High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

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High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

December 18, 2015, 11:41:45 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157662

Hi David. With the HPV22B turned to shore power, the panels output is disconnected from the batteries. Solar panels output is normally high, called open circuit voltage. The instant you start drawing power from the panels, that voltage will drop to a lower level. The HPV-22B is a MPPT controller, essentially a DC to DC converter that matches impedance from the best voltage and current for the panels, to the best voltage and current to charge your batteries. The normal open circuit voltage is about 22 volts, so it dropped to the 19 volts just running the HPV-22B. I suspect you used the battery disconnect, so they were out of the circuit. The HPV needs the batteries to maintain a reference voltage. Your HPV-22B is working fine. The only difference between the 22 and the 22B is the switch to disable charging the batteries from solar while you are plugged in and charging from the converter. Hope this helped, RonB

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #1 – December 18, 2015, 03:34:14 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157669

"Hi David. With the HPV22B turned to shore power, the panels output is disconnected from the batteries."

Yes, but as far as I know, the voltage reading on the HPV-22 is always connected to the batteries. In other words, if you're saying that the HPV-22 meter is displaying open-circuit panel voltage, I don't think that's correct.

I had an HPV-40--the HPV-22's big brother--fail last year, feeding disastrously high voltage (16.5 V!) to my AGM batteries. By the time I spotted the problem, they were irreparably damaged. That cost me about $1,400 in replacement batteries.

Thus it doesn't surprise me to hear that an old HPV-22 could go on the fritz in the way the original poster described, putting excessively high voltage into his batteries. I strongly recommend disconnecting that unit immediately, before the batteries are ruined, and replacing it.

Andy Baird

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #2 – December 18, 2015, 04:02:09 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157670

From: "andybaird@... [lifewithalazydazerv]"
I had an HPV-40--the HPV-22's big brother--fail last year, feeding disastrously high voltage (16.5 V!) to my AGM batteries. By the time I spotted the problem, they were irreparably damaged. That cost me about $1,400 in replacement batteries.

Did you come up with a fail safe system for next time?

thanks

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #3 – December 18, 2015, 08:17:16 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157673

"Did you come up with a fail safe system for next time?"

If you mean did I build a circuit that would turn on flashing lights and sirens when the battery voltage exceeded a preset limit... no.

But I ditched the HPV-40solar charging controller and replaced it with a Morningstar MPPT-45... then later switched to a Victron 100/50 with more sophisticated algorithms. It's connected to a Victron Color Control monitor panel that also gathers info from my Victron BMV-700 amp-hour counter. Eventually I may replace my ten-year-old PROsine inverter/charger with a Victron "Multi" inverter/charger that will do the same job, and also tie into the Color Control panel. It's really nice to be able to see everything in one place.

I've programmed appropriate voltages and limits into the 100/50. But any of this stuff could fail... no guarantees against that. I will say that it feels a lot better to have modern equipment from a company that answers emails to tech support than ten-year-old equipment from a company that no longer exists (Heliotrope). :-)

Andy Baird

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #4 – December 18, 2015, 09:01:03 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157674

"Did you come up with a fail safe system for next time?"

If you mean did I build a circuit that would turn on flashing lights and sirens when the battery voltage exceeded a preset limit... no.

No -I meant some sort of simple fail safe. I belong to an electronics forum. I will ask for simple ideas. I was thinking of a zener diode, and LED light.

Can you give me a few details

Max amps from solar system :

Max voltage from solar system:

Max allowed voltage to battery system:

thanks

(of course I will post the answers)

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #5 – December 18, 2015, 09:39:28 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157675

Andy,

I looked at the Victron, like you, I'm considering what to do when my Prosine 2000 retires in a puff of smoke. But what I replace it with wants to have the capability to charge LiFePO4 batteries, and it would be good if it had the specific capabilities to do cell balance etc.

From briefly reading their website, I could have overlooked it, but I didn't see anything in the sub 3,000 va size that addressed newer battery tech.

Thoughts on this?

bumper

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #6 – December 18, 2015, 10:10:44 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157676

Perhaps you could do it the other way round: ask the battery manufacturer for a solar regulator recommendation. I'm about to replace batteries and controller anyway, when I add another panel to my SOB.

Eric
[lifewithalazydazerv] wrote on 12/18/2015 7:39 PM:

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #7 – December 18, 2015, 11:38:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157678

"From briefly reading their website, I could have overlooked it, but I didn't see anything in the sub 3,000 va size that addressed newer battery tech."

I can see why you'd want to plan for lithium batteries sometime down the road. But for me, that's a l-o-n-g way off--I'm conservative about things like mega-expensive battery technology--so I didn't really look into that aspect of the Victron products.

Andy Baird

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #8 – December 19, 2015, 08:50:46 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157680

Andy and David, is there a correct answer to the question below about the HPV22B being connected or disconnected when turned to shore power? I have such a beast and would like to know.

Chris

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #9 – December 19, 2015, 09:51:32 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157681

"is there a correct answer to the question below about the HPV22B being connected or disconnected when turned to shore power?"

There are two issues here:

1. When on the "Shore Power" setting, is the HPV22B's output connected to the batteries?

2. When on the "Shore Power" setting, what does the HPV22B's voltage display show--battery voltage or solar panel voltage?

I think the answer to 1 is "no," and I think the answer to 2 is probably "battery voltage"... but I don't have an HPV22B, so I can't test this.

Anyone who has the HPV22B can easily find out the answer to question 2 by switching to "Shore Power" in the middle of the day when the sun is shining. If the voltage instantly jumps from 13-14 volts up to 16-18 volts, then the voltage reading is coming from the panels. I'd be surprised if that were true, but I suppose it's possible.

My guess is that the HPV22B's voltage display always reads battery voltage--not panel voltage--so if it ever shows a voltage above what your batteries can tolerate, it should be shut off immediately.

Andy Baird

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #10 – December 19, 2015, 11:36:03 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157683

Thanks, Andy.

Chris

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #11 – December 19, 2015, 12:29:45 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157685

"I looked at the Victron, like you, I'm considering what to do when my Prosine 2000 retires in a puff of smoke. But what I replace it with wants to have the capability to charge LiFePO4 batteries, and it would be good if it had the specific capabilities to do cell balance."

bumper

I have had inquiries about installing Lithium-iron batteries from a few LD owners.
Researching this, Victron is the only company I have found that offers a complete plug and play system.
The Quattro/Lynx combination will integrate with the rest of the Viltron line and can be monitored on the master Blue Power Panel (the same as what Andy is using).
This integration is common in marine electronics,

Everyone who's asked has been scared away because of the cost, it's astronomical.
I'm scared away by the cost and the newness of the technology and plan on giving this a few years to mature.

To those still interested, I recommend that they seek AM Solar's advice or buy one of their systems.

Larry

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #12 – December 19, 2015, 01:37:41 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157688

"The Quattro/Lynx combination will integrate with the rest of the Victron line and can be monitored on the master Blue Power Panel (the same as what Andy is using)."

Just to clarify: I have the Victron Color Control GX system monitor panel. The Victron Blue Power Panel that Larry mentioned is an older, less expensive monitor panel with similar functionality (as far as I can tell from the data sheet), but a smaller, monochrome display.

Either one will collect information from a variety of Victron products such as their BMV-700 series amp-counter battery monitors, solar charging controllers, and inverter/chargers. With the addition of a $30 Wi-Fi dongle, the Color Control GX will even send the information to a personal website that summarizes how the system is performing and lets you look at historical data in graphical format.

Victron's product line is extensive, and most of their products tie together nicely. This is not a cheap way to go, however. The Color Control GX runs around $575, and it's not useful unless you also have other Victron devices such as their BMV-700 battery monitor ($160), solar charging controller ($110 and up, depending on capacity), and so on. If you're on a budget, Victron is probably not the best choice. If you want a completely integrated system with the most advanced technology, they are worth a look.

Andy Baird

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #13 – December 20, 2015, 05:56:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157697

"There are two issues here:

"1. When on the "Shore Power" setting, is the HPV22B's output connected to the batteries?

"2. When on the "Shore Power" setting, what does the HPV22B's voltage display show--battery voltage or solar panel voltage?"

I have an HPV22B.

