LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights June 14, 2017, 10:50:17 pm Hi,Greenhorn Lazy Dazer here, as of 2 weeks ago proud owner of '2005 26.5 mid bath LD.Previous owners of my rig lost actual manual ;-(I am looking for actual weights limits (GVWR, CCC, GCVWR) for this particular model.My TOAD would be Wrangler Unlimited, which with some extra cargo would total at 5k lbs. With 1k over hitch limit I found great certified welders in MA who will enforce hitch by welding extra braces few feet back to original E450 chassis frame, omitting LD's base frame extensions.That being said, I would like to get my math in order when it comes to this model.I believe that GVWR should be ~14500lbs and GCVWR 20000lbs, yet read somewhere on the forum that prior to 2008 models, GVWR is actually at 14050lbs.Can anyone help me out here with exact numbers for this year and model? Thank you in advance,Michal
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #1 – June 15, 2017, 01:29:20 am Quote from: michal.roguski - June 14, 2017, 10:50:17 pmI am looking for actual weights limits (GVWR, CCC, GCVWR) for this particular model.My TOAD would be Wrangler Unlimited, which with some extra cargo would total at 5k lbs. With 1k over hitch limit I found great certified welders in MA who will enforce hitch by welding extra braces few feet back to original E450 chassis frame, omitting LD's base frame extensions.I believe that GVWR should be ~14500lbs and GCVWR 20000lbs, yet read somewhere on the forum that prior to 2008 models, GVWR is actually at 14050lbsYour 2005 MB has a GVW of 14,050-lbs and GCWR of 20,000-lbsPulling a 4-door Wrangler is pushing the total load to near the capacity of the chassis, not the best way to achieve a long life.Larry 2 Likes
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #2 – June 15, 2017, 11:10:38 am Larry,Thank you, those numbers will help me out with planning.With number of modifications to my LD and Wrangler I am targeting max of 18k lbs of GCVWR.Michal
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #3 – June 15, 2017, 11:38:57 am Quote from: michal.roguski - June 15, 2017, 11:10:38 amThank you, those numbers will help me out with planning.With number of modifications to my LD and Wrangler I am targeting max of 18k lbs of GCVWR.To limit the weight to 18,000-lbs, the MB cannot weigh over 13,000-lbsAccording to the Factory specs, a 2005 MB has a CCC of 1541-lbThat will require reducing the MB's cargo load to only 490-lbs, a couple hundred more if you only travel with two passenger.Plan on traveling light.Pulling our lighter 4000-lb Cherokee behind our lighter 23.5' FL, the weight is still over 17,000-lbs, when fully loaded for our summer trips. Weight adds up fast.Larry
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #4 – June 15, 2017, 11:55:26 am Minimalism is great game in my book.But additionally to living light, I am about to remodel coach itself a bit.Some of stock items, like back couches, toilet, large glass mirrors, dinette; will be replaced with with much lighter modern equivalents. I am also toying with idea of replacing all cabinet doors to composites and batteries to Li-Ion.My end goal is to lighten coach itself by ~700 lbs with all the mods to gain extra CCC.I will report on the progress!Once again, thanks Larry.Michal
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #5 – June 15, 2017, 04:57:05 pm Very interesting. On a mission. Aluminium wheels too? You may remove stuff and weigh it to see the difference before you go to the point of no return. Also LD is made really well so tearing things apart may not allow you to return to normal should you change your (dinette for example). Keep us posted.Ron SarzynskiRon Sarzynski
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #6 – June 15, 2017, 05:26:02 pm The trim strips are wood, but the LD's cabinet doors are already a ''composite" material; the wood grain appearance is a photographed vinyl laminated to the 1/8" composite. I don't think that any weight saving gained - and I suspect that it would not be much - from changing out the cabinet doors would be worth the expense and hassle, but YMMV.What are the specific "modern equivalents" to the toilet, dinette, etc., that you're considering?
