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Topic: SOLVED!-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running (Read 461 times) previous topic - next topic
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SOLVED!-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running
2017-04-23
SOLUTION:
"If your jack is powered by the coach batteries, which it would seem to be, then your problem is explained by a disconnect between the coach batteries and the battery isolator.

-->There is a 100A fuse in my battery compartment ('04), and likely yours as well, which I believe protects the cable from batteries to isolator. <--
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 Our 2003RB has a Black Breaker, on the Black rear panel of the coatch battery compartment. This had been tripped, a Black arm that said "RESET" (also in black) had swung out from the left side of the breaker. Press it back in and every thing now works!
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If you can measure from ground to either side of that fuse with engine off, I think you'll find one side is at 0 v, and the other at battery voltage. If so, the fuse is blown." Steve

We have a 2003 RB Lazy Daze. There are two 12v sockets in the dash
Top: Chassis (cigar lighter) - Works, always active.
Bottom: Labeled "Coach" -
Now: only works if engine is running, does not work if key is in acc. or if key is out of ignition
Before: was active when engine running, key in acc., and if engine is off (key out of ignition).

All other 12v lights and sockets in the rig work. Rig is currently connected to shore power. Coach batteries are full. Have 2 banks of solar and panels show they are being charged and up to 100%.

Is there a fuse I am missing or is there a relay that may be bad?

Help - Do not know where to start.

Thanks
J&J

J & J
Rear Bath
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #1 –
The Lazy Daze Companion: Dashboard 12V Power Outlets

Try this link to the LD Companion...    :P
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #2 –
There is a circuit breaker or fuse between the coach batteries and the battery isolator terminal in the engine compartment. If it is bad, not only will none of the circuits in the dash connected to the coach batteries get power from the batteries, but the batteries will not be charged when the engine is running. I don't know its location in a RB - perhaps someone else can fill that in...

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #4 –
Quote from: John and Judy  - 
Help - Do not know where to start.

If a fuse was bad on either one of these sockets, then the 12V socket shouldn't work either with the engine on or off.  A bad fuse breaks the circuit.  I haven't found a breaker for the dash 12V sockets ... I suppose there could be one?

I was in our LD this morning and I meant to check your observation that both 12V sockets work with the engine off or the ignition off.  But I forgot to check.  While I don't have a rock solid memory and can get different experiences a bit confused, I didn't think both our 12V sockets on the dash are hot when the engine and ignition are off.  I'll check tomorrow for sure and post my findings. 

If I'm off-base, I sure hope one of our LD Electricians steps into this conversation.
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #5 –
Quote from: Steve  - 
There is a circuit breaker or fuse between the coach batteries and the battery isolator terminal in the engine compartment.

In our '04, I did not find this fuse/breaker in the engine compartment, but on the rear wall of the coach battery compartment is a 100A Buss fuse, and I suspect this is the one I mean. With engine off, check voltage to ground on either side. If not the same, this fuse is bad, and certainly your problem.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #6 –
Quote from: Traxless  - 
If a fuse was bad on either one of these sockets, then the 12V socket shouldn't work either with the engine on or off.  A bad fuse breaks the circuit.  I haven't found a breaker for the dash 12V sockets ... I suppose there could be one?

I was in our LD this morning and I meant to check your observation that both 12V sockets work with the engine off or the ignition off.  But I forgot to check.  While I don't have a rock solid memory and can get different experiences a bit confused, I didn't think both our 12V sockets on the dash are hot when the engine and ignition are off.  I'll check tomorrow for sure and post my findings. 

If I'm off-base, I sure hope one of our LD Electricians steps into this conversation.


I checked our 06 and both of ours and they both are hot when the ignition is off.

Jim
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #7 –
Likewise + on our '15 RB. The dash radio and both 12 volt outlets are live without the ignition on (keys in pocket).

The coach batteries deliver power to these devices/outlets. The reasoning behind that, according to the owner's manual, is to prevent the draining of the truck battery. Pretty much why the generator won't use fuel past 1/4 tank. The factory sets these safeguards to protect us from ourselves.

I'm not certain how long it has been this way or if in fact it has always been such. If the latter is the case then to operate contrary would appear to be the fault of someone other than the Mothership.

I'm not an electrician, but I wonder if there was a miss-wire in the coach battery compartment when the batteries were serviced/removed. Or perhaps likewise under the hood.

The truck alternator does charge the coach batteries so perhaps somehow some wires got mixed up under the hood or in the battery bay. Otherwise the radio and dash outlets should have no connection to the ignition...😟

Just a thought... Hasn't this come up on LDO before? Seems oddly familiar.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #8 –
According to discussions in the past I was under the impression that the 12v dash outlets are powered from the truck battery not the coach. If that isn't correct that would be great. Anyone know which is correct or when it was changed?

Jim
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #9 –
Quote from: Jim & Gayle  - 
According to discussions in the past I was under the impression that the 12v dash outlets are powered from the truck battery not the coach. If that isn't correct that would be great. Anyone know which is correct or when it was changed?

I'd like to know as well.  I found the following LDO topics as my starting point.

12-volt sockets in cab

using an xm radio

12 volt recepticals

Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.

So it looks like both 12V plugs on the dash are wired to the truck battery on or after 2002-2003.  I'll try to find time to read what our '09 LD manual says about the subject.
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #10 –
My 2003 FD both 12v outlets on the dash are to the house battery.
2003 23.5' Front Dinette
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #11 –
According to the 2014 LD Manuel 37th edition - 
Electrical System Page 38
"The Ford cab has three auxiliary 12V outlets.  Two are located on the lower center area of the dash.  The other is located inside the glove box.   These outlets are a standard feature of the chassis and therefore receive their power from the chassis battery.  They are fused inside the Ford chassis fuse panel." 

 Chassis Charging System  Page 39
"When the ignition key is turned to the off position the house batteries are automatically separated fro the chassis battery."
.........  This eliminates the possibility of running down the chassis battery while camping."




personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #12 –
Quote from: colddog  - 
According to the 2014 LD Manuel 37th edition - 
Electrical System Page 38
"The Ford cab has three auxiliary 12V outlets.  Two are located on the lower center area of the dash.  The other is located inside the glove box.   These outlets are a standard feature of the chassis and therefore receive their power from the chassis battery.  They are fused inside the Ford chassis fuse panel." 

 Chassis Charging System  Page 39
"When the ignition key is turned to the off position the house batteries are automatically separated fro the chassis battery."
.........  This eliminates the possibility of running down the chassis battery while camping."

Excellent post and thank you this helpful information.
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #13 –
After rereading the above mentioned pages in the LD manual, I stand corrected.

This is good to know as my travel companions often use the dash outlets to charge ancillary items or neglect to disconnect while asleep or away.

Now I have some more ammo in my arsenal to back up my insistence for disconnecting devices from these two 12 volt outlets.

Thanks for the clarifying information.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #14 –
One part of equation solved ... but the OP questions seems to remain unanswered and it stumps me as well.  One is working and one is AWOL.  
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #15 –
Quote from: John and Judy  - 

Now: only works if engine is running, does not work if key is in acc. or if key is out of ignition
Before: was active when engine running, key in acc., and if engine is off (key out of ignition).


I'm thinking maybe the key or key lock maybe worn out a bit.   Maybe a test  with key just turn to on before starting.




personal fine art photo stuff
TF Mack | Flickr
It's all good .......
2014 Twin King
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #16 –
Quote from: Traxless  - 
One part of equation solved ... but the OP questions seems to remain unanswered and it stumps me as well.  One is working and one is AWOL.  


A lot of sidetrack here, but if you read my two previous posts, I did directly address the issue...
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #17 –
Not to draw this out much further, this is what (paraphrased) my RB manual says for our '15.

...Cab 12 volt is fused inside the Ford Chassis Fuse Panel...

...There is a Heavy Duty Weather Proof DC Power Contactor under the hood adjacent to the coolant resivoir. It is a Black Cylindrical Body. It can be seen in diagram #5 in the back of the owner's manual...

I am including a shot from the diagram #5 mentioned. As well as two other partial pics of related information.

MODERATORS: if these images go against LDO policy, my apologies (it's easier than drawing them by hand). PLEASE. Feel free to delete them.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #18 –
Interesting, in Kent's posted diagrams, it appears that the radio and CB are wired at or near the isolator and there is a circuit breaker between there and the batteries.  If the circuit breaker is open, it would behave as the OP reported (at least the radio and possibly the 12V outlet if wired similar to the radio).  I wonder if the OP knows if his house batteries are charging when the engine is running?  Easy to check by pulling the solar controller fuse and comparing the voltage at the engine battery and the house batteries while the engine is running.

Art
Art and Barbara
Settled in Atterdag Village of Solvang
2015-2022 fulltime in a 2016 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
2002-2015 2002 LD MB
Art's blog
 
Re: Help-Dash 12v coach plug and Radio do not work when engine is NOT running.
Reply #19 –
Quote from: Kent Heckethorn  - 
Not to draw this out much further, this is what (paraphrased) my RB manual says for our '15.

...Cab 12 volt is fused inside the Ford Chassis Fuse Panel...

...There is a Heavy Duty Weather Proof DC Power Contactor under the hood adjacent to the coolant resivoir. It is a Black Cylindrical Body. It can be seen in diagram #5 in the back of the owner's manual...

I am including a shot from the diagram #5 mentioned. As well as two other partial pics of related information.

MODERATORS: if these images go against LDO policy, my apologies (it's easier than drawing them by hand). PLEASE. Feel free to delete them.

Kent
It's never a problem to post anything that helps someone with a problem - unless it's marital.😉
Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB