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Topic: How much rust is a problem? (Read 560 times) previous topic - next topic
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How much rust is a problem?
I just had a look at a 1987 LD that seemed pretty decent in nearly all respects--zero leaks (owner described maintenance to keep it that way and and no musty odor backed it up) and everything operational, except the underside and some components have a fair amount of rust on them.

How much rust is a dealbreaker? (Or, would be for you personally?)

Are there solutions for it?

I have a gut feeling this one's got too much rust, especially with that pipe that appears to be split. But I'd really appreciate further input on it so I can get a feel for this issue in general as I shop for my LD.

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #1
I have a gut feeling this one's got too much rust, especially with that pipe that appears to be split. But I'd really appreciate further input on it so I can get a feel for this issue in general as I shop for my LD.

I would listen to your gut.
I see too many potential problems, the rust being only one of them.
If it was so well taken care of, why is there so much untreated rust?
I wouldn't walk away, I would run.

If you insist on buying an antique LD, buy a 1991 or later, it will have fuel injection and a four-speed overdrive transmission, both good things to have .
Instead of asking us to remotely evaluate a highly used LD, you need to find someone local who knows RVs and drivetrains.
There are hundreds of things that can go wrong in a 25+ year old RV, LD or any other. Many problems are very hard to see or detect, a trained eye is a lot better plus not having an emotional impairment. The desire to buy can lead you in to some deep mistakes.
Yes, 'little ' problems can be fixed but know that RVs are very expensive to repair, compared to cars, unless you have the skills, tools and place to do it.
There have been a few here who have brought old rigs only to find the repair costs will be much more than the resale value. Only the local public TV station benefits in such a situation.
A few hundred dollars spent in inspection can save you many  thousands. Even if you find a old LD, in good shape, many spend $4000-5000 to rehabilitate them, even more if serious engine or transmission problems are found.
Get it inspected.

If you plan of living in it, having a rig in better shape is the objective. Whatever way you approach RVing, buying older or buying newer, it isn't going to be cheap.
Now if full timing, most decide after a while, they need a toad. Consider that when buying. The older Chevy 350 V-8 is underpowered and not capable of safely towing a car of any size.
It will cost about three thousand dollars to outfit a towable car.

Personally, if buying an old LD, it would be a 1999 or newer, so it had the improved 305-HP V-10. The V-10, with the four and five speed transmissions, have proved to be a very durable , a huge improvement over the earlier Chevy V-8s.

Happy hunting
Larry

Larry
2003 23.5' Front Lounge, since new.  Previously 1983 22' Front Lounge.
Tow vehicles  2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2001 Jeep Cherokee
Photo Collection: Lazy Daze

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #2
Instead of asking us to remotely evaluate a highly used LD, you need to find someone local who knows RVs and drivetrains.

My research had indicated that there were certain glaring problems that someone with a little know-how could spot to cross off a potential rig from the list before paying for it to be professionally inspected. That is the sort of thing I had hoped to get some assistance with.

I had been planning to have any rigs that passed my untrained, rudimentary inspection professionally inspected. Since used Lazy Daze are few and far between, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to find a professional in whichever area that rig is being sold in rather than one local to me.

I guess I misunderstood what this forum was about...I thought it was okay to ask questions that would help me complete more of the novice part of rig shopping. I'd rather not pay for every single rig I look at to be inspected.

Anyway thanks for the tips, I'll do my best!

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #3
Hi Bitty. A tough question really. Any motorhome can be totally restored with enough money and enough time. It depends on how much money and time you have available. The rust on the gas tank should be wire brushed to see if there are deeper pits in the metal under the surface rust. Any pit that could perforate through, and leak gasoline, would call for a new tank, or at least a clean one from a 'recycle' yard. (Not junk if you need one.) The corroded silver tank (pic #2) is the brake fluid reservoir. It doesn't look too bad considering the age, but the master cylinder underneath the rust looks scary to me. Master cylinders aren't too hard to replace, the fluid needs to be replaced anyway. Doing it yourself, not too hard if you've done it before. The view underneath near the hitch area was too close up for me to recognize it. The wavy stuff appears to be sprayed on undercoating. The actual rust didn't look that bad, but it's hard to tell from a picture how important it is. The 'split pipe' is an intentionally split exhaust pipe slipped over another section, adjusted and held in place by that short inch or so weld. Looks familiar, I'll have to look at my exhaust tomorrow morning, but it actually looks normal to me. If you are a pretty good mechanic, this all might not be that bad. As Larry said though, those series of years for the GM chassis, were under powered in my estimation. Belts were a problem, and taking care of carburetors has become a 'lost' art. I think Larry was trying to say that take the money you would have to spend on repairs, and buy a newer one in better shape. For Larry; the improved V-10 started in 2000. The first V-10's were in '97, '98, and '99. I've got the '99. The 2000 had a better exhaust manifold and more horsepower, but mine at least had more foot room for the passenger. I hope this helped a little, RonB and 'Bluebelle'  a 16 year old TKB that hasn't been on many salted roads.
RonB (Bostick) living in San Diego
Original owner of "Bluebelle" a '99 TKB

