Automatic Leveling System March 15, 2017, 10:13:51 am My wife, Tina Marie and I are excited to be picking up our new 27' MB sometime in June (waiting for Todd's call). This will be our first RV and we are thrilled that it is going to be an LD. I've been constantly online and reading as much as I can get my hands on about RVing and am wondering if we should get a leveling system installed or if blocks will be sufficient? We live in Florida, but will be spending five to six months a year on the road, often in State or County parks. Any information or opinions will be most welcome. Thanks. 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #1 – March 15, 2017, 05:26:27 pm Very rarely do I have any issues getting level with a couple blocks. But levelers should would be nice when it's pouring rain out. I thought about putting them on our LD. But the wife saw the $$$$$ and said no way lol. It would also be nice to have the storage space available that the blocks take up. 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #2 – March 15, 2017, 06:20:02 pm "But the wife saw the $$$$$ and said no way"It would have been at that point where I would have struck a deal with dear Wife! This is how it would go down, "OK, we'll save the money now but, the first time we need to level the rig in a pouring rain storm or a flooded campsite, you, dear wife, must do the outside work"!!! 7 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #3 – March 15, 2017, 09:41:43 pm I have leveled with blocks for years. It is easy, costs nothing, and weighs next to nothing. When I break a block, it becomes firewood.The convenience of levelers is tempting, but the cost to install them and the likelyhood of having one more expensive and complicated thing to fix prevents me from going down that path.Other owners likely have different opinions than mine!Harold 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #4 – March 15, 2017, 09:52:24 pm "... the likelyhood of having one more expensive and complicated thing to fix..."My Kwickee's have been relatively reliable for thirteen years now. I can think of only two occasions when they did not work as they should. Disconnecting the control panel and then reconnecting provides a 'reset' and they go back to normal again. I've got a wiring harness that is supposed to be a last resort but have never had need of it. 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #5 – March 15, 2017, 10:12:16 pm I had Big Foot levelers on our first LD but not on the other two. I see no need for levelers on either the 24' or 27' models. Probably 75% of the time I can simply scoot around to the point where no leveling is required. Close enough works for us and the fridge. The other times my homemade wood blocks do the trick. Can't speak to the 31' because I've never had one.Ed 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #6 – March 15, 2017, 11:38:32 pm I watched a guy in a SOB at Morro Bay GTG for over 30 minutes try to level with blocks. 😳Sure love the Kwickee levelers we have on our LD.🚐 3 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #7 – March 15, 2017, 11:48:31 pm I avoided reading the other posts so I would not be influenced by the replies. I would hold off buying the automatic levers. I have camped some in east Florida and never needed them. I travel up and down the east coast and almost always can find level. That said I have four sets of ten plastic levers that look like overgrown legos. That is because I camp up to 3 times a year in the foot hills of VA where levelers would not help all that much.So I suggest get a set or two of the blocks and see how that works for you. If you use them a bunch you may want to consider buying levelers. The blocks will still come in handy for those (rare) times the levelers need additional help, or you find yourself in mud, sand or soft soil so the small amount of money is not badly spent.And oh yes, congrats on the new toy!John07 MBLong Point Park, FL 2 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #8 – March 16, 2017, 12:48:00 am My advice - try it for a while without them and see how you like it.We bought used and the coach came with HWH kick down jacks. I love them, except when I don't. They're great when they work and I use them frequently. Our travel style is to move frequently and we travel without a toad. I sometimes use them 2-3 times a day. Heck, I sometimes use them when I wash the roof or dump the tanks in order to make water run off in my preferred direction. I also use them when I cover and store the RV between trips. It takes some weight off of the tires and suspension and (again) makes the water run off the roof. They are another thing to maintain. I'm now well practiced at sending jacks back to HWH for rebuilding. I've replaced springs and cables. Right now I the control board has an intermittent button from being used too much. On a new coach, if I'm planning to keep it for years to come, I would probably have them installed at a place like Stuarts Leveling in Elkhart. On an older coach or one I'm not planning to keep for years, I would probably skip it due to the cost. The good thing is that you can try blocks for a while and then decide. Rich'03 MB in NC 4 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #9 – March 16, 2017, 08:55:55 am Hi David and congrats on the new rig. We decided to wait and see if we would need/use levelers, and just bought blocks at the local Walmart. These blocks have worked well for us over the past 5 years and we are no longer considering a leveling system unless a medical condition forces the issue. Yes, I have gotten wet leveling with the blocks once or twice, but I feel it is just part of the "experience". I suggest you try it with only blocks for awhile, and if you change your mind, you can always have levers installed. Remember that levelers will subtract from the amount of weight, i.e., decrease your OCCC that the chassis can carry. Since we are snow birds, hope to meet you in Florida or at a NELD/SELD event. Safe travels. 