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #7 – June 15, 2017, 06:47:51 pm Quote from: michal.roguski - June 15, 2017, 11:55:26 amMy end goal is to lighten coach itself by ~700 lbs with all the mods to gain extra CCC.Not sure at all where you can eliminate 700-lbs without ripping much the interior out.The interior is already built fairly light and it is all glued together so removing anything is going to destroy it.I have worked on LDs for over twenty years and have no idea how to remove this much weight from the coach without destroying its beauty and utility. Changing to lithium is going to be very expensive. AM Solar's kit, that replaces the lead-acid batteries, sells for over $3000.It's still a new technology for motorhomes and the prices have not come down yet. I'm not an early adopter of this costly technology, preferring that others do the experimenting. The price per pound of weight savings will be high.To tow a 5000-lb vehicle will require adding a lot of steel to the frame and hitch assembly, which will negate much of the weight saving inside. Some run with an empty water tank, to save weight but this can backfire when the campground you '"knew" had water, doesn't.Been there, done that...and will not do it again.If it were me, I would go ahead and reinforce the hitch, pack light and run it, as is.Save the extra money for the repairs that running heavy will eventually require.This will keep your LD intact and worth something, when the day comes to sell it.Larry
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #8 – June 15, 2017, 09:06:55 pm I learned a lot in my first few years of LD ownership. Things that I thought essential turned out not to be. Other things that at first didn't get much consideration later did.The easiest weight to adjust is what you carry or tow, not what is built into your motorhome. Unlike many RVs, the LD is an integrated design with pretty much every component integrated with or related to others. The cabinets aren't just cabinets. They're an integral part of the structure adding rigidity at the corners. Each floor plan has evolved over the years in very careful and deliberate ways, not in pursuit of fashion but in pursuit of function. Construction methods are chosen not for simplicity but for strength and durability. And lightness. Those cabinets aren't attached late in the game, like in a house. They're attached early as part of the structure with screws sunk from outside the motorhome frame into the cabinets. Yet they're relatively light. We tow a 2004 Wrangler TJ. But don't really use its capabilities much anymore. If I was doing it today I'd get something much lighter. And I'd definitely stay away from JKs. Heavy. My suggestion would be to slow down. Pack your LD with what you need or would like to have along, buy a nice used two door TJ if you see a lot of "wheeling " in your future (but an economy car if you don't and are just after Jeep style) and set it up for towing. Then travel for a year or two before you start ripping things apart, something you might regret if done in haste. And then make a trip to the LD factory and get their input and advice before you do anything major. For example I might decide to take out one of our couches to replace it with a desk. LD would say "What are you going to do with the 60 gallon water tank under that one or the outside storage under the other?"Finally, consider resale. I think most buyers would prefer a MOL stock LD to one that has been modified in fundamental ways. You may not see resale in your future but the classified ads are full of RVs that "didn't work out."But of course it's your LD so do as you wish. Terry2003 26.5' RBGardnerville, NV 4 Likes
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #9 – June 15, 2017, 09:10:54 pm Michal, this is an interesting idea for a new thread- weight reduction. I think many here have different ideas about the way they relate to their LD, and how far and how much they would go to save weight. Plastic toilet to replace the porcelain?Remove cabinet doors and replace with Coroplast sliders? Remove valances around windows? Remove accordion door? Lithium batteries? Lose the spare tire? When we remodeled we removed about 56#, net after added back improvements. In old E350 based MB units, and the 31' Lazy Daze one has to be on guard against loading up too much. We empty everything each year and evaluate whether it goes back in or not based on room, weight, utility. IMO 700# is a big challenge calling for compromises I would not make. But hauling a little toad is appealing... 1 Likes
