Lazy Daze Owners' Group

Toilet in mid-bath

November 20, 2015, 12:30:54 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157073

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Something has happened, but don't know if I have a disaster in the making or a problem that I just don't know the solution for.  In my 2011 Mid bath, it has always had the two drains/bi-value (what is the term I am looking for? ? ? ? ) right below the ring. Now I have one.

Last night, it sounded like water was backing up in my black tank (tank was emptied on Tuesday), so I let water back up to see what happened. Sure enough, but it then "flushed" without me doing anything else. That is when I noticed the bivalve or whatever it is called had disappeared. Now it drops down about 8-12" before curving to the right.  I do not see any separation, leaks.

Has the shroud dropped off, obviously the duo valves/drains have dropped into the tank.. funny, I just can't remember what is normally there and of course, I am not familiar with the terminology... can anyone guide me on this one?

Melinda 2011 27' MB

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #2 – November 20, 2015, 11:21:44 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157076

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After R&R my toilet 3 times to fix a leak that was a bad vacuum breaker, I would pay an RV shop to do it next time. Not fun. If the Sealand unit breaks again I will replace it with a Thetford. It sounds like your toilet is going to need surgery to repair, which usually means removing it. I would shop for a qualified RV shop to resolve. When I had issues I called Sealand and they overnighted the parts I needed directly to me. They can tell you the closest qualified dealer.

bobmoore14

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #4 – November 21, 2015, 11:06:18 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157080

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Melinda, you lost me.  I don't know what you are describing as once having had two, now having one.  Let me walk you through the terms and components.
 Inside the bowl, looking straight down, the bowl should end in an opening about 3" in diameter.  In that opening should be a black ring formed by one of the two neoprene seals.  These seals are about 9" in diameter and are stacked, one above the other, forming a seal between the toilet bowl and the mounting pedestal and flush dome.
 The mounting pedestal is a black plastic component that is mounted between the raised platform and the base of the toilet.  It holds two external components - the flush pedal, to the left looking at the toilet, and the water connection lines.  The flush pedal operates a valve that puts water into the bowl and the hand-held flush wand.  When the pedal is pushed down, the valve allows water to flow up two hoses.  One plugs into the back of the toilet by a friction fit and directs rinse water to the sides around the toilet bowl.  The other directs water to the hand held spray for manual rinsing.
 The mounting pedestal is connected to the toilet by several pieces of equipment.  The outermost is a trim piece of thin beige plastic that splits in two at the flush valve, allowing its removal.  It comes out as one piece.  Below the trim cover is a stainless steel band clamp with a nut that tightens and loosens it located at the back of the toilet.  The band clamp sits in a shallow groove about half an inch wide on a heavy plastic ring.  That ring is in two pieces.  It locks the toilet to the pedestal base, and when the clamp is removed, it comes out in two pieces.
 The only other external component is a trim piece that covers the flush pedal and valve.  It is held in place by a few screws.
 Back to the inside - As you look down into the bowl, below that black ring which is the neoprene seals, is the flush dome.  It is plastic and the visible part looks like the surface of a ball pressing against the underside of the neoprene seals.  It can be pushed so it rotates on its shaft and locks in the open position, which would leave you looking down into the drain leading into the black water holding tank.  If it broke off, once again, you would be looking down into the black water tank.  That flush dome is the only thing that closes the top of the black water tank from the bathroom.
 That's it for everything inside.  Outside, you have two dump valves.  The forward one is for the black tank and the rear-ward one is for the grey tank.  If one of them is missing, that is a big deal, as the tank contents will drain, unobstructed, onto the ground rather than staying in the tank.  The dump valves have covers that twist on and off, which you open when you dump.  Behind those covers is a flat plastic blade that rides in a track so, when you pull the handle, it opens and drains the tank above it.  Behind that blade is just an open tube leading up into the black tank or to the right to the grey tank.
 OK, that is it for the parts.  What did you once have two of, that you now have one of?  I don't know of two drains or valves below a ring.  The flush dome is one drain below a ring, but you never had two of them.  The dump valves outside are not below any rings, but you should have two of them.
 Once I understand just what you are seeing, or not seeing, I may be able to help.

Ken F in NM

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #6 – November 21, 2015, 11:41:43 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157084

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Maybe Ken's fine explanation of MB toilet construction could find its way to the "Companion"?

Joan

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #8 – November 21, 2015, 12:35:06 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157088

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Ok, appreciate all the responses. I tried to take a picture of this situation, but I am only one person - and holding a flashlight, foot on the pedal to open the valve and taking a picture - its just not happening. Laughing here. So will try to explain a wee bit better with Ken's help.

This issue is not external. And quite frankly, I'd be surprised if it pertained to how it is bolted to the floor or to the holding tanks.  I have never been able to see into my black tank in my mid-bath. When the 3" diameter opening is opened by pressing the external pedal and gets water flowing - I am aware of the seal around the opening, but not what you say is 9" diameter. In fact, can't see what you describe as a "ball pressing against the underside of the neoprene seals". There no ball like element whatsoever. I can not identify the neoprene 9" seals.