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #4
"I guess I misunderstood what this forum was about...I thought it was okay to ask questions that would help me complete more of the novice part of rig shopping. I'd rather not pay for every single rig I look at to be inspected."
----
It's definitely OK to ask questions; that's what this forum is about, and people are very willing to share their knowledge and experience. You asked, and you received detailed answers to your specific questions, sound advice, and suggestions for further research.  I don't understand why the answers were (apparently) disappointing?

There are quite a few used LDs advertised in the classified section of this board and on several RV classified websites; I'm sure there are more on dealers' lots and on Craig's Lists all over the country. The frog-kissing part of any search for a pre-loved rig is up to the prospective buyer; this can take time, working the learning curve, and may involve spending a bit to travel to inspect a potential buy. To help narrow your searches,  may want to set an initial price point (understanding that it's almost certain that additional cash will be required for repairs and replacements) and work from there. This site may help to determine the "specs" for LDs:

Changes by year

And, somewhere on this new board are links to files of asking prices for various models and years of LDs and a link to "The Lazy Daze Companion", a compilation of information from posts on many topics related to LDs; would someone please offer those links? Thank you.

This link will bring up a comprehensive check list for inspecting a used RV; it's generic, but certainly applicable to a used LD.

RV Inspection Checklist

Good luck with your search.

As ever, YMMV.

Joan





2003 TK has a new home

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #5
I guess I misunderstood what this forum was about...I thought it was okay to ask questions that would help me complete more of the novice part of rig shopping. I'd rather not pay for every single rig I look at to be inspected.

Bitty, it is fine to ask questions, but an assessment of a rig based on a few photos is impossible. For instance, your concern was rust, but the pic of the split exhaust pipe indicates another issue - this was not the result of rust. The pipe was split to make it larger so it could be crammed over the existing pipe. This is not the way it is done, and almost certainly would cause exhaust leaks. This is the sort of red flag that an on-site expert inspector would note as well as other things that do not show in a few random pictures. As Larry said, the first gut reaction you had was the one you need to trust. If the rig passes that, then you need to have a local knowledgeable expert to give a thorough inspection. There a many such here on the forum, but without the rig physically in front of them, that won't help.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #6
Bitty, it is fine to ask questions, but an assessment of a rig based on a few photos is impossible. For instance, your concern was rust, but the pic of the split exhaust pipe indicates another issue - this was not the result of rust. The pipe was split to make it larger so it could be crammed over the existing pipe. This is not the way it is done, and almost certainly would cause exhaust leaks. This is the sort of red flag that an on-site expert inspector would note as well as other things that do not show in a few random pictures. As Larry said, the first gut reaction you had was the one you need to trust. If the rig passes that, then you need to have a local knowledgeable expert to give a thorough inspection. There a many such here on the forum, but without the rig physically in front of them, that won't help.

Steve
But  the pipe itself is a very minor issue. 
But may be an indicator of other short cuts taken.

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #7
My research had indicated that there were certain glaring problems that someone with a little know-how could spot to cross off a potential rig from the list before paying for it to be professionally inspected. That is the sort of thing I had hoped to get some assistance with.

I had been planning to have any rigs that passed my untrained, rudimentary inspection professionally inspected. Since used Lazy Daze are few and far between, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to find a professional in whichever area that rig is being sold in rather than one local to me.

I guess I misunderstood what this forum was about...I thought it was okay to ask questions that would help me complete more of the novice part of rig shopping. I'd rather not pay for every single rig I look at to be inspected.

Anyway thanks for the tips, I'll do my best!
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #8


The question you asked was very much appropriate and the response you received was genuine. The "inspection" could save you a bundle of bucks!
Steve S.
Lazy Bones & Cedar
2004 30'IB (Island Bed)
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery
Live for the day!