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #10 – June 18, 2017, 08:18:27 pm Thank you all for kind words and good advice for hyped up greenhorn.I did more research following some of your advice and did a bit of math.My 700lbs shavings were indeed quite ambitious.I need to introduce few modifications regardless of weight in order to work on the road.So here is altered plan I will start on executing:1.) First, TOAD has to change. I need a vehicle large enough to sleep in it and offroad capable, as I am planning on some remote hiking trips away from LD mothership left in RV park. Wrangler Unlimited was large enough for this task, 2 door just to short to get my human frame accommodated. Combining large size, offroad capabilities and weight, got me to switching plan over to Jeep Patriot. Models from 2011-2012 with manual transmission are clocking at 3150lbs, so 1150 lbs saved plus additional weight saved with abandoned hitch reinforcement. Thank you all for the advice.2.) I need to convert dinette to regular size working desk. It is necessity to keep my full time working schedule. I understand that cabinetry is part of overall structure. I am planning on removing dinette table and the seats but leave in seat backboards as they are connecting walls and floor enforcing perpendicular surfaces stability. Backboards will be used as support for honeycomb style table top - offering huge weight saving with no compromise in durability. 3.) Replacement of all mirrors (bathroom, closet) to acrylic mirrors is best 1:1 replacement bringing another saving. 4.) Switching toilet (it is not in best condition now) to something like:Amazon.com: Dometic 300 Series Standard Height Toilet, White: AutomotiveIt clocks at 8.2 lbs - anyone had experience with this or similar model?5.) Cabinets, I never intended to swap all cabinets (that is more a skoolie project), but just cabinet doors. Need to weigh actual current doors and compare to some plastic sliders. It may indeed not be worth it, especially if I want to use inner side of the doors as additional storage.6.) Back couches, those will go for sure. First i do not need king size conversion capability, and would like to find something more comfortable and lightweight. Terry Burnes, you mentioned:"For example I might decide to take out one of our couches to replace it with a desk. LD would say "What are you going to do with the 60 gallon water tank under that one or the outside storage under the other?""Not sure if I understand that correctly. What tanks have to do with it? Am I missing something?I have seen few remodels of LD's back area, much more invasive than just couch replacement:Box Canyon Blog .com: A Lazy Daze RV Remodel Update... Goldie's Done, For...Improving Gertie: the rear loungePer advice of making serious changes after spending more time on the road, I completely agree.Some changes I am leaving for future, more experienced version of myself:- aluminium wheels (if worth it)- switch to LiOn batteries (that will be combined/altered by overhaul of current solar system, Id like to bring up my 200W to 500W)- valances removalOnce again, thank you all for good words and good advice.I do not want to sweat worried about weight while hitting the Rockies, more than engine will.PS. Great thanks to Bruce P. for scanning whole 2005 M26.5 B manual, I did not expect such a great response.PS2. Bob Wells in his cult vlog just pushed new video of full time Lazy Dazer. Exactly same model even color as mine, serendipity here I come. Plus great extra pantry idea:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JNJGDkY-NAPlease stay assured, I will be popping up with a number of fresh delicious naive questions for time being.Perhaps a year from now I will be able to help out someone else ;-)Best,Michal As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #11 – June 18, 2017, 09:04:09 pm Michal, good luck with your project. In no particular order:If you are thinking of using the backs of cupboard doors for storage and adding a pantry, it seems you are working against your goal of losing weight. The stuff we bring adds up. You are a backpacker, so think of what you use on extended hikes- what more do you really need to bring in your camper?The cabinet doors weigh more than any other part of the cabinet. A project worth considering may be to replace them with Coroplast sliders in aluminum channels.If your MB is like mine, the couch on one side houses a water heater, and serves as the top of the exterior storage compartment- in your 2005 is the spare inside that compartment? There are lots of discussions here about that subject, to carry a spare or not, and the practicality of its location in that compartment. We modified the couch that covers the exterior storage compartment, removed the back and cushion, replaced the seat cushion with lighter, more comfortable foam. Saved about 12# and my wife has a bed that she finds as good as home.The couch on the other side? You may have already read everything by Andy Baird. If not, I recommend his writings- here is a post about removing a rear couch in a later model MB (not Gertie) : Upgrade frenzyOur MB is built on the barely adequate E350, so we battle our weight continually. Our travel is 6 month tours including all seasons. We weigh before leaving each trip and on the return leg to ensure we stay under the limit. If I had an E450 I would be a bit happier, because I would have my Abarth toad.
