done solder connection fail.”

I’d suggest that “properly done” are the relevant words for any electrical connections. My experience with failed connections, be it at a lug on a terminal strip, a spade connector, a butt splice or a wire nut is that they have been used incorrectly, or, most often, either start out as a loose connection, or become loose over time. This could be due to the connection not being completed correctly in the first place; vibration often plays a role on any type of running machinery, and, wires under any sort of stress\tension can cause problems.

I certainly wouldn’t say a wire nut connection is better than a soldered connection. But, I’ve used wire nuts in my trade for nearly forty years as a practicality. When the correct wire nut is used (not too big or too small), is carefully made up, and the wires taped, cable tied, or otherwise secured when it’s appropriate, I've found it will provide a safe, reliable, long term method of connecting two or more conductors mechanically and electrically.

As always, YEMV

Re: Butt disconnects for switches - size question

Reply #7 – November 14, 2017, 03:48:46 am

Thanks for all the info. Rodney, I didn't even think of putting in a ground buss bar. That would be a nice but I would rather it be in a grounded box and no ground wire at this location (switches & lights).

I am amazed the wire nuts are fine in this old RV. And making a good connection makes a difference, I agree with those that said that.

We decided to go with putting in a gangbox and doing pigtails and can then have one wire per butt connector. If a wirenut comes off we are protected and with the wire held tight with the entries into the gangbox, it should not have a lot of movement. This being a vertical run vs a horizontal run makes me more concerned about the wires pulling on a connector over time so the gangbox helps mitigate that concern of mine.

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