1. On a sunny day, when not plugged into shore power and the switch in the dry camping position, battery voltage is in charging range, around 14.2V. When switched to the "Shore Power" setting, the battery voltage goes down to around 13.4V and the batteries continue to charge slowly, so the output is indeed connected to the batteries. Looking at the HPV22B charging amps, they're usually pretty low on the "Shore Power" setting, but when I turn on a fan, for example, the charging amps reading goes up, so the panels are providing power to the fan, lights or whatever is running. When plugged into shore power, the output of the HPV22B (charging amps reading) is zero.

When the switch is on "Dry Camping" and the panels are getting full sun, the battery voltage is around 14.2 regardless of whether plugged into shore power or not and regardless of whether or not the batteries are fully charged. Overcharging occurs.

I'm not sure whether this is how it's designed to work or not, but it's how mine works. When dry camping, which is what I usually do, I have the setting on "Dry Camping" until the batteries are close to fully charged (per the Linklite battery monitor), then I switch to "Shore Power" in an attempt to keep my batteries from being overcharged.

2. The HPV22B voltage display is the battery voltage on either "Dry Camping" or "Shore Power" setting. (Reads the same as the battery voltage on my SeeLevel display.)

Nancy McKenna

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #14 – December 21, 2015, 08:02:13 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157700

On the HPV-22B, all the shore power/dry camp mode switch does, is change the charge point voltage from approx 13.2 (shore power), to 14.6 (dry camp). The panels and the batteries are always connected. Keep in mind, you can turn the entire system OFF from the front panel. While that does not physically disconnect solar from the system, it does prevent solar from contributing any energy.

The voltage displayed is always battery voltage, measured at the output of the HPV. You can optionally set it to display CURRENT either from the panels, or into the coach system. Keep in mind, the current reading is not an indication of the net flow out of the battery, It is only the net flow from the solar (which is what most folks are interested in).

What the HPV-22B does not do, is anything automatic, based upon state of charge. It is either pouring maximum amps into the system (dry camp), or maintaining a storage charge (shore power) based upon the position of the switch. With its MPPT feature, it uses the higher voltage from the panels (reducing the current) to efficiently maximize the energy available for the solar panels. But it does nothing automatic on the battery side.

Personally, I would love to have one of the Blue Sky 3000 units installed. But my vehicle spends most of its time connected to shore power, therefore I upgraded the power converter to one of the Progressive Dynamic 3/4 stage automatic models. The HPV-22B spends most of its life turned off. If I am in dry camp mode I manage the battery manually by flipping the switch. If that changes, or the HPV dies, I may convert to the Blue Sky later. If you spend a lot time dry camping, I can easily believe the automatic solar charging is more important.

-Dave '06 MB, Indianapolis

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #15 – December 21, 2015, 12:04:52 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157701

"Victron's product line is extensive, and most of their products tie together nicely. This is not a cheap way to go, however."

One thing that should be pointed out is the Victron battery monitor is much cheaper than the competitive Zantrex LinkLite. The BMV-700 cost less upfront, and doesn't require a $100 connection kit, as the LinkLite does.
The BMV-700 is also much easier to install, using a modular cord and plugs to connect the shunt to the meter instead of a dealing with a five tiny wires at each end. It cuts a good half hour of frustration and is less likely to have connection problems in the future..
AFAIK, from my experience, the Victron BMV-700 and the Zantrex LinkLite both have nearly identical functions and perform the same in actual usage.
Since Victron also sell solar controllers and inverter/chargers, at competitive prices, it is a good choice for those who want a fully integrated power system and are not afraid the cost.
With the right selection, it will also be ready when lithium-iron batteries become affordable.

Biggest downside to Victron is the lack of domestic retailers. Victron is a Dutch company and sell its products mostly overseas. There is limited online experience to draw from.
Xantrex, on the other hand, has been around for a long time and while the Prosine 2000 inverter/charger is an old machine, it still seems to be well built, there are a lot of them out there in boats and RVs.

Larry

Re: High indicated voltage on meter from solar panels

Reply #16 – December 21, 2015, 12:46:09 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157702

"Biggest downside to Victron is the lack of domestic retailers."

True, but some of their more popular products are available from Amazon... and PKYS, a marine retailer in Annapolis, MD, carries pretty much the whole Victron product line. And in my experience, Victron's technicians do answer support questions pretty promptly, and in good English. :-)

Andy Baird

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