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stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Hi, all.  I just discovered that my 96 RB I just bought has some rot left side bottom of the bathroom window, where the curtain strings are usually screwed in.  I believe it's where the window leaked before the last owner resealed all the windows.   Everything on the outside in that area feels very solid, no puckering or softness, etc.  I can't feel anything in the wall underneath the sink, but I know that doesn't mean much.  The unit was parked outside the last 3 or 4 years, so it could have been rotting away for quite some time.  I can't take her in for an estimate and extensive repairs until next spring.  I could have sworn I saw posts on something you could inject into the area to stop the rot and mold from spreading so badly, etc, but I can't seem to find the thread(s) now.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about or have suggestions of what I could do to keep the damage from spreading for the next few months? 
Thanks so much.  Guess I hired the wrong inspection company. :(  I was trying to be so very careful, I'm just sick about it.  The plan was to pay off the RV and other debts and go full time in a few years.  :/
Shawna
The hills, they are a callin'
'96 RB w '06 CR-V :D

To invent your own life's meaning isn't easy, but it' still allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble. 
- Bill Watterson
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #1 –
Quote from: CalNatureGal  - 

"...I'm just sick about it.  The plan was to pay off the RV and other debts and go full time in a few years..."


Don't be too hard on yourself. You've done well to find a nice RB.

While I can't do much to help at this point, I'm certain someone can give you the assistance you need. It may not be as bad as you think.

Good luck.

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #2 –
Ouch! Much sympathy. 

I am not  familiarwith that particular area, but I'm sure others have had to deal with it, maybe they will give more targeted advice.

First, how do you know there is rot?  If it is rotted wood in the wall, you have to get the area opened and drying out. If it were me, I would pull the inside window frame to be able to look at it and assess how far it goes. Tell us more about how you diagnosed the problem ? Is it localized to the area of the screws?

Rot is a fungus that can be killed, but it is hard to get at it all.  A borate solution is what some boaters (like the USNavy) use. A product called Git Rot is also used in marine applications, and I have used it, but don't have a lot of faith in it. It is an epoxy resin that is injected into holes you drill into the rotted area. The best and only real solution I know is to remove all the rotted wood and rebuild it.

Photos would help. 

Good luck.

Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #3 –
I had a bad floor board in the entry step foot box a few years back due to a leak around the door frame. I used the spray in, expandable foam to seal the leak and Git Rot in the floor board. It seems to turn that piece of wood into a petrified board in some manner.

I am very satisfied that this process worked well for me.

YMMV

Good luck!
Ruby, the red 2004 26' RK hauling Dave and Kristine hither and yon
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #4 –
Thank you, Kent, Paul and Dave, for your support and input.  I will see what I can find on a borate solution and Git Rot.  Ideally, I'd like to kill/stop the growth of the fungus completely, but will plan on opening things up next spring when the rainy season ends and replacing anything even remotely discolored, etc.  Hopefully, by then I'll have some help with things I can't do myself.  Unfortunately, I have very few tools and knowledge, so I'm way too scared to try to open things up as we head into our rainy season, Paul.   While I'm really good at being someone's apprentice/helper and can do simple things I'm familiar with on my own, I'm not very good at being point on repairs of things I don't know well.  :/ I believe the leak was sealed successfully by the prev owner, as I didn't find any new moisture in the area after several big downpours lately.  As to identifying, etc., there is super fine "sawdust" coming out of the old hole where the string for the curtain was originally anchored at the bottom of the back window.  I haven't detected any moisture currently, seems totally dry now.  I can feel that the wood supporting the window frame in that area is soft about two inches up.  I can only feel about 2 inches down before I encounter the top of the cabinet holding the bathroom sink, but when I feel the wall inside the cabinet at the top - where the wooden support would continue down - it still feels firm.  Without touching it and pushing on it, you would never realize there was a problem, it all looks totally fine except for the relocation of the screw.  I can see how both the inspector and I missed it, it's such a small area and so discrete.  I don't think the leak could have happened very long ago, maybe last winter, or the damage would have spread further, but I have no idea how fast/slow mold/rot moves inside walls in a fairly dry area, so...Doesn't look like other termite sites I've seen and that seems to be the only place I can find anything like that, so I surmised it was wood rot from the leak in the window with prev owner.  There is no damage showing on the outside skin.  I think I'll try both, borate solution first then Git Rot, just to be as safe as possible until I can do it correctly. 
Thanks so much, guys, I really appreciate the advice and support.
Shawna
The hills, they are a callin'
'96 RB w '06 CR-V :D

To invent your own life's meaning isn't easy, but it' still allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble. 
- Bill Watterson
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #5 –
Sounds like a good plan. Good luck,  let us know how it goes !
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #6 –
Shawna

It's difficult to find all the problems an RV can have in the short time an inspector has.

Before you do much more, try to determine the extent of the damage.
My favorite exploration tool is an ice pick. You do not need to push hard to penetrate a rotted area, so try not damage areas without rot. 
Even firm feeling areas can have extensive rot, depending how the rot travels through the wood framing.
If the ice picks pokes through the wall, check the tip for moisture.
If dry, I would leave it alone, the leak probably has been sealed. Deal with the damage when you can.
When it is dry, the rotting process slows to a crawl or stops. If you wish, a fungicide can be injected into the obvious rotted area.

While Git Rot is a useful material, it is hard to use, easy to waste and is expensive.
To correctly repair a damaged section, the wall paneling must be removed and the damage visually seen.
Squirting thin epoxy, into a hole, is not a good way to repair this.
Without opening it up,  there is no other practical way to see how far the rot has gone or to determine the best way of repairing it.

Since this is a new RV to you, do keep an eye on it this winter and make sure the leaks are well sealed.
I would want to go inside the rig and check everywhere during and just after any hard rain, you don't know for sure what its condition really is yet.
Making sure the roof and windows are sealed should be your prime concern before moving on to other projects.

Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #7 –

Shawna,

Very sorry to read about your problem!  Luckily, we all have the 'wisdom of the crowd' to rely on here for advice, experience, and support for the unwelcome discoveries in our rigs. 

I can't add anything helpful to what's already been suggested by others here, but to Larry's point about determining the extent of the damage, I wonder if using an inexpensive borescope to get a look at a problem without taking everything apart is practical?  It seems to me with a couple of small holes in the right places it may be a way to get an idea of the type and extent of the problem, and if nothing else, put your mind at ease with regard to the urgency of any repairs that may be needed.  Hopefully others with more experience working 'behind the walls' will chime in to explain why this may, or may not be workable.  I've attached a link to an inexpensive one that can be used with a smartphone as an example (not a recommendation). 

Just a thought...Good luck!

Fantronics 3.5M Rigid Cable Android Endoscope Borescope, Waterproof OTG...

As an Amazon Associate Lazy Daze Owners' Group earns from qualifying purchases.
Bill
2003 -- 23' FL
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #8 –
We have a relatively new roof on our home.  After a few years, I discovered a leak in the attic, but couldn't find the source.  Several roofing companies tried to help find the leak, but without success and their recommendations were expensive.  Finally found an experienced old timer who found the source of the problem and repaired our roof at a fair price.

A good friend has a Winnebago Adventurer and the front window seal leaked.  The leak did extensive damage, which took him weeks to repair.

Not long ago, I visited a LD owner (RB) who bought a much loved older LD only to discover a leak in the left rear corner.  After a bit, he was able to restore the damage to "good as new."  The owner was very handy and believed he had thoroughly inspected the LD before buying it.  He said he just missed it.  Sometimes, water can be the bane of our existence.  

Now that you've discovered the issue, keeping everything dry is step #1.   I'd suggest finding some help to complete the water damage assessment and then search for help in the repair if it is necessary.  Fortunately, it doesn't sound like you have an imminent emergency.


Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #9 –
" wonder if using an inexpensive borescope to get a look at a problem without taking everything apart is practical?  It seems to me with a couple of small holes in the right places it may be a way to get an idea of the type and extent of the problem, and if nothing else, put your mind at ease with regard to the urgency of any repairs that may be needed.  Hopefully others with more experience working 'behind the walls' will chime in to explain why this may, or may not be workable.  "

I have tried using small inspection camera.. The walls are full of insulation, fiberglass in the older models, styrofoam in the newer models.
Each type of insulation physically and visually blocks the scope. It was of no use.
In Shawna's situation, the rot is in a wall, next to a window. Even is there was no insulation in the wall, the area is mostly wood framing, with little or no empty space..
You can use ice picks, moisture sensors, whatever in an attempt to 'see' the damage but the only true way is to open it up.
Sorry but that is the way it is.
Been there and done that too many times over the last twenty years.

Suggest seeing if the Mothership still has the proper color of wall paneling available that will match the damaged area,
Many times repairs can be made to almost invisible.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #10 –
My first (SOB and used about 9 YO) RV had a little 1/4" hole by its back window, I found it soon after I bought it. After sticking my finger into it I decided it was much worse than I had hoped. I ripped out all the paneling. Found that the back window had been installed upside down at the factory. The drain holes were at the top, and no drain holes at the bottom. Repaired all, replaced with smooth plywood inside, and covered with a non-descript vinyl wall paper, with a 'whiter' background instead of the dark paneling. I tried to complement the kitchen backsplash wallpaper that was just a few feet away. I sold it to a friend at work when I got my LD. He is still a friend and still has it, now on the road after 36 years. It's good to see how well my repairs and modifications have held up. ( a few "well, I should have done that better! moments). RonB
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #11 –
Hi, all.  Ron, I'm so glad your story had a happy (and long lived) ending. :)  And thanks, Ed, I don't feel quite so stupid now. :/  I'd done so much research, had a check list and everything, so I was feeling pretty low about not detecting it.  Bill, the scope sounded like a great idea, but thanks Larry for the wall interior info, I was really wondering about that.  I did the ice pick, but didn't poke any new holes.  It does feel like a bit more of the framework under that side of the window is damaged, but without knowing exactly where the framework is located and what is just wall/insulation sandwich, it's hard to tell how much actual rot has occurred.  There is a bit of softness and ever so slight puckering (if you know to look VERY closely there), so at the least the wall and insulation needs replacing at least 6 inches toward the right from the lower left corner, as well as the framework coming down on the corner.  This may be a stupid question, but I'm SO green...would you open it through the interior walls rather than the outside shell then?  Since I haven't gotten to spend much time in it and my construction helper days are quite a bit behind me, I feel so intimidated about opening ANYthing at this point.  :/  But I stuck a q-tip in the screw hole during the last storm and it came back dry, so I'm pretty sure the last owner did seal everything, thank goodness.  The only window leak I found was in the front cab, top passenger side (go figure).  It looks as if the windshield was never properly sealed when installed, though, cuz it only leaked when I sprayed the front windshield off to clean it (apparently the pump on the windshield washer needs replacing, too).  The water hose spray went all the way up where rain usually won't go because of the over-cab bed, so it would have been hard to ever know that was there.  The only thing that got wet was the ceiling carpet around that top edge and the floor carpet in the cab and we had some nice weather for a few days so I was able to let it dry out really well.  So at least I'm not panicking that further damage is happening, thank goodness!!    I found a borate solution product that is made to inject into walls for when you can't open them up to repair, it's suspended in a gel solution.  I plan on making an ice pick hole in the top of the wall next to that support beam and pour from there as well as several places down the side and then several through the area just under the window at that end, but I'm not sure how well it will cover, as it's rather runny, according to reviews.  But at least I'll feel like I'm trying to kill it.  I'm not sure the Git Rot will help at all, as there is no longer any wood to harden right against the wall where the original screw hole is, nor is there anything to harden in the area under that corner (I feel, based on home construction, that there is only a support frame holding the window and then just inner wall/insulation in that area). The framework actually holding the window mostly feels solid, except maybe the very corner where two pieces of wood frame come together where it looks like the leak was actually located.  I'll give the solution a week to dry out  and then see if the Git Rot will help or just be a waste. 
I'm sure once I get back on the do-it-yourself horse, my confidence will grow and I'll feel way less scared to do stuff to the old girl, but the unknown is a real stresser when it comes to the important stuff. :/  I was able to find info on cleaning up the battery compartment from a past boiled over battery that hadn't been properly cleaned up before installing new ones, (ah, the things they don't tell you :/) in the archives and felt so much braver after doing that and installing a battery minder kit thanks to you guys.  I felt much safer using your advise rather than just googling it.  Thanks so much, everybody, I'd be WAY more scared to do ANY of it without all your advice and support!  :)  I'll update once I've used the Nissus Jecta in the wall, but I don't think I'll be able to tell much since there is no visual check available.  Thanks, Larry, for letting me know that it grows much slower when it's dry.  At least I won't end up with an ulcer worrying this winter. :)
Shawna
The hills, they are a callin'
'96 RB w '06 CR-V :D