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #9
I was asking about rust issues in general, not trying to obtain a comprehensive assessment of this particular rig. I put up the photos as examples so you'd know how much rust I was referring to, so I could learn about rust issues overall regarding ruling out this and future rigs from my search. Instead, I feel somewhat chastised by the misunderstanding that I was expecting you all to make a determination of the entire mechanical stability of this specific rig from a few photos.

My understanding from research was that two major issues--rust and leaks--are ones where walking away from an older RV is strongly advised without wasting any further time or money on pursuing the possibility. My question was simply: "How much rust? This much? How fixable is rust?"

I didn't presume that anyone on the forum would spend the time to help me assess anything specific to this rig aside from the rust, and I'm really surprised some of you did, thanks. I guess I'm accustomed to forums that operate more on-topic for specific issues. This will take some getting used to!

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #10
I was asking about rust issues in general, not trying to obtain a comprehensive assessment of this particular rig. I put up the photos as examples so you'd know how much rust I was referring to, so I could learn about rust issues overall regarding ruling out this and future rigs from my search. Instead, I feel somewhat chastised by the misunderstanding that I was expecting you all to make a determination of the entire mechanical stability of this specific rig from a few photos.

My understanding from research was that two major issues--rust and leaks--are ones where walking away from an older RV is strongly advised without wasting any further time or money on pursuing the possibility. My question was simply: "How much rust? This much? How fixable is rust?"

I didn't presume that anyone on the forum would spend the time to help me assess anything specific to this rig aside from the rust, and I'm really surprised some of you did, thanks. I guess I'm accustomed to forums that operate more on-topic for specific issues. This will take some getting used to!
Bitty, please understand that everyone was trying to help you in his or her own way. Hang in there and feel free to try us out with some more questions.
Chris
Formerly: 2002 30' IB

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #11
Bitty,
Please remember that sometimes we put our own tone/inflections into others written words where there may have been no intent to chastise etc... The way some people say things may not always be the way we speak but doesn't necessarily mean they are speaking down to us or chastising us.  I had this happen once when I was communicating with one of my son's teachers by notes back and forth...assumptions were made/"tone" was added by the person reading the note that wasn't supposed to be there...we cleared the air and all was good.  I'm not a LD owner "yet" though go with my mom in hers so not really able to help you on the rust issue other than if I saw it, I wouldn't buy it unless I had the money to replace every rusted thing.
Sherry

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #12
Good point, SherryB.  We've all probably experienced the inability of the internet/written missives to effectively communicate tone, on either the sending or receiving end.    :-[     I remember a while back Traxless thought he needed to apologize for something, though I never saw anything out of line that he'd written (actually, I enjoy his conversational writing style & references to DW's gentle nudging/redirecting on something--& miss his posts since they're out enjoying their new-to-them baby on their first extended journey).

Bitty, your questions have been entirely appropriate--especially for a newbie (I certainly still think of myself as one, 'cause there's so much I don't know).  I really appreciated your photos (I'm a very visual learner), & the detailed responses from Larry/Steve/RonB/Garry, because that helped me learn a bit about rust/maintenance issues/the mechanical innards/etc.  I'll never know as much as these & others have in their little fingers (that's why I refer to them as wizards, though I can see how the internet might give that an unintended pejorative tone), but every one of these discussions helps me learn something.  Also, please be assured that our moderators effectively address problematic behaviors that cross the line--there was once a condescending know-it-all plumber who was disinvited from the group because his responses were not in the spirit of helping others or fostering community (btw, I never said thx to the moderators who accomplished that   :)  ). 

 ...so, keep the pictures & questions coming.   :)

Lynne
LDy Lulubelle, Green '05 31' TB
Lilly, the 4-Legged Alarm

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #13
Bitty, this thread is two weeks old, so you may have gotten put off. I hope not. Better advice is not available online than right here, believe me!

On the question you asked, I would say the exhaust pipe is the least worry if I were looking at this rig. The rust on the brake cylinder would have me seriously concerned, and expecting replacement of that, and most of the rest of the brake system. The tank photo is not clear, but if that is more than surface rust, another replacement. There is another photo of the frame I can't make out.

You mentioned a budget, so these potential repair costs may put this one out of range? '87 is an old vehicle. I own a 92, and it is pristine, so I don't mind old, but I do hate dealing with rust.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #14
Paul, is that 2CV your toad?

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #15
I wish! It is one I saw a couple of weeks ago. Currently traveling in the land of quirky engineering. We don't haul a road, yet.
Paul
'92 Mid Bath

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #16
Bitty, this thread is two weeks old, so you may have gotten put off. I hope not. Better advice is not available online than right here, believe me!

On the question you asked, I would say the exhaust pipe is the least worry if I were looking at this rig. The rust on the brake cylinder would have me seriously concerned, and expecting replacement of that, and most of the rest of the brake system. The tank photo is not clear, but if that is more than surface rust, another replacement. There is another photo of the frame I can't make out.

You mentioned a budget, so these potential repair costs may put this one out of range? '87 is an old vehicle. I own a 92, and it is pristine, so I don't mind old, but I do hate dealing with rust.

Thanks, Paul. Still trying to get the hang of things around here.

$13K is my maximum budget, including any initial necessary repairs. My plan has been that if one looks good from what I can tell, get it inspected, factor in the estimated cost of important repairs and use that to haggle price to within budget or walk away.

Based on my research and what I've been reading here, I'm facing the very real possibility that I simply cannot afford a LD. Then again, I need some sort of RV, and anything less seems likely to require far more in repairs. Financial situation is tricky; SSI rules prevent me from having more than $2000 to my name, which prevents savings, but I'm still too disabled to reliably earn even $500/month working odd jobs so I have to stay on it for now. The 13K budget is courtesy of my boyfriend, who'll buy it and swap me for my current vehicle once we find a LD.

...if we find a LD. :/

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #17
"I need some sort of RV, and anything less seems likely to require far more in repairs."

Bitty, can your present vehicle tow a small trailer such as a Casita, Scamp, Boler or T@B? If so, and assuming your present vehicle is in good shape mechanically, you might want to shop for a small trailer. A decent trailer will cost you a lot less than a  decent motorhome, and you won't have all the engine/drivetrain/brakes issues to worry about and repair. Just a thought.
Andy Baird
2021 Ford Ranger towing 2019 Airstream 19CB
Previously: 1985 LD Twin/King "Gertie"; 2003 LD Midbath "Skylark"

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #18
"I need some sort of RV, and anything less seems likely to require far more in repairs."

Bitty, can your present vehicle tow a small trailer such as a Casita, Scamp, Boler or T@B? If so, and assuming your present vehicle is in good shape mechanically, you might want to shop for a small trailer. A decent trailer will cost you a lot less than a  decent motorhome, and you won't have all the engine/drivetrain/brakes issues to worry about and repair. Just a thought.

My present vehicle is a 2004 Toyota Sienna. The budget I have is only available provided I trade it away. :/

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #19
My present vehicle is a 2004 Toyota Sienna. The budget I have is only available provided I trade it away. :/


Bitty - Do you have any experience with RV'ing to speak of?  There is so much to learn, and it doesn't all come out of reference publications.  A physical handicap of any kind makes the situation of "doing it yourself" even more difficult, and professional help is very expensive.  An older model RV of any brand (even our beloved Lazy Daze units!) is much more likely to be problematic than a newer one, that goes without saying, but is something that must be considered.

Without knowing anything about your situation, may I suggest that you do a lot of YouTube watching in the coming months.  This will provide a wide variety of possibilities for instruction for you of the lifestyle.  Some make it work to their advantage, but others have a difficult time with one aspect or another.  It is definitely different from living in a static location in an earthbound home.

Recently a friend of mine was interviewed on her rig and lifestyle.  I have known her since before she became an RV'er, and is one of the most successful at it that I know of.  If you have the bandwidth, you might find it instructive to view the video, which shows how she lives in her RV.   She has a talented son who has built and installed some very nice things for her in the rig, and she has employed some very unique ideas about additional storage.

Her very well-written blog has a number of entries wherein she tells of the trials and tribulations of things that have gone wrong with her unit, and how she has managed them.  She includes a lot of pictures of problems that she has encountered, and how she solved them.  Reading back through her blog might prove useful for you. 

I have been in her rig, and it does look exactly as the video shows.  It does not seem cramped, but she is a tiny person, as is her dog.  With three of us in there, it was a little cramped, but for a loner, it is perfect.

Me and My Dog ...and My RV

This obviously is not an easy decision for you, but much caution is mandatory lest you become involved in something that becomes untenable for you. 

I'm sure everyone here wishes you the most success with finding and utilizing a rig that suits you and brings you much happiness.  ;->

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #20
Bitty - Do you have any experience with RV'ing to speak of? 

I've been full timing in various vehicles for 2 years now - 2 door vintage Corolla hatchback, full size 1986 Chevy G20 van, 2004 Ford Escape SUV and currently the minivan. Also when I was 9 years old my family bought a tiny Toyota Dolphin (shorter than our minivan!) and the FIVE of us piled in there for a 3 month trip coast-to-coast and back, packed in like sardines. It was fantastic. :) I also lived in a stationary 27 foot Airstream for about 9 years.

So while I don't have a lot of recent experience with RVing in the traditional sense, full-timing in small mobile spaces is definitely home to me. :)

While my minivan is fixed up fairly nice, the lack of shower, heat, cooking, and sufficient power to run a heating pad all significantly aggravate my medical condition and limit my treatment options. There's no doubt in my mind or my doctors' that an improvement in living situation would improve my health, potentially by a lot. Unfortunately severe noise and chemical sensitivities (life-threatening) prevent me from being able to share a living space with or close to others, so low-budget housing isn't an option. That leaves RVing.

Your concern about it being untenable for me is valid. It's been that way from the start, honestly. I moved into a vehicle back when I was still too ill to care for my own necessities without caregiver assistance--I was fleeing an even worse situation. That very first night I drove to the heart of the nearest big city where I knew not a soul and my master brake cylinder failed. Lucky for me I make friends fast.

As a lifestyle I routinely make possible what really shouldn't be, because I don't have a viable alternative. I've learned there are a few essential factors to making that work, and one of them is hope that things will get better. If I were to obtain a rig next week that runs, that I can cook in, stand up in, have heat in, shower in, and sit up in bed without hitting my head--that would inject oodles of hope into me that things definitely can improve! With an abundance of hope, there's practically no limit to what I can make happen. I would got to the moon and back to keep that rig running, and along the way recruit others to help me in my quest just as I support them in theirs.

Like I said, I'm beginning to realize that a LD might simply be outside my budget. I was hopeful since this is the largest budget I've ever had to work with for a vehicle, but if that's the case my LD dream will go on hold. I'm still looking at camper vans as well, knowing they'll be too small for comfort but could still be a step up. There are few things worse than a Seattle winter in a vehicle without heat; condensation soaks everything. This upcoming winter is my deadline.

In sum, I'm super adaptable and have no doubt a small LD would be a fantastic fit for me. My main concern at the moment is just whether or not I can swing it financially.

P.S. Thanks for pointing me to Barbara's blog, it looks like she and I frequent the same forum - cheaprvliving.com.

Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #21
Well it's a relief to know that you have experience in the field. So many *think* it is a good idea, but have no clue what is involved. Looks like you are *not* in that category, so congratulations on making it this far.

A camper van may very well be an interim answer for you. I have a Sportsmobile camper van that has everything you mention, apart from a shower. I can stand up in it, however, ONLY when the penthouse top is up. I lust for a full-time raised roof, toilet with a built-in black tank, and air conditioning! Ironically, the previous owner of this rig was a doctor in Seattle and a week-end and short-term camper with his dog, thus the lack of an air conditioner!

But the basic needs of cooking, sleeping and toileting are taken care of, and staying within the Thousand Trails Preserve system (or any campground) provides a lot of support systems. I've thought about this for myself on an "extended vacation" basis only, so not sure how it would work out for fulltiming.

With your perseverance, you should come up with a workable solution sooner rather than later. Best of luck with this! ;->

********************************

 
Re: How much rust is a problem?
Reply #22
As a lifestyle I routinely make possible what really shouldn't be, because I don't have a viable alternative. I've learned there are a few essential factors to making that work, and one of them is hope that things will get better. If I were to obtain a rig next week that runs, that I can cook in, stand up in, have heat in, shower in, ...There are few things worse than a Seattle winter in a vehicle without heat; condensation soaks everything. This upcoming winter is my deadline.

Although there is a lot you can do with the facilities and resources in a larger RV, bear in mind that those resources require regular recycling/replenishing - propane, water, waste, recharging batteries, etc. If you are used to using outside facilities, these are not concerns you have dealt with it would seem. Condensation is ALWAYS a concern in high humidity and low temps, even with a LD, and if you are mobile, the best solution is to head for drier, warmer climes in those seasons. I don't know what support you need for whatever your medical issues may be, but these are concerns other full-timing folks have already figured out while seasonally relocating, and the info is available.

Steve
2004 FL
2013 Honda Fit