Then there is the plastic white ring (is this the flush dome) that is under the opening & sat upon the drains (2 that were connected but split and bent at what appeared to be a 45º angle each way going away from the opening, not one straight down).  Right now, there is only 1/2 of the white ring visible. The 2 drains are now one.  Always thought it was odd they had this on the mid-bath and not the other models. But it is what it is.

If indeed its the flush dome that has broken off... and you say my black tank would be open to the bathroom - that has not happened. And I still can not see into my black tank.

Melinda, who did not want to become intimate with her toilet... but if you insist, will learn. Smiling here.

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #10 – November 21, 2015, 12:48:56 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157090

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Happy its not a disaster in the making...  but am confused by what valve you are referring to that could be stuck open. The only opening (but I guess that is not considered a valve?) is the one in which opens when I press the outside level to get water.

An unexpected education once again... laughing here.

Melinda

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #12 – November 21, 2015, 01:35:03 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157093

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Melinda,

I would go for the Thetford for 2 reasons:

It is far more common in RV's thus parts availability is better and cheaper. In a marine application I will admit the Sealand is a better choice.

Most RV shops are more familiar with the Thetford. Yes it's plastic but I have never heard of one breaking the housing. If you have to remove it less work and sweat. A 3rd benefit for me is it's much lighter. In my overloaded E-350 chassis anything I can do to reduce weight is a plus, short of giving up my ice cream and pizza.

I don't know what's wrong with your Sealand but it should be repairable short of some manufacturing defect. When I repaired mine I got the parts overnighted to me from Tweety's RV. Good customer service and shipping was reasonable. I wish you good luck in getting yours repaired.

bobmoore14

Happy Thanksgiving to all.
Goldfield Nevada for a few...

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #14 – November 21, 2015, 02:05:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157095

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2014 TK here.  We've never hit anything although we hold our breaths when we have to do something where the driver's tire is off the curb and the rear is still on it (like when we have to turn it around in our driveway).  The biggest problem we have is when the dump site is slightly elevated.  The terminal valve hangs so low that sometimes it is on level or even below the the dump hole.  It makes for some creative dumping.

Syndi 2014 24' TK Super Flea

BTW, Mid-baths have two holding tank drain valves, one for each tank.---Just like the TKs until the last couple of model years when the TK's previously separate (and snugged up close to the rig frame) black and grey tank outlets were joined into one. The termination valve on the new TK looked vulnerable to getting hung up with possible less-than-pleasant results; the pipes/valve are angled down to permit better draining, and the configuration looked pretty close to the ground.
Have owners of 2014 and 2015 TKs experienced any problems with "valve snag"? Joan

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Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #16 – November 21, 2015, 02:29:17 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157097

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OK, focusing in on the flush dome, it is a curved plastic piece that rotates open when you press the flush pedal, opening the way into the drain to the black tank.  It is an off white color.  If it is properly positioned and adjusted, when closed, it will prevent water from flowing from the toilet into the black tank by pressing against the underside of the seals.  In the closed position, it would look like a convex off-white curved surface, circular where visible, and the seals are best viewed at an angle, and form a black ring a fraction of an inch in size between that convex, circular flush dome and the bottom of the toilet bowl.  (The 9" seals are only viewable in that size if you remove the toilet so you would not be able to see them.  My purpose in describing the size was, if one had come apart somehow, and you saw this big, flat, black disk, that would tell us what you saw.)
 I just looked into mine with the flush dome all the way open.  Looking straight down, I can see the underside of the flush dome, then a straight drop to a turn to the right.  There are some mechanisms to each side of the flush dome, involved in keeping it aligned and in place.
 Key questions - is water staying in the toilet bowl, or are you looking straight down into the hole with nothing blocking it?  Is water flowing into the bowl with the pump on but without pressing on the flush pedal?

Ken F in NM

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #18 – November 21, 2015, 04:00:13 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157099

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So I suppose one of the questions is can the off-white dome seal break off and fall into the black tank?

Ed & Margee Fort Worth

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #20 – November 21, 2015, 08:39:10 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157107

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Ed and Margee, the flush dome is plastic.  I suppose it could break off and drop into the black tank, but I have never heard of that happening.  In any event, based on the back and forth, it sounds as if Melinda's flush dome is intact and the issue relates to something below the flush dome.  I can't wait to hear what that might be or might have been.

Ken F in NM

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #22 – November 22, 2015, 12:15:21 am

Yahoo Message Number: 157110

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As I have written privately to Chris and Ken - I promise to post my findings on this odd situation.  I am presently seeking out a head lamp to try to take photos, have ordered one, but someone should have one I could borrow.  I have also made an appointment for Blue Sky RV guy (out of Sequim, WA)  to come check out the problem. He can't come until November 30th though.

Will keep everyone posted...

Melinda

Re: Toilet in mid-bath

Reply #24 – November 22, 2015, 11:27:46 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 157121

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"I am presently seeking out a head lamp to try to take photos"

Most cameras, and nowadays even most phones, have built-in flashes. I take it yours doesn't?

Andy Baird