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #10 – March 16, 2017, 09:29:23 am More Whiz Bang, More to break!As a newbie in a simple old Class'B" I watched a Family with a new 2014 30' Class"A" spend a hour trying to barrow leveling blocks when the Levelers spewed hydraulic oil for the second time in 6 months. They flipped the rig 180 and put a front tire in the gutter to level it. Go figure.If needed, I start with two stacked 2x8 (Mothership issued) under two wheels usually adequately levels my 1988 MB. I keep them in the left front storage compartment and a second storage key on my #2 key ring. I back in and set it all with the engine still running. 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #11 – March 16, 2017, 11:23:52 am I like having the Kwikee levelers on our LD. No problems with them in almost 14 years now. No longer made though.It isn't just about leveling, it's also about stabilization. We put the levelers down even on a level site, just to stabilize the motorhome and keep it from rocking around when we move about in it.We also use the levelers frequently when parking away from camp. It's not uncommon for street parking to be seriously sloped toward the curb. In just a few seconds we can have the LD level. Same at roadside turnouts, say for lunch. We do this both for comfort and to keep the refer level while parked.I'd say this is about like a garage door opener. Sure, you can get out and open the door every time you come and go from the house, but once you have an opener it's hard to go back.My three favorite options on our LD are the levelers, the back-up camera and the electric step because of how, working together, they make parking so much easier than it would be otherwise.There are times though, when the levelers are a bit of a pain. The Kwikees "fold" and "unfold" as they're raised and lowered. Sometimes, on uneven terrain, there is not enough ground clearance for them to properly unfold and we either have to move around a bit, say to get the relevant wheel out of a depression, or we have to use a block or two under the wheel to gain the clearance we need. Yes, we still carry some blocks but not as many as we would otherwise.There are also times when the levelers do not have enough reach to get the LD completely level. Sometimes we just live with that, other times we place some blocks under the levelers to add height.These problems occur in less than 10% of campsites and my guess is that many of those sites would present even more difficulty if just using blocks.Yes, levelers are expensive, but only a small percentage of the cost of a new motorhome. And as with most of this stuff it depends a lot on how you plan to use your LD. If your style is to go somewhere and park for a week, then blocks might work well for you. If you're constantly on the move, every night or two, as you travel to many different campsites over an extended trip I think levelers start to make sense.Terry2003 26.5'RBGardnerville, NV 3 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #12 – March 16, 2017, 11:55:26 am Terry's post brings up an important point. We are all different and our individual backgrounds and needs define what we value in our rigs. Our opinions are equally valuable. Terry's favorite options are the backup camera, electric step, and levelers. I am underwhelmed by the value of my backup camera (I thought I really needed it), dislike my electric step, and don't need levelers. Yet both of our opinions are equally correct and valuable.Some like toads, others don't need them. Short rig or long. Coffee or tea. MB or RB. Pick and choose from other's experience and find what works best for you!Harold 6 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #13 – March 16, 2017, 12:06:02 pm "Pick and choose from other's experience and find what works best for you!"----Yep; YMMV, for sure!
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #14 – March 16, 2017, 05:25:20 pm Rich said to try it for a while to see if you need or want to add them. I think that is good advice. For me, I have had mine since January, 2009, and I have often been able to use a spot to stay that otherwise would have been unworkable. A few cases - > I visited my cousin in Missouri, and the only place to park was in her very unlevel driveway. With wood cribbing under my Bigfoot levelers, I had the right front tire more than a foot in the air. Without the hydraulics, I would not have been able to stay there.>I stayed at Tuttle Creek below Mt Whitney. There were no open sites that approached being level. With my hydraulics, I managed to get level, but both front tires were way up in the air. See the photo below. My front tires are well up in the air.There are other benefits to having the hydraulics. It makes it easy to change a flat, or to put on or remove chains. If you have to work under the rig, just raise it up, put in some safety blocking, and under you go. If it is raining when you pull into a site, you don't need to run around outside with blocks to try to get level - just push a button.I would not be without them.Ken F in NM 3 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #15 – March 16, 2017, 06:37:05 pm I agree with all the comments above. But one thing to keep in mind not all LD's are equal. What I mean by that is LD over the years has put in different parts and made different lengths. What is really good for one year of manufacture has absolutely no bearing on the other years. So my advice is the wait and see. There are two reasons as I see it to level the rig. One is for comfort and the other is for the operation of the refrigerator. Comfort is a very personal things so I keep my opinion to myself (almost a first). The newer propane refrigerators are a lot more forgiving of levelness. My father in laws 1970 LD had no forgiveness - he would spent the first 30 or so minutes leveling. My 2014 TK manual says that if you are 'comfortable' then its within 'levelness'. We tend to have no issue being a half to a full bubble off the level. Others may feel they are standing on their heads. 