Master 12 V Circuit Breaker - Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

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April 20, 2017, 04:51:28 pm

We have a 2001 26.5 ft mid-bath. Yesterday we took it to replace the break-pads and weld the generator exhaust pipe. Before welding my husband removed the truck and house battery cables. We washed the chassis and the outside of the truck. He reconnected the batteries. And since then, we have no electricity unless we're on the generator.

We're at the mechanic and no luck finding the source of the problem. Hoping to tap into the forum's collective wisdom.

We've tested all the fuses; charged the house batteries on a garage charger; cleaned all the connections including ground; blew air underneath the chassis to remove any moisture from the wash.

The charge controller inside the coach was flitting around. Now it is around 14. If we turn on a light, it immediately goes down to 9. If we turn on the water pump and open a faucet, the electricity cuts out immediately.

As I said, everything works normally if we are on the generator: lights, fridge, water. We've had no electrical problems before.

We've owned our LD for a year, and have had absolutely no problems. And we've put it to the test. We are a couple with four children traveling from the US to South America since July 2016. Right now we're in Peru. We've traveled roads that many of our overlanding friends said "you'll never get through". Immensely happy with our choice!

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #1 – April 20, 2017, 04:53:55 pm

Another detail: The electrician just attached a 12v directly to the 12v/120v center, and the electricity works.

Hope my terminology makes sense--got the Lazy Daze manual out and learning on the fly!

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #2 – April 20, 2017, 04:58:16 pm

It sounds like your batteries are not any good how old are they

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #3 – April 20, 2017, 05:12:04 pm

How many house batteries? Are they 6V or 12V batteries? Any chance you have two 6V batteries that were not reconnected properly?

Art

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #4 – April 20, 2017, 05:25:34 pm

We found the problem!

A 50amp circuit breaker on the cable between the center and house batteries, located underneath the fridge, that must have blown. I'm attaching a photo in case it helps others in the future.

Shared album - Cathy Bellafronto - Google Photos

Best,
Cathy

PS Art, we have two 6v batteries.

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #5 – April 20, 2017, 05:26:13 pm

I had some welding done on Tuesday, and also disconnected the house batteries. Take a look to make sure you got all the leads re-attached to the positive. I believe there were four on mine, and they wanted to run and hide when disconnected... (Haven't done an inventory of where they all go yet.)

Welding currents seek a path to ground, and if there's something better than what the welder has chosen, the current will find its better way. If he grounded to vehicle frame, and the frame-to-generator ground is weak, then another path may have been taken thru controllers, batteries, whatever. If something was weak but still working, stray welding currents may have done it in.

On edit...
And there you go. That breaker gave its life (or just tripped) for the cause, and probably saved you a heap of trouble. Onward!

Chip

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #6 – April 20, 2017, 06:47:49 pm

So it strikes another victim: that #$%^&*! hidden-in-a-drawer master breaker that Lazy Daze doesn't bother to label. :: sigh ::

For the record: midbath owners, pull out the drawer underneath the refrigerator and reach around to the left inside the open space. It's a gray lump about half the size of an ice cube. A tiny black button on one side (just barely visible on the left in Cathy's photo) resets it. Owners of other floorplans: have fun hunting for it! ;-)

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #7 – April 20, 2017, 11:13:49 pm

Quote from: Andy Baird - April 20, 2017, 06:47:49 pm

So it strikes another victim: that #$%^&*! hidden-in-a-drawer master breaker that Lazy Daze doesn't bother to label. :: sigh ::

For the record: midbath owners, pull out the drawer underneath the refrigerator and reach around to the left inside the open space. It's a gray lump about half the size of an ice cube. A tiny black button on one side (just barely visible on the left in Cathy's photo) resets it. Owners of other floorplans: have fun hunting for it! ;-)

I believe in our '02 30' it's in the same area under the fridge.
Chris

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #8 – April 21, 2017, 01:01:18 am

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. For whatever reason the 12volt 50 amp breaker "popped".

The breaker is located somewhere inside the coach. It has been located in the MB so where is it in the other LD coaches?

In my '15 RB manual on the last page is the diagram of the coach electrical connections.

If I am not mistaken the mystery breaker is diagramed on this page above the battery and labelled "Circuit Breaker Manual Reset" 12 volt 50 amp and is in the coach within 18 inches of the house batteries.

I haven't actually seen it in real life (or have I?) but by the description it may be near the dinette seat toward the front of the coach. But I've been there many times and never saw such a breaker.

While viewing some pics of my battery compartment I did find what looks to be a breaker and I wonder if this may be the breaker in question. I've included the manuals diagram and pics of the battery compartment.

Any other RB owners find theirs yet?

Eyes wide open.

Kent

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #9 – April 21, 2017, 06:21:00 am

Kent, that is indeed a breaker. If it ever trips, a yellow lever will pop out of the left side at an angle. (You can test by pressing the red button.) To reset, push the arm back in. It's a much better quality breaker than the tiny, cheap one used in my 2003 coach.

Now, is that the breaker shown in the drawing from the manual? Maybe, but the only way to be certain is to follow the wires. One wire should go directly to the positive battery post, and the other should head toward the Parallax power center.

"Located within 18" of the house batteries" is pretty vague, and the breaker shown in the manual's drawing looks nothing like either my tiny one or your larger one. You'd think they could at least put a label on the actual part, saying "MASTER 12V BREAKER." Unfortunately, LD's electrical documentation leaves a lot to be desired--especially considering it's something that can shut down your entire 12 V power system!

One other thing: the LD drawing calls for a 50 A breaker, but it looks as if the one in your photo is 90 amps. That *should* still be safe for AWG 6 wire, but it's a big jump. They really ought to update their drawing.

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #10 – April 21, 2017, 07:25:23 am

On the 1997 mid-bath, that breaker is inside the space under the rear dinette bench. It's attached to the rear inside corner. The under-bench space is directly above the battery storage compartment on that year MB.

Mark H

Re: Sudden loss of electricity in the coach

Reply #11 – April 21, 2017, 11:58:52 am

Quote from: Andy Baird - April 20, 2017, 06:47:49 pm

So it strikes another victim: that #$%^&*! hidden-in-a-drawer master breaker that Lazy Daze doesn't bother to label. :: sigh ::

For the record: midbath owners, pull out the drawer underneath the refrigerator and reach around to the left inside the open space. It's a gray lump about half the size of an ice cube. A tiny black button on one side (just barely visible on the left in Cathy's photo) resets it. Owners of other floorplans: have fun hunting for it! ;-)

Lazy Daze does a lousy job identifying the location or even existence of the circuit breaker, providing few clues as to where it is and what it looks like.
It is hidden in a different place, in each floorpan, and even this can change from year to year.

I have found many circuit breakers with high internal resistance, which reduces battery charging efficiently and can cause all sorts of strange electrical problems, very similar to a bad Factory battery switch.
It's worth the effort to occasionally check the resistance, across the circuit breaker, to make sure the contacts are still clean and free of excessive resistance. Your battery will appreciate the effort.

Larry