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #12 – June 18, 2017, 09:54:33 pm Paul,Thank you for all the info.Do you have any links for Coroplast sliding doors? Best, Michal
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #13 – June 18, 2017, 10:06:30 pm Nah, I find it at most sign shops or Home Depot or Amazon- Amazon.com: CoroplastHere is the source site- Manufacturer of Corrugated Plastic Sheets | CoroplastThen it is a matter of building, installing channels, and cutting the Coroplast to size with a razor knife. Cut some finger holes to open and close them, maybe paint on a serene scene and voila, light doors to keep stuff in the cupboard.
Re: LD 26.5 MB '2005 - weights Reply #14 – June 19, 2017, 12:25:12 am Michal,Just a few responses."Terry Burnes, you mentioned:'For example I might decide to take out one of our couches to replace it with a desk. LD would say "What are you going to do with the 60 gallon water tank under that one or the outside storage under the other?'Not sure if I understand that correctly. What [do] tanks have to do with it? Am I missing something?"Many motorhomes have stand alone couches made by firms such as Flexsteel. These are simply couches, often with a fold out bed inside, not much different than a residential couch and with little or no relationship to the rest of the motorhome. Want to replace it with a desk? No problem, just remove the couch and build a desk in its place. This isn't generally the case with Lazy Daze.I know the Rear Bath model best because that's what I own. Mine has two opposing couches in the living area. The one on the driver's side "contains" the water tank and an outside storage locker. The one on the passenger side "contains" another (very useful) outside storage locker. So if I were to remove, say, the driver's side couch I'd find the water tank and storage locker sitting there in its place.Yes, LD coaches have been modified. My guess is that some of those modifications were made in a location where LD might normally put two barrel chairs, not a couch (my passenger side couch is an option that replaces the barrel chairs with a couch and an additional outside storage locker underneath it). Others, like Andy, may have removed a couch in some way and replaced it with something else. (Note that in gaining a desk Andy lost an outside storage compartment. And a second couch.) My point is to find out what is under or "inside" your couches before going too far. Same with dinettes. My forward dinette seat is above or "contains," in part, the battery compartment. Mess with the seat and I'd be messing with that compartment.I'm not saying modifications to couches and dinettes can't be made but my sense is that in a LD those can be more complicated than they might be in some simpler motorhomes. There will be trade-offs. Learn what they will be.You mention sliding doors in place of LD's hinged doors. That could work. But one thing about sliding doors is that you must halve the access to the cabinet being modified. The cabinet is always going to be at least half closed. I'm not sure the positive weight savings would be worth that negative."Some changes I am leaving for future, more experienced version of myself:- aluminium wheels (if worth it)"We have Alcoa wheels on our LD. I got those because I dislike hubcaps, wheel covers, wheel liners, etc. I also dislike valve extenders of various sorts. But this is an example of something that sounded great to start but after awhile I learned the negatives. First, of course, cost. Second, the Alcoa wheels, as far as I could tell, aren't that much lighter than the steel wheels. Third, they come with a demanding maintenance routine if they're to stay looking like new. Finally, because the Alcoa wheels are "one-sided," unlike the steel wheels, they greatly complicate tire rotation. You basically have to dismount the tires to rotate them. I've simply given up on rotation instead. Doesn't seem to be a big problem so far, but an unintended negative side effect of what I initially saw as a wholly positive improvement.Finally, as to sleeping in a Jeep, there are some options to just purchasing a larger Jeep. We carry backpacking style camping gear in the LD. Tent, sleeping pads & bags, cooking gear, etc. We've taken off in our Jeep and camped that way away from the LD, which was left parked in an RV park. If you want something integrated with the Jeep there are several manufacturers of roof top tents with beds (more weight though). A six pound tent is a lot less weight than adding two doors to a Jeep.But do you really need a Jeep to go where you want to go? When I was in the USAF back in my youth I had a friend, quite the gearhead, who bought a new fully equipped IH Scout, 4WD, V-8, oversize tires, winch, the whole works. We had fun exploring the AZ desert. But the standing joke became that wherever we ended up we'd find some guy in a VW beetle and another guy in a '54 Buick.Terry2003 26.5'RBGardnerville, NV 4 Likes
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