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #16 – March 16, 2017, 07:14:42 pm Quote from: colddog - March 16, 2017, 06:37:05 pm We tend to have no issue being a half to a full bubble off the level. I agree, being my wife frequently says I'm a half bubble off. Wonder what she means by that??? 1 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #17 – March 16, 2017, 07:23:23 pm One of the first upgrades we did, after picking up our new 2014 MB in 2014, was to install the Quadra Bigfoot automatic leveling system. We had used the Lynx blocks, but find it such a luxury to be able to push a button and have the coach level especially after a long drive and feeling tired by the time we get to the camp site. We can level at very uneven sites. We have eight 18" long 4"x6" wood blocks (two under each footpad) for added stability and height. We drove a long distance to have our leveler installed by Major Wingfield in Yuma. We understand how important the proper installation is and called the Quendra factory for referral. We've been very happy with the leveler and consider it a necessary luxury that we wouldn't want to do without.Florence 2 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #18 – March 16, 2017, 07:28:55 pm Quote from: Kenneth Fears - March 16, 2017, 05:25:20 pm>I stayed at Tuttle Creek below Mt Whitney. There were no open sites that approached being level. With my hydraulics, I managed to get level, but both front tires were way up in the air. See the photo below. My front tires are well up in the air.Awesome pic, Ken! It reminds me of a camping trip we made to Great Basin NP last year. We were camping in a 24' trailer at a site that was a bear to get leveled with my wood blocks. The day after we arrived, a big class A backed into the very unlevel site across from us and we watched in amazement as an elder gentleman leveled the thing, ending up with both front tires swinging in the breeze much like yours!
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #19 – March 16, 2017, 08:07:03 pm Thanks to everyone for your good advice. We're so glad to be able to tap the experience you have to share with us.RegardsDavid and Tina Marie
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #20 – March 31, 2017, 12:41:28 pm Blimey, I simply can not come up with a reason to park at Tuttle Creek, when here are so many level places in the "Hills". Where we will be in a few weeks.
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #21 – March 31, 2017, 07:12:14 pm IMHO, the auto hydraulic levelers go quite a bit beyond just the comfort of a level rig. I agree the speed of the operation after a long drive is a big benefit, but the best factor for me is how stable living feels in wind and onboard movement. Matt 2 Likes
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #22 – April 01, 2017, 12:17:55 am Quote from: HiLola - March 16, 2017, 07:28:55 pmAwesome pic, Ken! It reminds me of a camping trip we made to Great Basin NP last year. We were camping in a 24' trailer at a site that was a bear to get leveled with my wood blocks. The day after we arrived, a big class A backed into the very unlevel site across from us and we watched in amazement as an elder gentleman leveled the thing, ending up with both front tires swinging in the breeze much like yours!It's unfortunate that LDs do not have room for longer levelers, instead, being limited to short cylinders, which equal a short lift, even with kick-down cylinders. In many off-level situations, you must craw under the rig and stack blocks, under the pads, to provide the extra lift needed.Take a look at Ken's photo, zoom it and you will see blocks, placed under the front pads.Some campgrounds need or require boards under each ram to prevent sinking into soft ground or damaging the paved surface.The point is while levelers are wonderful for the who are physically limited, there are situations that will still require some physicality or require moving to a more level spot.If LD ever goes through a full redesign, something that could happen after the E450 is replaced, providing space in each corner of the coach, for longer hydraulic cylinders and large pads, would allow for a very useful leveling system that would seldom require blocks or plywood sheets.LDs were designed back in the days before levelers and have no provisions for their installation or for longer cylinders. Many Class As and DPs include them as part of their initial design and are installed as standard equipment.That is a beautiful shot of Mt. Whitney. Sad to hear of harassment by the BLM rangers, the Alabama Hills have been one of our hidden favorites, when not camping with groups at Tuttle Creek. I need to stop at the Visitor Center during one of our Sierra trips, this summer, to see what the official policy is now.. With more people taking up semi-permanent residence on the public lands, exceeding the maximum stay regulations, any RVer, boondocking in the wilds, can be subject to questioning and pressure to 'move on'.Most cities are seeing an increase in people living on the streets, in RVs. Los Angeles just put into effect new regulations pertaining to parking of RVs on public streets, pushing overnight parking into commercial and industrial zones. Larry
Re: Automatic Leveling System Reply #23 – April 01, 2017, 11:56:36 am Larry, you are absolutely right. I had 4x4 wood cribbing under the pads.I don't need them often, but when there is a site that I REALLY want, sometimes they make all the difference.As to using the Alabama Hills, if I were passing through again, I would call and check about the regulations. As I said, I was at a spot that was really a trailhead, not a campsite. It was not a busy trailhead like the one for the Mobius Arch. During my one day stay, I did not see any other vehicles parked there except for the Ranger, but I did see a trailhead sign and walked a bit of the trail. If someone DOES check with the Rangers, it would be useful to hear what they have to say. It is a really nice place to stay.Ken F in NM
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