To invent your own life's meaning isn't easy, but it' still allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble. 
- Bill Watterson
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #12 –
Shawna

"It looks as if the windshield was never properly sealed when installed..."



I carry 100% glass coverage on my insurance! If you also (or even if you don't) have this it's well worth the premium. A good glass shop could easily pop out the existing windshield and reseat it with new sealant. Might be worth the effort!  ;)
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #13 –
Ford van cabs have suffered from seam leaks, under the cowl.
There are factory service bulletins on sealing these seams.
It's worth looking into, in the mean time, someone needs to find the leak, where ever it is coming in, and seal it before anymore water enters, winter is coming.
A cab leak should be fixed ASAP, with more rain, the leak will rot the carpet and will eventually get to wood.

If you can't get to it now, park it indoors or cover it with a big tarp, for the winter, Dry it out as much as possible before storing. Make sure the vents are open, under the tarp. Vent covers make this practical.

When you do get around to fixing the rot, open up the inside walls, it is much easier to remove and repair the paneling than the aluminum skin.

Larry
Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #14 –
Thanks, Steve, I'm not sure if my policies includes that, I'll check it out.  (I actually have the entire rig covered by AAA & Progressive, as well as renter's insurance for all the stuff inside.)  And thanks, Larry, I was being rather casual about the front windshield because I was thinking the cab was protecting the unsealed spot.  But I'll take that much more seriously and see about sealing that up quickly.  It's drizzly today, so it's a good day to check that out.  Do you guys know of any videos on wall repairs that I might be able to watch?  I'll definitely plan on going in from the inside and any other advice or instructions you're willing to give will be gratefully received.   Thanks much, all.   Happy Sunday to ya!  :)
Shawna
The hills, they are a callin'
'96 RB w '06 CR-V :D

To invent your own life's meaning isn't easy, but it' still allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble. 
- Bill Watterson
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #15 –
Quote from: CalNatureGal  - 

"...Do you guys know of any videos on wall repairs that I might be able to watch..."


This question opens a huge can of worms. I would imagine that many of us were tempted to link YouTube videos about RV wall/rot repair, but hesitated due to some of the severity related to many of the repairs.

No one wants to make any more of the problem you face by adding undue anxiety. Yours may be a very minor and straight forward repair.

I think what may be of more use in the meantime would be structural photos of your rear baths framing.

If you are set on videos, check out YouTube, but prepare yourself. Some approach horror story status, whereas, yours may been more of a drama.

Good luck with that...

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #17 –
Can't help with video, but when I cut into the interior walls of mine I was careful to make the cuts straight so I could lay a new piece of Liam paneling into the hole I made. I also was very careful to cut only 1/8" deep, wanting to be sure not to compromise any of the framework that may be salvageable.

I used one of these:
RYOBI Tools
They are quick and make thin, controllable cuts.

Start as small as possible and once inside, use a dental mirror and flashlight to explore. Once I was satisfied I didn't need to remove anymore paneling, I expanded my hole to where I had half of a frame member exposed on all sides. This makes adding a piece of paneling back on very easy- there is something to attach it to on all sides. That's just how I did mine. Yours may be different.

Take photos and post them. And a friendly request, please stick some paragraphs into your posts, my old eyes find a break in the text a relief that keeps me more engaged in my reading. :)
Paul
'92 Mid Bath
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #18 –
"please stick some paragraphs into your posts, my old eyes find a break in the text a relief that keeps me more engaged in my reading."

Amen! It really helps readability when text is broken up into paragraphs, instead of one long run-on block.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #19 –
Hi, all.  Sorry for the delay, I got lucky and found a good mechanic that will keep her at his garage and work on her as my money comes in this winter, so after making sure nothing was currently leaking, I took her in.  His generous patience will allow me to have a through inspection of the chassis/motor and prioritize ALL the things to be done and do it right, not just fix what's broken as it breaks on me.  Not to mention it's saving me a precious bundle on storage that can now go toward the work!  Yay!!  :D

Paul and Andy, need for paragraphs noted. lol  I get a bit caught up. :D 

Joan, Kent and Paul, thanks so much, I'll check out Ryobi and the pics in archives, etc., before going to youtube, don't need another ulcer if I can avoid it. :/  Paul, good instructions, easy for me to follow, thanks. :)  I'm not as scared as I was.  I do feel it's not as bad as it first appeared, Kent, since exploring a bit more as I put the gel stuff into the wall.   My son (an electrician) and I think the rot is only in the insulation just below the wood framing under that corner of the window, my fingers are crossed.  I'm not dreading opening that up come spring nearly as much as I was, but we'll see.  I'll be keeping a close eye on her over the winter, the mechanic's just a mile down the road. 

I am really starting to feel the enjoyment of having her, now that some of the immediate pressure of repairs have been lightened somewhat.  Knowing I'll have breathing room to make ALL things - house and hood both - good and sound and no further damage happening is HUGE for me.  :D  I'm sooo looking forward to March and my first trip in her to Morrow Bay. :)

Thanks again, all.  I will take and post lots of pics and let you know how well (or not) the gel stuff worked when I do the repairs in a few.    Happy holidays to you all :D
Shawna
The hills, they are a callin'
'96 RB w '06 CR-V :D

To invent your own life's meaning isn't easy, but it' still allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble. 
- Bill Watterson
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #20 –
Joan, thanks a mill for the links, all KINDS of future projects covered in there! :D
Shawna
The hills, they are a callin'
'96 RB w '06 CR-V :D

To invent your own life's meaning isn't easy, but it' still allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble. 
- Bill Watterson
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #21 –
Quote from: CalNatureGal  - 

"...I'm not as scared as I was...

...I am really starting to feel the enjoyment of having her, now that some of the immediate pressure of repairs have been lightened somewhat..."


Shawna,

Progress seems at hand. Good to hear. Slow and steady wins the race (oh my another adage).

It's all Silver Linings and Rainbows from here on (well, maybe). How's it go? "Keep your eye on the prize (now stop that)". 😉

Plenty of support here, that's for sure. Best of luck. Next step? Getting all the goodies together that will make your LD a true Home Sweet Home (ok, I'll stop). 😁

Kent
2015 27' RB "MissB.Haven"
 
Re: stopping rot/mold in the wall from spreading
Reply #22 –
Great news on that update, Shawna.  It is indeed a blessing to have your baby bundled up under a nearby roof for the winter, with someone you trust working on her, and the time to educate yourself at a more leisurely pace.

Since you're on that side of the Rockies, perhaps Ladeze will be an opportunity for you, in addition to Morro Bay...

Good luck with your new adventure.   ;D

Lynne
Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm